Owner Not Operator: Why He Said No to $6 Million (with Steve Rolle)

If you built your business but still feel like everything runs through you, this episode will change how you see your role. 

My guest, Steve Rolle, a serial entrepreneur and investor whose businesses have generated over $100 million in combined sales, breaks down the exact shift from owner not operator that let him turn down a $6 million acquisition offer just two years into the business he built. 

Steve walks us through his four-part framework for understanding the real levers of growth: product, profit margin, distribution, and customer acquisition, and why most business owners stay trapped under the hood instead of getting behind the wheel. 

If you're ready to stop being the bottleneck and start owning the business you built, this conversation hands you the mindset and the math to get there.

Books Mentioned

• The Almanac of Naval Ravikant by Eric Jorgensen.

Guest CTA

Connect with Steve at steverolle.com, where you can pre-order or order his new book, The Future You Choose, or find him on social channels as @RollewithSteve.

I want to invite you to check out the Committed Mastermind, a community I help lead along with world-class leaders like JC and Karen Hite, Vinnie Fisher, and Jonathan Mast, plus incredible mentors like Dr. Gary Chapman, author of The 5 Love Languages, and many others.

This is for entrepreneurs who want to build a thriving business without sacrificing their faith, their family, or their health.

Check out the Committed Mastermind at https://committedmastermind.com/

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Check out Dr. William Attaway's new show, The Appreciation at Work Podcast!  

Join Dr. William Attaway on the Catalytic Leadership podcast as he shares transformative insights to help high-performance entrepreneurs and agency owners achieve Clear-Minded Focus, Calm Control, and Confidence.

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Transcript

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Dr. William Attaway 1:21

It is an honor today to have Steve Roll on the podcast. Steve is a serial entrepreneur, investor, and former U.S. service member whose businesses have generated over a hundred million dollars in combined sales. He built and scaled brands in the Amazon and e-commerce space, turned down a seven-figure acquisition offer within two years of launch, and later led that company into an eight-figure merger by age 33. Steve specializes in building companies that can run profitably through strong systems, processes, and teams. And he now helps brand owners take control of their Amazon presence, protect their customer experience, and scale with better margins. Steve, I'm so glad you're here. Thanks for being on the show.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

William, thank you for having me on. It's a pleasure to be here.

Intro 2:17

Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed to help leaders intentionally grow and thrive. Here is your host, author, and leadership and executive coach, Dr. William Attaway.

Dr. William Attaway 2:35

You know, I hit a couple of the high points there, but I would love for you to share some of your story with our listeners, particularly around your

Welcome Steve Roll

Dr. William Attaway 2:42

journey and your development as a leader. How did you get started?

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Hmm. You know, I was born and raised in the DC area, homeschooled all the way through 10th grade, 11th and 12th grade, I actually went to school for the first time. And I had no direction of what I wanted to do with my life at that point. I had not been exposed to very much, but I knew I wanted to do something big. And like everybody else who was entrepreneurial when they were younger, I had these lawn care customers and I was shoveling snow. I was definitely a hustler, but I didn't really understand business. But I knew that I wanted to have a lot of money and I wanted to be a leader and I wanted to grow. And I didn't know where to start. And luckily, I was lucky enough to have people around me who pushed me in the right direction. The leadership standpoint, that really started for me in the military. And I was lucky enough to receive an ROTC scholarship because I couldn't afford to go to school. That got me an engineering degree and a lot of leadership training throughout that time, both in college and then going through the Army's rigorous training for young leaders. You pop out of college and in the Army's training. On day one, you're in charge of 50 people. You've got a $40 million property book, and you grow up really, really fast because you just have that much responsibility

Growing Up Fast In Army Leadership

SPEAKER_01 3:57

that's just given to you. And there's no way for you to fail. You aren't allowed to fail. I started my businesses while I was still in the military. The first two years, didn't have any time. I'm working 16 hours a day, learning to be a leader, learning to lead people, and leading jobs that I didn't know how to do, which was great practice for what I would later do in my businesses where I was the manager, but I didn't know how to do the actual tasks myself. But on the back end of that, I got a job working for the Corps of Engineers while still in the Army. Civilian agency, I'm a green suitor, so I show up in an army uniform every day, but I'm surrounded by civilians. And all of a sudden, I'm working eight hours a day. I have all this extra time and I'm used to working 16. I just finished my master's degree in engineering management, so I kind of had some exposure to business, and I was hungry to figure out what am I going to do after the military, all this free time. And I looked for I had both interest and opportunity, which at the time, my wife was getting started on Amazon, helping out her parents to sell little soaps and shampoos for hotel rooms on the Amazon platform. She was selling about $20,000 a month. And I thought, man, I would love to help you out with this. Like, would you mind if I just came in and she's like, yeah, I'll get out of the way? She didn't want to do it anymore. So I popped in there, and that actually began what turned into just a side hustle opportunity. By the time I left the military, I was already making $30,000 a month in profit in that endeavor. Two years later, I then started another business doing the same thing, but specific for Airbnb owners, where we repackaged these goods that were made for hotels and big case packs, like 500 bar soaps, 500 shampoos, down into the Airbnb size, 10 soaps, 10 shampoos, 10 lotions, 10 body wash, enough for one stay for one guest just to have a small one in the little room in your house for that Airbnb. And that business blew up. That's the one that you mentioned in the intro that two years into it, we were under contract to sell that business for $6 million just two years in. And I look at that now and you say, man, how is it possible to go from a business is so hard. How's it possible to go from zero to a six million dollar offer for a business? And when you break that down, because people think, okay, well, how do I do the exact same thing?

Amazon Side Hustle To Real Profit

SPEAKER_01 6:10

It is so much not about just saying, I'm gonna go start a business and I'm gonna go learn everything from scratch. I took the skills that I learned while I still had my day job on somebody else's dime that I learned where I understood the market. I knew how much people were willing to pay for, I knew where the problems were. And on day one, when I started my business, I knew exactly what to sell, how much to charge for it, where the customers were, how to acquire those customers. And it enabled me to make money on day one and then be up for sale for six million dollars two years later that I eventually turned down. But that formula of understanding the entire business, people miss that when they say, I want to be a business owner. Then they go and do something that they've never done before, never understood before, and they wonder why things aren't working. And so my story is very much about being positioned for the right place at the right time and being able to take care of that opportunity. But it all started with a military background, an engineering background, and a homeschool background for the bit.

Scaling An Airbnb Supply Brand

SPEAKER_01 7:06

My goodness, what a journey.

Dr. William Attaway 7:10

You know, I often say there's no wasted experience. And I think about each piece that you described there and how all of it plays in and how there's things that it, you know, you would not be who you are today, the leader you are today, were it not for all of those experiences.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

That is so true. We think sometimes that people are successful, and it's all these things stood in their way. These obstacles were in their way, and yet somehow they found success. I've learned recently as I think and ponder on how life has worked out for me, we are successful because of the obstacles that stood in our way that we had to overcome, rather than successful. Oh, and there's all those things that are over here that you had to get through and navigate. And so when I hear people say, well, I'm at a disadvantage and I don't have the same head start that so-and-so had, and I don't have millions of dollars and access to capital, and I go, good, you have more to overcome. What an opportunity for you to overcome more than the average person in order to still make it. We live in this wonderful country in America where anybody has potential to raise their status up through hard work, repetition, learning skills, and then learning how to leverage themselves and other people along with technology. There's no other country on earth that is my story becomes possible and born into a lower class family. How do I get where I am today? It only happens in America.

Obstacles, Agency, And Resilience

SPEAKER_01 8:31

That's the only place it happens. And so you start off with this gratitude and say, I'm so thankful for the obstacles that stood in my way because they made me successful by going through them. And the mindset that it takes to look at obstacles and say, those aren't holding me back. That's a path for me to go through. What an opportunity for me to have to go through those things in order to find success. And people should change their mindset about how they think about the things that are holding them back, as this is what I get the opportunity to overcome. You shift your mindset on that, all of a sudden you have agency and say, okay, I get to affect that. Yes, that stands in my way. Do I go through it? Do I go around it? I know I'm gonna find a way, and it may not be evident on day one, but what's step number one? Let me start finding a way through this obstacle and a way past this obstacle. And that's where you start to build the confidence that says, okay, I went after that. I didn't know how to do it on day one. Then, four days into it, after hitting my head against the wall, I figured it out. Okay, what else am I capable of figuring out? If I can do that, let me take on a bigger task and a bigger goal. And it may not be evident on day one again, but I now have confidence that I can figure those things out by just hitting my head against the wall, going around it, going behind it, going through it, and finding a way to get that done. And that's how you go from being someone who has zero business experience to taking on a goal of selling $100 million. That is not a line that happens without lots of failures along the way and obstacles that you have to say, I don't know how to do it, but I know I know how to figure it out. I have confidence because I've done it and I've proven that to myself time and time again.

Dr. William Attaway 10:10

You know, to listen to you talk about, you know, where you started and where you came from. To get to a point where you have a six million dollar offer on the table two years into a business, that had to feel pretty amazing. And then you turned it down. It's unbelievable. And then you turned it down. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

Like walk me through that. What was that like? When you start your business and you're the operator and you're doing everything, many people start off and they're passionate about all of those things. And then they get themselves to a point where they stop having passion for the mundane, repeatable tasks they do every single day. And so I had this desire to just be done with the business because it was me and it was one other guy. It was a company of two. And we were making over a million dollars a year, and we were getting a 6X multiple on that in 2021 when we were up for sale. But we were selling because of a couple reasons. Number one, we wanted to be done. Number two, we were scared. We were scared that what we had wasn't repeatable, that we didn't really understand what made it work, why it was working, how to continue to grow it and scale. And we're like, we need the pros to come in here and do this for us. And over the six months that we were up for sale, and I'm I'm the sales guy. So I'm on the phone talking to these droops all day long. He's still operating the business. And during

Turning Down A 6 Million Exit

SPEAKER_01 11:31

that six-month period, we realized, you know, all these things that we hate doing in the business, we could hire people to come. We have all this cash flow and they could become specialized at that thing, and we can turn this thing into a machine. But we also spent that six months learning, okay, how did we require all these customers? Can we do more of that? Like, are these levers in our control? See, every business has levers inside of it. And in the four-part system that I use, thinking about, you know, your product, your profit margin, your distribution, customer acquisition, those are all engines a business owner has to build and understand the levers that control them. And even though it seems like you've gone up a straight line where you go from zero to millions of dollars in sales, and you're like, how did this even happen? When you break it down into the components of an engine, and then you hire someone and bring them in and train them to run that engine for you, all of a sudden, you're not so concerned that the engine is just going to stop one day because you understand all the components of it. And so in that six-month period, what we get these amazing offers. And by the way, we thought the business was worth a million bucks. That's what we thought. Uh, we got appraised before we went to sell and an appraise for 3.2 or 3.8 million, somewhere around there. Two months later, we have competitive offers that get us to 6x of our profit, a million bucks, for a $6 million offer. That was the base price. There was also an earnout on the back end of that that looked like it would be another $6 million on top of that, too. So we're thinking, oh my goodness, it's so much money. Like, look what we built. We better get rid of this thing while we still can. Going through due diligence, as we're under LOI with that company, the letter of intent that their promise to buy us, non-binding. We realized

Levers, Systems, And Repeat Customers

SPEAKER_01 13:16

we understand this engine in a way that the buyer doesn't. The plans that they have for the business, we don't think it's actually going to grow it. We think they're actually going to run it into the ground. Go, man, the opportunity in front of us, look what we've done. And we realized this way, and this was the big differentiator for us that gave us so much safety. We started tracking the sales to see where they were coming from. And we realized 70% of our sales were came from repeat customers who were buying from us every 60 to 90 days. We had already paid to acquire those customers when it was super cheap. Nobody else was bidding on ads on Amazon the way that we were. We acquired thousands, tens of thousands of customers, and 70% of our revenue was coming from that group. So then we understood that our customer acquisition cost, the ads that we were spending, that was just for new people who were going to come into the engine, and then all of a sudden, we're going to retain so many of them, and our revenue will continue to increase over time. The moment that we understood our numbers, that's when we had the confidence to say, we're not selling this thing. We're going to continue on. We're going to build the engines, we're going to hire the people, and we're going to control these levers. When we didn't know the levers existed, we were terrified. And there's a lot of business owners out there that don't understand where the levers are for growth and stability inside their business. But when you sit down to build your SOPs, your standard operating procedures, you find where people fit into the mix who can join your company and join you in your growth, and you have a good understanding of how you grow, how you plateau, and what happens for things to go down. Okay, how do we avoid going down and do more of the things that help us to grow? Employ the people that make that happen, build the engine, understand the customer acquisition, where the revenue is coming from. We went from having a really scary business to all of a sudden having a wow, this business is very safe. It's very stable, and we know how to grow it further from here. That was the reason we turned down the $6 million offer and decided, not a chance, we're going forward with this. And so we decided instead to vertically integrate ourselves with our manufacturer, and we did the merge that you mentioned in the beginning that we went through, where now our manufacturing was tied to us, which was a huge distribution channel on Amazon that was still growing. And now we're also tied to the company that also sells through distribution to hotels as well. And so through that vertical integration, we further made safety inside the business where we thought, man, we can operate this thing for a decade or more. And no one's going to pay us 10 years of profits, but we can sit here and get 10 years of profit and still own all the stock. And that was the reason that we did it. It didn't even feel scary when we said no to the millions of dollars that we could have received. It actually felt like an opportunity and a rebirth and a new beginning because for the first time in our lives, we were now in control. And having gone through that now, I see so many business owners who aren't in control, who don't understand the levers in their business. And I say, man, six months of you really buckling down and getting a grasp on this, this won't be the liability that you think it is anymore. All of a sudden, you'll understand how to grow it, what you can do, and you won't want to sell your business either, because everyone thinks I want to build a business and sell it for millions of dollars. And I say, well, what are the parts of the business that you want to get rid of? Like, why are you selling it? If you cash flow and the business is going well, and everyone has these things that, oh, I'm tired of doing this and I'm so stuck in the weeds. And I go, well, those are actually fixable issues. If we got you out of the weeds and got you focused on doing the things that you really enjoy and doing the owner work instead of the operator work, the owner work is deciding what direction we go in, where do we take on risk? How do we employ people? How do we grow leaders? The operator work is all those engines that you build of like sales and acquisition and customers and customer service, things that most entrepreneurs don't really enjoy that much, but they're stuck in the operator realm. We got to get them moved up to the owner realm where they're making decisions and crafting the business. And most owners really enjoy being up here in the owner realm. They don't like being in the operator realm and say, okay, that's where you employ technology and people and leverage so that you can have your employees implement your vision as the owner and you're no longer the operator. And then do you still want to sell your business? Okay, guess what? If you do, you've made your business that much more valuable to an acquirer because the acquirer wants to be the owner. They don't want to be the operator. They want the operators to stay exactly where they're at with continuity of management. And so either way you flip it, either you made a business that cash flows that you enjoy being a part of, or you now have a sellable asset that's more valuable because you became the owner instead of the operator. You know, that is so powerful.

Dr. William Attaway 18:04

And you're exactly right. I I talked to so many leaders, so many business owners who have built a business, but they've built it where they're at the center of the spider web. Everything connects to them. Well, you haven't built a sellable asset then, because you can't sell yourself. Right? What you're describing is a way to do this in a healthy way. You have a new book, The Future You Choose. Is that what you talk about in this book? Are you talking about your story, what you've learned, and how people can build this type of business?

SPEAKER_01 18:38

That's right. And I appreciate you bringing that up. Um, this is my book, The Future You Choose, is going to be out in July. Depending when this episode airs, it may already be out and live on Amazon and elsewhere. In this book, which I wrote for the aspiring nine to fiver, it's me when I was still in the military, but I was hungry for more. I wanted more, and I didn't really know how to go out and change my mindset from the poor kid who grew up in the DC area to the business owner. Part one of this is all about changing your mindset to reject the future that you didn't choose, that your environment chose, that your parents chose for you, that others chose for you, and your own expectations of what your life limits can be, then decide that you want more, you want to be in control. Whether you're gonna be a nine-to-fiver or own a business, that's possible for you to be in control. That's part one. Part two is all about what I just discussed here. You want to start a business from the very get-go that becomes either sellable or a business that you want to stick with, that you want to continue to enjoy for the long term. How do you do that? And I use the examples from my life from starting over a dozen businesses where most of them were not successful, and then the one that was successful of how you start these businesses the right way so that you don't become the bottleneck. You don't stay now. When you start your business, business of one, you will be the bottleneck, you will be the operator of everything, but you have to start letting go of those

The Future You Choose Framework

SPEAKER_01 20:01

things and build a business that's gonna be scalable in the future. And that requires you to be able to hire people, use technology. And we talk about that in part two of the book. Part three is all about hey, once you get there, what's your life gonna look like on the back end of it? What's your financial freedom look like? What's your business freedom look like? Too many business owners leave a nine to five because they say, I'm not free. I don't own my time, I want to work for myself. And then you see them in their business with more in bondage and less freedom than they had when they were in their nine to five. They're more stuck. And as the business continues to grow because they keep themselves in the middle of the spider's web, they're more in bondage than they were when they had a nine to five when they had a job. And so, how do you avoid that? I talk about that in this book, so that you can keep yourself in the freedom mindset. You started the business to be in control. How do we make sure that you actually get there? And that comes from building systems and processes in people and never allowing yourself to continuously be the one making every single decision. How do we differentiate owner work from operator work and make sure? I love this analogy. When you start your business, it's like you're the mechanic who's building the engine of a car. You're under the hood every single day. You're the one who's turning wrenches. But if you never close the hood and get behind the wheel, you don't get to decide where that car goes. It just sits in a garage. Nobody ever sees it. Nobody even knows that it exists. And so for a successful business with a successful business owner, you got to be the one behind the wheel, not the one building the engine. And too many business owners never graduate from the mechanic to the one who's driving the car and deciding what direction we go in, where are we going to have impact? They're just under the hood, still building and still building. Oh, I'm going to launch this business here pretty soon. Uh, they're still building. And they're stuck inside of their business. They're stuck inside the garage. And so my goal is to help more people to get out of the mindset of being stuck in the garage, get them behind the wheel, going down the California coastline and enjoying driving their business forward as an owner instead of as the operator.

Dr. William Attaway 23:20

I love that. I love the focus on the mindset, the the focus on the agency that each one of us has instead of settling into the mindset of mediocrity, the mindset of just drifting into whatever comes along or whatever we were handed. I think so often people forget that we have agency. You and I get to choose. And that's what I love about your title, The Future You Choose. I can't wait to see the impact this is going to have.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

I'm definitely excited for it. You know, I wrote this for the me from years back when I started my business when I was young and I was aspiring. And there's a pathway for people to leave their nine to five and start a business in a safe way that doesn't involve jumping off of a cliff. What does that look like? And then how do you build that business slowly on the side while you still have your income? And people miss this. Your nine to five job can be the investor in your startup. You don't really need outside capital. If you live below your means, if you've got a safety net already built up before you start your side hustle, and then your side hustle is funded by your day job, that's a very stress free environment. And business is really hard as it is without having the extra stress of it having to make money on day one. I realize now after a dozen Bats at this thing. My 12 businesses, one of them was super successful in the beginning. The other 11 took time. And most businesses will take time before they turn into something. It takes five to seven years before most people can afford to truly pay themselves what they're worth inside their business. There can be anomalies. And I discussed that. The anomaly for me was I understood everything about the business and the timing was on point. You can have all the understanding in the world, not have the timing, and you don't make any business or you don't make any money in that business. So it's not just you understanding that, but this increases your probability if you understand what people buy, why they buy it, what they're willing to pay for it, what they don't like about it, how to improve the products, all of that is wonderful to increase your probability of success. The timing still has to work out. And that's why 19 out of 20 businesses never make more than a million dollars. Even those that have everything all figured out that understand the business, you still have an uphill battle to make it happen. And so people think I'm going to make money on day one. And I say, you know what? Side hustle, side hustle it, keep the day job until you get to a point where you understand every lever in the business, you have confidence in it, and you have to ask yourself this question. If I didn't have the day job spending 40 hours a week there, do I really believe I would be able to grow this more faster, better? That is why you leave your day job. You don't leave because you hate your boss, because you get tired of the commute. People leave for those things. They should be leaving because it is literally costing them more money to keep the day job than to spend more time on their side hustle. And that's what I preach. It is not jumping off of a cliff. It's leaving one opportunity to go to a better one that's safe because you've already put it through a proving ground to make sure that you understand the levers involved and what more you should be doing with that time. That's why you leave your day job. So good.

Dr. William Attaway 26:33

Not running away from something, but running to something. Amen to that. So good. You know, Steve, I just I look at your journey so far, and I say so far because I think your best days are ahead. And I think the next 20 are going to put the last 20 to shame. You know,

Quitting Your Job The Safe Way

Dr. William Attaway 26:52

you have to lead at a higher level today than you did five, 10 years ago. And the same thing is going to be true five, 10 years from now. How are you leveling up? How do you stay on top of your game and developing the new leadership skills that your team and your clients are going to need you to have in the years ahead?

SPEAKER_01 27:11

I read every single day, William. Every single day. Without fail. I actually have a reading club that I just started on a new YouTube channel that's called The Shelf Test, where we read nonfiction books to better yourself, better your business, better your mindset. And then we give them a scientific rating system and we sit down and talk about that book in detail. I've read an hour a day on average or listened on audible as I'm walking for years now. And it's gotten my mindset from where I was to where I'm at now. And as I think about the future, it's more of the repeatable system of learning from other people and reading and spending time listening to really smart people's thoughts that I get to collaborate and then I get to call them my own. How many of my thoughts are original with me? Probably not very many, but it's a collaboration of hundreds of books that I've read. And so my encouragement to people who want to continue to level up read, read, read, and read more, read more books. So many smart people have encapsulated the things they've learned in a lifetime and put them into a book that you can read in six hours. And all of a sudden, you get all the knowledge that they got in their entire life and multiply that times 100. One of the best things that you can do is read more. And so as I strive to become a better leader, a better person inside business, and just a better human being and a better father, the first thing that's on my list is reading nonstop and continuing to learn from other people.

Dr. William Attaway 28:45

In that vein, if somebody's listening to this show and they're like, ah, well, okay, where do I start? What's a good book that's made a big difference in your journey that you'd recommend they start with?

SPEAKER_01 28:56

I'll give you my favorite book that I've read this year. It's The Almanac of Naval Ravikant. Do you know who Naval Ravicant is? I don't. He's the founder and owner of Angel List. So if you invest in small businesses, that third-party escrow company that you put your money into, and then it goes to the companies you invest in, and then the stock comes back to you once the investment has paid off years down the road, it's called Angel List. But the billionaire founder of Angel List is Naval Ravikhan, really poor kid, grew up in India, and his mindset of the world as a philosopher to understand the most important things in life: chasing happiness and chasing wealth. The things that most people spend their time trying to figure out and reverse engineer. Naval's already done that for you. And this book is a compilation of all of his tweets, a compilation of all of his podcasts, where he didn't write the book. Eric Jorgensen did. And it's so well put together. You read that book. If you're someone who's hungry, you want to start with something that's simple

Reading Daily And The Book Pick

SPEAKER_01 29:57

and easy. It goes tweet by tweet and explains what that tweet means. It will inspire you to figure out what you are special in. When you want to start a business, don't just go pick something. Where is your natural interest in? Where do you have what he calls specific knowledge that no one else has? Because only you can be you. Only you are interested deeply in the things you're interested in. People think I'm not smart, I'm not good at reading, I'm not good at writing, I'm not good at arithmetic. Like, what's the thing that you can pick up and read that nobody else wants to go and do? For my wife, she reads about nutrition. I would hate that. Some people want to read about chemistry. I would hate that. My point is find the thing that Naval says. It feels like play to you, but it looks like work to others. That's your specific knowledge. And that's where you're going to be able to go through the trials for five to seven years of building a business and finding a way to monetize that thing. Because when it does get hard, well, it's your natural interest. You were already very, very happy with this. I love that book for that. The ideas on looking for happiness and how you find happiness, how you create happiness. The Volk goes, look, happiness equals contentment. If you're content with what you have, you're already happy. Everything else is icing on the cake. We have to shift our perception on some of these things. And that book is one of the greatest wake-up calls for people to change how they think about happiness and then change how they think about their business and how to be wealthy. Whether it's in a business or whether you're in a nine-to-five job that you have, that wealth really comes from you not being what we call employable, meaning that you have separated your need from employment where you are working because you want to be involved in that thing. And he goes in great detail of how to do it. It's a huge unlock for anyone to read. I would highly recommend that. The Almanac of Naval Ravikand.

Dr. William Attaway 31:43

Well, I haven't read it, and I'm totally going to pick that up now.

SPEAKER_01 31:46

It's fantastic. And by the way, it's free. It's a free book. He makes no money off of it. You go to Navalmanac.com and just look for Naval Ravikand. You can download the PDF version of the book completely for free.

Dr. William Attaway 31:59

Steve, this has been so fascinating to listen to you share just what you have of your story and what has happened so far and what you've learned. I'm so grateful to you for sharing so generously and so transparently about this journey. I know folks are going to want to stay connected to you to learn more from you and to pick up a copy of this new book that's coming out in July.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

What's the best way for them to do that? Fantastic. Well, thank you for having me on, William. It was a pleasure for me to be here. My last name is Roll. It's R-O-L-L-E. And my website is steveroll.com. It's the best way to get in contact with me, where you can also pre-order the book and order the book. And then on all my social channels, I'm just Roll with Steve. My last name with Steve and the ad symbol before that. That's how you can find me.

Dr. William Attaway 32:47

I love it. We'll have those links in the show notes.

SPEAKER_01 32:50

Awesome.

Dr. William Attaway 32:51

Steve, thank you, man. This has been great.

SPEAKER_01 32:53

Thanks for having me on, William. I really appreciate it.