What Breaks When the Pressure's On: Leadership Under Pressure (with Ed Brzychcy)

You know what good leadership looks like. The question is: what happens to it when the pressure hits?

This week, I sat down with Ed Brzychcy, Army infantry veteran, former Babson College professor, and organizational culture consultant to mid-market high-growth companies. Ed spent over a decade researching what separates the CEOs of the fastest-growing companies from everyone else, and what he found wasn't what he expected.

It wasn't the culture artifacts. It wasn't the perks or the values on the wall. It was how the leaders grew. And there's a specific four-stage journey every one of them walked through, including one stage that Ed says was emotionally harder than anything they faced at the beginning.

If you're building a team and wondering why leadership under pressure keeps breaking down, this conversation is going to give you a clear map and the courage to take the next step on it.

Books Mentioned

• Thomas Willing: The Banker Who Made America by George Vague
• Lost Worlds by Patrick Wyman

Connect with Ed on LinkedIn, or visit his website at leadfromthefront.net.

Check out Dr. William Attaway's new show, The Appreciation at Work Podcast!  

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Transcript

Dr. William Attaway (00:00)
It is such an honor today to have Ed Brzychcy on the podcast. Ed spent 12 years in the U.S. Army, including three deployments to Iraq as an infantry staff sergeant. Since leaving the service in 2011, he's been consulting with mid-market companies on leadership development, organizational culture, and why good strategy so rarely survives contact with reality.

He spent four years teaching organizational behavior and business strategy at Babson College, keeping his consulting work grounded in the latest academic research. After going on a 20-plus and counting stop road show of HR conferences, he condensed the presentation and ideas behind his work into an e-book, People, Process, and Culture. The common thread across all of Ed's work is pretty simple. Most leaders already know what to do.

The hard part is doing it when the pressure's on. Ed, thanks so much for being here.

Ed Brzychcy (01:02)
you so much for having me. Really appreciate the time today.

Dr. William Attaway (01:25)
I would love for you to share some of your story with our listeners. And I hit a couple of the high points there, but I'd love to hear about particularly your journey and your development as a leader. How did you get started?

Ed Brzychcy (01:38)
I got started in the rough Rough and Tumble School of Army Infantry. ⁓ no, very, very hands-on, practical, and becoming an NCO and taking those steps and building my career. and that's what I bring a lot to the organizations because it's not, you know, you have the formal training programs and the PLDC and schools and things like that, but it's really the day-to-day interactions that give people the mirror to operate off.

⁓ as we grow as leaders. You know, and even with my work today, it's not it's having that good example and having the behaviors to mimic and ape and show people what good leadership looks like. You can tell them til you're blue in the face that, yeah, you need to be an emotionally intelligent person, but what does that really mean? How do I actually have those sorts of conversations? So my journey started early. ⁓ it was within the military, and I very

great leaders who stood by me and I did a lot of push-ups for and just I feel like I learned from the best and it's an example I'm constantly honest in my honestly trying to you know live up to still.

Dr. William Attaway (02:51)
Well, man, we're grateful and we're appreciative for your service. First, let me just say that. Thank you for three tours. I mean, that's nothing to sneeze at. And ⁓ I that that's a lot. You know, you you talk about learning leadership in that context first. And I I think there's there's so much power there. I love your statement that you it's one thing to talk about leadership, it's another thing to see it.

Ed Brzychcy (02:54)
thank you. Thank you. Yeah. No. It was yes.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. William Attaway (03:18)
can you give an example of a a leader that you observed during that season that really stands out? And you thought, man, that's leadership.

Ed Brzychcy (03:27)
You know, my my first boss when I was in the service, ⁓ so now Sergeant First Class retired the long since he retired God long time ago. But Jim Stout. And very quickly, you know, I I was that I was that young private. I I I was that guy. I was eighteen coming in, strong, hard-headed and everything else. And you know, he was the one of the first that provide was a mentor.

It what really took me under wing, showed me here's what it's like, here's what you gotta do, here's how you build the career, here's the steps you gotta take. And even, you know, in all of my nonsense of being a young nineteen year old, he stood by me. And, you know, times when I could have gotten in more trouble, he's just learn the lesson, do what you gotta do. and never got mad about it, never got upset about it, just

rolled with it and constantly backed my place, stood by me and really showed me what good mentorship looks like, what good resiliency looks like, and how to, you know, take people in in that situation and just help them and give them a path.

Dr. William Attaway (04:45)
Hmm. You know, I one of my favorite quotes is from Brene Brown over at the University of Texas. And she says, clarity is kindness. And I think what you're describing there reminds me of that quote because he gave you clarity and what a gift that is. Clarity of purpose, clarity of path. And I believe that's one of the things that leaders get to do. We get to help those that we lead have greater clarity.

Ed Brzychcy (05:04)
Mm-hmm.

Definitely. I think that's one of the best things that that's the mark of a good leader is when is the leaders that follow you. It's you know, you you can build your career and everything else, but being able to look back and say, No, though that those are the other leaders I built that I think is the real sign of somebody who's just made an impact and the sign of a great leader.

Dr. William Attaway (05:34)
So you moved from the military into academia. That's an interesting path and one that I don't see all too often. I've spent some time in that world myself. Four years you were teaching organizational behavior and business strategy at Babson. What was that like?

Ed Brzychcy (05:43)
Yep. Mm-hmm.

Fantastic. I there there are parts that I miss last semester was my last as I moved back into my private practice full time. And you know, I love working with the students. I love being in front of the classroom. And, you know, you see some more of that impact, some more of the efforts of that mentorship. And you know, I'll still be involved on campus for all my alumni events and everything else there. So I'm certainly not out of that world by any stretch of the imagination, just not in front of the classroom anymore.

Dr. William Attaway (05:59)
Yeah.

Ed Brzychcy (06:20)
For me, the path was coming out of the service was d the challenge for me. ⁓ twelve years in, I got an early retirement after my last tour. ⁓ what do I do next with my life? And became that veteran who just bounced around the job market, like trying to find my path again. And plan Z was this weird thing called the GI Bill. Okay, I guess I'll go be a thirty-one year old freshman again. and academia worked for me, surprisingly. I was

It was the last ditch at the time. And then let's go. Let's give it a shot. Survived my first semester, bought a 19-year-old bottle of scotch because of more mature than my classmates. And to celebrate that and just stuck with it. Made it through my undergrad, got my MBA app from Babson, and then it was like, you know, this was cool. This was great. Went into started my private practice after finishing the MBA. It was like a trainer where I developed people.

Organizations do the same. And like every entrepreneur, it was okay, let's get a stable baseline and started doing a little bit of adjunct work. ⁓ a friend of mine got me into local community college, worked my way up into Endicott, and then a couple years after that, Babson called me up, and it was a lot of fun, it was great, and it was a really nice, just for me, full circle moment because continuing, you know, training leading, developing people, and then going into the academic setting to do that.

With my undergrads, my grad students were always a lot of fun just to have those conversations and see the development and get those light bulb moments. Those were the best. and then also on the academic side with the consulting, too, is you know, I'll be back at Academy of Management later on this summer and you know, big 10,000 management academics conference talking about the latest and greatest research, what we're seeing, and how me as a practitioner can help bring that into my clients.

Dr. William Attaway (07:56)
Yeah.

You know, and I love the blend of research and the practicality of what you do with your clients. I I think that is a blend that far too few people are leveraging. You know, in in my work at Appreciation at Work, that's exactly what we do. You know, we couple the the academic and the practical. And and our goal is that people can take what they're learning and go apply it immediately. I want them to have takeaways. That sounds like very much what you're doing.

Ed Brzychcy (08:28)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Exactly.

Exactly. And it it's I love it because you get the hard research background, you get the real organizational organization behavioral ⁓ studies and theories and okay, theories, studies, we got the background, we got the oomph to show okay, what's effective. The practical side is how do we actually make it happen in our organization due to our unique circumstances? And helping people frame that conversation, reach those aha moments, make a difference in their organizations.

decides, okay, yeah, we want to train our leaders. Here's, you know, the 10 part piece on emotional intelligence and how to how to talk and be an empathetic leader. Okay, great. But how do we actually do that when, hey, guess what? Our quarterly numbers are down. We gotta get ahead. And the pressure turns on. And, you know, all that's book learning's great at the moment, but how you actually frame the decisions, how you talk to your people, how do you build your teams through that is it's a difference made.

Dr. William Attaway (09:36)
You know, when we talk about culture, organizational culture, a lot of times there's some pushback, particularly from senior leaders who are like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's great, that's great. But I gotta focus on the bottom line. Is there an ROI to organizational culture work?

Ed Brzychcy (09:51)
There is. ⁓ I would argue that organizational culture, the culture you create for your organization can actually be your biggest competitive advantage. So if you look at the test for competitive advantage, it's valuable because it's you, it's building future leaders in the organization, it's your institutional knowledge, it's and it's the way you operate as a as a cohesive whole. It's rare because it's so hard to do right. It's inimitable. I work with a lot of high growth organizations doing some research in the past.

Every one of them did it in their own unique way. And every one of them found their own unique artifacts that were pivotal to that organization. And if you operationalize it, it really becomes the thing that becomes self-perpetuate, perpetuating. And you have this nice perpetuity of leaders building leaders in your organization. You have carry forth those key themes and move forward. It is the ultimate competitive advantage. Now, from a senior leader's perspective, the challenge is it's never going to be in your top three items in your dashboard.

But what it needs to become is it needs to become your operating system in the background. It needs to be whatever's in the back of our mind, the way we operate, the way we talk, the example that we set for our teams needs to be this cohesive, coherent whole that's consistent.

Dr. William Attaway (11:08)
I like that framing. You know, ⁓ the dashboard versus the OS in the background. I think that's that's a brilliant way to think about culture. You know, I believe every organization has a culture. You either you either have one you designed on purpose and you protect and guard, or you have one you inherited or didn't mean to have, but you have one.

Ed Brzychcy (11:12)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

it does. It does. Absolutely. That just happened. But you have one. It's yeah,

culture culture is the byproduct. Culture culture is an end result. And you can be intentional in creating it and make the decisions around, hey, this is the standards that we have as an organization. This is what we're going to in some senses tolerate. Or it just becomes that piece that's unwritten and

The self conscious, the group consciousness just gravitates towards.

Dr. William Attaway (11:52)
So as you spoke at so many different HR conferences, you then compile this presentation into this book, People, Process, and Culture. I'd love for you to share a little bit about that and why you decided to put this into a book form.

Ed Brzychcy (12:06)
This this was. So a brainchild a couple years ago consulting got a little bit slow. We got into the summer lag and it was like, the brain I had the brainstorm, you know what, let's talk to all the leaders who don't need me. And so I pulled up my little local Boston Business Journal and they had the top 50 fastest growing companies in in New England. I'm like, you know what? What about these CEOs is setting them apart? And so I started reaching out to that list and started digging deeper to some other local high growth companies and then eventually expanded it nationwide.

Dr. William Attaway (12:18)
Mm.

Hmm.

Ed Brzychcy (12:36)
Call up, talk to the CEO. What made what about your culture made you different? And in the end, that was the wrong question. The right question was: how did you grow as a leader and make that culture? Because as I just said earlier, every one of these leaders had their own unique artifacts that they created in their organization. Every one of them had their own methodologies, their own way of going about, their own style, which was fantastic. What the common ground that I found was how they grew as leaders.

Dr. William Attaway (12:45)
Mm.

Mm.

Ed Brzychcy (13:06)
And

it was very much a four-stage piece where every one of them went through a crucible. Every one of them went through an emotional hardship of why am I a leader? from inheriting a troubled family business to being the ⁓ woman in the old boys' club who just wants to go and do it better. They all had this real big piece too. Why do I want to do this? From there.

Learn and grow as a leader. Learn those steps. Develop your style. Develop the your communication ability. The next stage they went through was the worst. Stage three of developing other leaders. Every one of them I talked to, as soon as, especially the most impassioned entrepreneurial ones, as soon as they started building other leaders in their organization and building up the tiers and the hierarchy and having to delegate leadership tasks, the emotional burden of that was worse than the original.

The original emotional burden was, ⁓ we gotta get through this. This gives me meaning, it gives me purpose, it gives me power and energy. This next one was, I gotta let go. And I gotta give people room to make mistakes that I know are coming. And so that they can learn, grow, develop, and face their own crucibles. That was such a pivotal step. And then the last piece was for a while, this more senior ones are looking at, okay, what happens next?

Dr. William Attaway (14:19)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Ed Brzychcy (14:31)
How do I leave this legacy? How do I codify my knowledge so that it becomes part of our culture? And it was a delicate balancing act between codifying what we have, but giving room for improvisation, growth, and development in the future. We want to keep the real good high points, but we don't want to stifle the people that come after us that are going to carry this thing forward through we don't know what, because change is right up there with death and taxes. So as I built this out and had these interviews, and I was like, okay, this has been great. This is a lot of fun.

How I bring this out into the world? And I just started reaching out to SHRM, CHP, U H R HCRI organizations around the country. And hey, can I come talk to you people about this? We'd love talking about how do we develop culture? How do we see these high high leaders? The ebook came out of my slides. ⁓ when I present, it's I got one word on the screen behind me. You're there to hear me talk, not there to read my slides. And so when they start asking, hey, can we get a copy of our slides for your for our members? It's like,

There's not much context on there. They're not gonna help you guys much. So let's, you know, give them a little bit something more and crafted that into an ebook, and that's up on the website. It's also become a basis for manuscript I'm working on that I'm now pitching out with publishers and looking for a new for the next home for. But it's sort of been that journey, and it's been a lot of fun just to go out to talk to leaders in organizations, to talk to heads of people in organizations and people who see their role as developing how do we grow the

people and the culture and showcasing here's how we grow the people, how do we align our systems to that? How do we create the incentives? How do we create the procedures, the policies that enable people to act within this culture? Because that's often the biggest

Dr. William Attaway (16:18)
Hmm, that's good. You know, I said earlier that the the thread that runs through your work is that most leaders already know what to do. And the hard part's doing it when the pressure's on. expound on that just a minute. You you believe that that most leaders already have that internal, like they know what the what the next step is?

Ed Brzychcy (16:37)
No.

Every one of us knows how to be a good person. Every one of us knows what we need to do in the moment. The hard part is how do we actually go about it? ⁓ I had a little webinar with a company out on the West Coast earlier this week. How do we give good feedback? And we all, you know, you talk and you put the lay down the line, they're like, Yeah, we all know what good feedback is supposed to look like. It's but we only have so much time.

Have so much pressure. We have our teams, our direct reports, and the metrics we have to meet, our our KPIs that we have to engage with. And it's never, you know, did we have good frequent feedback conversations? That's just a given. And that's the part that slides, especially when the pressure is on. It's do we just hit the checklist? Do we just say, okay, based off of our performance matrix, here's where you stand? Or do we turn this into a learning moment? Do we turn this into understanding and getting to know our people, giving them the opportunities to learn?

That's the hard part. And under pressure is when everything falls apart because we can be in the classroom, we can be in the workshop, and we can say, here's how we're gonna do this, here's what emotional intelligence looks like, here's LMX theory, we here's all the different organizational behavior pieces that we can bring to the table. Great, knowledge is a good first step, but what's the repeated application? How do we pause before we have some of these tough conversations? How do we address sticky situations?

Especially for people who are just in the mode to that this is a learning opportunity before they actually get in trouble about it. So one of the lessons Jim Stout taught me a long time ago. And that's the valuable piece of leadership. And that's the hardest to do because it's not in the top three on the dashboard and probably won't ever be. But it's how do we work with people? How do we display empathy? How do we go re keep that questioning mindset?

And how do we draw and bridge those connections? And that's just repeated soft practice and giving people a good mirror to work off of for when they get into that. So where's the mentorship? Where's the guidance? Where's the coaching?

Dr. William Attaway (18:44)
you know, I love that. And I love the the continual improvement that's behind it. This idea that, you know, you have to be teachable. You have to maintain a teachable learning spirit about you. You know, and there's no point at which you can stop and say, Okay, I'm done learning. I'm

Ed Brzychcy (18:49)
Sure.

Mm-hmm.

There's always room to grow. There's always more to learn. And

you know, there's so many cool ways. It's you know, all of us are gonna have our own styles as leadership, all of us are gonna have our own approaches, and you can any of Goldman's styles or anything. And they're all gonna work in different situations because the people, the situations, everything around us as leaders is gonna be constantly in variance. Do we have the right tools in our toolbox for the moment that's in front of us? That's always room to grow, develop, and

Dr. William Attaway (19:22)
Yes.

Ed Brzychcy (19:25)
And just being able to hone that. And it's when you look at leadership to me, and this is again a core tenet for a lot of my work in the book, is leadership is fundamentally human. This is something we've been doing for thousands of years since we've started organizing people to do something that one person couldn't handle.

How do we go about doing that? How do we do that effectively? It's it's just part of us and who we are as individuals.

Dr. William Attaway (19:53)
So,

you know, you have more impact and influence today than you did just a few years ago. And that same thing is going to be true three, four, five years from now. You know, so how do you stay on top of your game? Like how do you level up with the new skills, leadership and other that are going to be needed by your clients and the organizations that you serve in the in the months and years to come?

Ed Brzychcy (19:59)
Mm-hmm.

I hope so, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. It's all in the mindset. For me, I I'm I'm a lifelong learner. I love learning and new information. I read more now than I did when I was going through my MBA program. My students look at me like I was crazy for saying that, but I do. And just to be informed and to be interested. And then from there, operationally, for me as a practice, Trello's become my best friend. It's having my having my

Dr. William Attaway (20:43)
Mm, nice, nice.

Ed Brzychcy (20:45)
pieces, my ducks in a row, being able to say, okay, here's where we're going, here's what we're doing, here's where we're at, here's what we've accomplished, matters a lot. And so organizationally, just systematizing my practice the way I have in honestly the last six months has been a lot of growth in that area, just to make sure that things are fluid and that they're flowing. So that was a hard lesson for me because I started looking and you wake up one morning like, Wow, what

Dr. William Attaway (21:06)
Mm. That's good.

Ed Brzychcy (21:12)
What what's okay, I've got a lot going on. What are we actually doing today? And that was that was a tough lesson. So it's okay. Let's start building, you know, time to eat my time to align my processes and systems with what I want to do. I guess I gotta eat a little bit of my own dog food here. So ⁓ sitting down with my assistant and we just we start hashing things out. We start working, okay. What are our workflows look like? What do our processes look like? How do we make sure we're in alignment on these? ⁓ just came off of

Dr. William Attaway (21:15)
Right.

That's right.

Ed Brzychcy (21:42)
call with her a little while ago about, hey, a couple of changes we made in the past week towards some of our LinkedIn and social media presence. What's going right, what's going wrong, and how do we fix it?

Dr. William Attaway (21:51)
Love that. As a continual learner, as somebody who who is reading more now than ever, like, is there a book that you would recommend? One that's made a big difference in your journey?

Ed Brzychcy (22:02)
So so many. So many. ⁓ the two latest ⁓ I love I don't know if you want to call them dad books or whatever, but I I love good history. I love good leadership books. ⁓ just read a great book on one of America's founding fathers, Thomas Willing, the the banker who made America, which was a fantastic premise and insight into colonial finance.

And as much as this founding father kind of kept a low profile and was just sort of the banker in the background, George Vague, the author, man, it's just such a great insight into here's the politics and the finances from colonial America. And when you overlay that on what we're seeing today, it's there's so many similarities. There's so many, it's like nothing's changed in 250 years between the politics, the finance, how and how the two play off of each other.

Dr. William Attaway (22:51)
Goodness.

Ed Brzychcy (22:56)
it's insightful to see, okay, here's how the system we have today was actually created. And the things that we don't get in, you know, our history classrooms. I love books like that. It just to provide some extra context, to provide some new insights, and just to give an appreciation for where we are today. ⁓ the book I just finished was

Dr. William Attaway (23:00)
Mm.

Ed Brzychcy (23:19)
More about the ten thousand years of prehistory of humanity. And so when I say leadership goes back,

Dr. William Attaway (23:23)
Interesting.

Ed Brzychcy (23:26)
So Lost Worlds by Patrick Wyman. ⁓ which was he's another podcaster, but and he does a history podcast, but he just came out with this book and it covers the ten thousand years before the written word. So it's a great survey on all the things humanity was up to before we ever started writing things down. And what we've newly uncovered in the last, you know, decade in the archaeological record, as we've gotten a lot just morse new technologies coming out in that field. And it, you know.

It just shows that how we've organized as people has made such an incredible difference. And it's something that is instrumental to us as humanity. And the projects we're able to do, I mean, this is, you know, the years before the pyramids, and we still had cities, we still had trade, we still had organization, we had the development of what became politics and leadership and hierarchical societies, and what went right and what didn't work, and this many, many struggles and

Dr. William Attaway (24:03)
Mm.

Ed Brzychcy (24:24)
Honestly, who knows how many lost civilizations to get us to this point? So two really cool books that just recently have left an impact on me, just because it's nice to see, you know, get some of these new perspectives and understand that humanity is really cool. Like we have, and so being able to, you know, be the best person that we are, there's so much we can go off of towards that.

Dr. William Attaway (24:28)
Mm-hmm.

You know, I haven't read either of those and now I'm gonna check both out. Thank you for that.

Ed Brzychcy (24:57)
Please do.

Dr. William Attaway (25:00)
Ed, one more question for you. You know, as we tie a bow on this, I think it's important to call out something that is so often true. You know, our listeners are listening to you and your story and maybe looking you up online and thinking, my goodness. Man, Ed's journey's just been up and to the right. Like he hasn't struggled like I struggle. His entrepreneurial journey hasn't had the bumps and the bruises like mine has. And of course we know that's silly because

There's no such thing as a up and to the right journey, right? It doesn't work like that for entrepreneurs, right? But in the vein of that idea, if I had the ability to snap my fingers and solve one problem right now in your business, what would you love for me to solve?

Ed Brzychcy (25:30)
No, no, not at all.

Great question. ⁓

The biggest challenge always is keep the motivation. And that you know, when you get the struggles, when you get that, how do you find the good way to power through the tough times? And sometimes, you know, for me, I've got a couple new ways, but I would always love to learn some more. Just okay, let's pick ourselves up back up by the bootstraps and get going. That's always my big question and something I

Dr. William Attaway (25:51)
Mm, mm.

Good.

Ed Brzychcy (26:15)
Never found a good answer for myself for. You get through it and you look back, like, okay, I got through this time. I sometimes you're like, I don't even know how. But being consistently able to do that and to learn from it is a big piece of mine. And there's one of it's one of those: is there a better way to improve my mindset as I know I'm going to face troubled times? That would be my one big piece that I would love to get even better.

Dr. William Attaway (26:24)
Mm.

You know, I think I think you've keyed in on something every entrepreneur struggles with, you know, because we all have great days and we all have days when we wonder, is this gonna work? Is this is this actually gonna make it? Like, am I gonna make it through this? And I and I think that's part of the journey. And I'm so glad you called that out because there is an idea out there that, you know, if you're feeling like that, you're on the wrong path. And I don't think that's true at all.

Ed Brzychcy (26:55)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

It is. Mm-hmm.

No. I think if you're feeling like

if you're feeling like that, I think it's a sign you're on the right path, honestly. Long, long time ago when I first got started, more than a decade ago, doing all of this, I had a coach and entrepreneurship, it's one of those things that's going to be why you get up in the morning, but it's also gonna be why you're awake at three.

Dr. William Attaway (27:15)
Yes.

That's right. Well said.

Ed Brzychcy (27:33)
that that one I've kept in my hip pocket for a decade now and it still rings true.

Dr. William Attaway (27:38)
Yes,

yes, it does. I would agree. Ed, this has been so great today. I'm so grateful to you for sharing so much of your journey and your insights with the show and with our listeners. I know people are going to want to stay connected to you, continue to learn more from you, about you, and engage with what you're doing. What's the best way for people to do that?

Ed Brzychcy (27:58)
Two best ways are my LinkedIn is always active. ⁓ find me on LinkedIn at Ed Brzychcy. And then my website, leadfromthefront.net, is another great way of getting a hold of me.

Dr. William Attaway (28:11)
Excellent. We'll have those links in the show notes.

Ed Brzychcy (28:13)
Great, thank you so much, appreciate it.