Catalytic Leadership

Why the Founder Identity Trap Makes Scaling Feel Harder, Not Easier

• Dr. William Attaway • Season 4 • Episode 24

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If your agency has grown—but the pressure hasn’t eased—this episode will hit close to home. I sat down with Calvin Correli, founder of Simplero, an all-in-one platform that’s generated over $857 million for creators, to unpack why scaling often feels heavier instead of lighter.

Calvin operates from a single premise: your business is a reflection of your inner code. And when that code is off, no system, automation, or AI workflow will fix the friction. We explored the Founder Identity Trap—the subconscious patterns that quietly turn founders into bottlenecks, fuel burnout, and keep teams from operating at full strength.

This conversation goes far beyond tools. We talk about why successful founders still feel dissatisfied, how overcomplicating systems masks deeper issues, and what actually creates clarity, leverage, and sustainable growth. If you’ve invested in better systems, smarter automation, or AI-driven operations—and something still feels misaligned—this episode will give you language, insight, and a practical framework to address the real constraint.


If you’re a coach, consultant, or service provider tired of being the systems janitor, Calvin invites you to explore Simplero at simplero.com. If you’re already at six figures, there’s a direct option on the homepage to connect with him personally. You can also find Calvin on Instagram under Calvin Correli and let him know you heard him on this podcast.


Join Dr. William Attaway on the Catalytic Leadership podcast as he shares transformative insights to help high-performance entrepreneurs and agency owners achieve Clear-Minded Focus, Calm Control, and Confidence.

Connect with Dr. William Attaway:

Dr. William Attaway:

It is an honor today to have Calvin Corelli on the podcast. Calvin works from a single premise. Your outer world, your business, your wealth, your impact is a direct reflection of your inner code. This philosophy is the foundation of Simplero, the all-in-one engine that has generated $817 million plus for sovereign creators. It stands as proof that scale comes from debugging your inner code, not from endlessly complicating your outer systems. As the mind debugger, he now teaches founders how to find and dismantle the mind bugs, the invisible code that sabotages growth so they can build their empire on true alignment, not hustle and borrowed playbooks. His latest frontier is coaching 3.0, a new paradigm he engineered to make personal breakthroughs a daily practice, not a rare, expensive event. Calvin, I'm so glad you're here.

Calvin Correli:

Thanks for being on the show. Thank you. I'm so glad to be here. It's great to be with you this morning. I was actually listening to that that uh intro, because must have been a minute or two ago that we wrote it, because I was just checking. It's 857 million as often. Oh keeps going up. Keeps going as as we would hope. Right? Exactly. It would be weird if it was the other way around.

Intro:

That's right. Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed to help leaders intentionally grow and thrive. Here is your host, author and leadership and executive coach, Dr. William Attaway.

Dr. William Attaway:

I would love to start, Calvin, with you sharing some of your story with our listeners, particularly around your journey and your development as a leader. How did you get started? Whoa.

Calvin Correli:

I was a very hesitant leader. I was very hesitant to be leading. Actually, I remember the first my first moment with leadership that I recall was when I was in college, I was studying computer science in Denmark, where I'm from. And at one point there was this like student occupation. The students were occupying the faculty. And the reason why was there was some sort of strike amongst the faculty. And we students were like, screw that, we want to learn. We're here to learn. So we set up our own teaching classes. Like we would teach each other and VTA and we would like stay till stay till like 1, 2 a.m. No alcohol, no nothing, just like teaching and learning and studying and executing. And it was really fun. And I emerged as like one of the I just felt like I felt this like leadership vacuum. So I'd like to get up in a chair and start to gather a crowd and start to direct people. And it was my first like inclination. It was like, maybe I can actually be a leader of some sort. It was like a completely foreign thought to me at that point. So that was the first time. But then yeah, I like I started the software company. I started Simply because I was doing what I call like spiritual entrepreneurship, spiritual coaching for entrepreneurs. This was back in 2008, was when I got into that, and um needed software. And so I built the software, and for the first long period of time, it was just me, and then eventually started to hire some team members. And in the beginning, I was I was I felt so unworthy and so like insignificant that that if someone came to me and and said, Hey, I would love to work for you. Do you have a job? I felt obligated to hire them. Like whether they had skills, whether they had skills, whether they solved the problem I needed, I was just like, Oh, you want to work with me? Yeah, how much do you want to be paid? Okay, I'll pay you that. Maybe you can do some support, something like that. I was like, that's great. Yeah. So I did that. And it was like, it didn't work out great, you know. Exactly. Not surprisingly, but probably. And then later, I was I stumbled into this one guy who was like a brilliant programmer, also from Denmark. He actually also lives in, I live in Malibu now. He lives in LA, so it's kind of fun. We both both ended up around here. And uh he's awesome. His name is Nick. And he was my first employee where I was like, this is amazing. Like, he's so good. He's way better than me. I'm like, you take that over. And then I actually started making music. So I started getting into singing and producing songs and like and like my hair grew long and I colored it. Like, so there's some photos of me out there. It's really fun to watch. And I was like deep into that for like a year, two years or something, where I was like kind of abdicating the whole thing, just letting him run the company. Then I eventually hired a couple people to do support for me. Um, and so one of these people are still on the team today, which is amazing. And then eventually it's kind of like mushroomed into like a 30-person team or something. And there's a moment where I realized that I had the pattern that I was playing at that point. Well, let me back up for a second, actually say so. After this Nick guy, he ended up leaving to start his own company and wanting to do his entrepreneurial journey, which I support. And uh, and then I was back at the keyboard myself. Like I had nobody else. I'm not running a software company. So, like, okay, I gotta go again. And I really, really struggled to find engineers to replace them, to find good engineers. And so that was a moment of like this is what I always do when I'm faced with a business challenge. And this is what I do with my clients as well. There's the outer piece, like, what is the strategy? Where do you post a job at? How do you vet people? How do you find them? Like, what's the profile of the person? All of these things, right? And everybody has like a million systems and tactics and strategies for those things. But then there's the inner piece. Like, what is it in me emotionally that's blocking this? And for me at that point, it was that I got so much praise from my dad for being good at programming. It was how I connected with father, with my dad, with my father. It was how he I felt like he saw me or saw a part of me at least. And so for me to find another person to be better than me as a programmer was threatening because like maybe dad's gonna love him more, right? Subconsciously, that was a threat to me. So there was this like cross-purposes. The first guy I just stumbled into, so it just kind of happened. But the but beyond that, it was like, oh, I'm actually scared of hiring really good engineers. So once I cleared that block, I was actually able to find some good people, and now I have an amazing engineering team. And then the last piece was on the like real leadership, which was the way it landed for me was a friend of mine who's a Navy SEAL, and as a Navy SEAL, he's obviously you know seeing a lot of trauma, right? A lot of traumatized people. So he has this process he developed of identifying what's the core trauma that's running your life. And his premise is that there's always one that got imprinted first. And the way that your brain works is it pattern matches. So, like something happened, you did something to survive, and you're here today. So for so, from the point of view of your subconscious mind, it was a complete success because you survived, and that's the only purpose. And so now the way the brain works is it'll pattern match to find situations that look like the circumstances when this original imprint happened, and then it'll do the same trauma response. So that's why we get stuck in that same response over and over. And so every subsequent trauma is like a variation of that typically. And so for me, that what he identified was that I was born uh was my birth trauma, which was I was born not breathing. And so kind of near dead, and then um God to smack me and I I breathed and I'm here today, put me in an incubator for 48 hours. But that was a major imprint of like, uh oh, like coming out here, like what is this not breathing, dead? Maybe like a tunnel and the other side and all that people things that we hear people say, I have no memory of these things. But then, and then the complete isolation for 48 hours of like, what is like I'm I'm I don't belong, I'm not safe, I'm like what I'm not wanted, like all of them, like all these imprints that happen at that point. So, what he pointed out to me is that what because he had the same birth trauma, was that what that left him with, and I really recognize that in me, was a pattern of being half in, half out. So almost like coming into this world and be like, do I really want to be here? I'm not sure. Should I like, you know, head out of here? Like, and so I can see that I've played that pattern in all kinds of relationships. And at that point, as a leader of this company of Simplero, I was doing exactly that. I was talking to people about, hey, can you be my chief of staff in that, but really kind of lead the company? I hired a COO and it cost me half a million dollars of like trying that route. And I tried to hire this president. I even talked to one of our competitors where their like leader had just exited, whatever, and I was like, hey, maybe you can come over here and run this company. And this really like smacked me back into my power to realize, no, like I I'm the freaking CEO. It's got to be me. Like I stopped trying to hire someone to be it, right? So I know there's a long answer to your question, like, what's my journey with leadership? But that's my journey with leadership.

Dr. William Attaway:

No, I think that's I think that's brilliant, Kevin. And I think that the a couple of things jump out at me there. You know, one, just because you're really good at one thing does not mean you're really good at finding, hiring, and leading people.

Calvin Correli:

Oh crap. Like it's been a journey, man. Like it's been a journey. And like the knee-jerk responds when you're someone like me who got really good at stuff yourself, right? It's like, let me just go back to doing that again.

Dr. William Attaway:

Yes, exactly. Exactly. And and then that's almost an abdication, right? And you try to find somebody else to take care of it for you, right? Yeah. And then you realize, wait a minute, I can't, I can't delegate my role, the role that's only mine. Yep. And I think that's that's key. And uh I hope our listeners are taking note of that because this is a this is something I see again and again. You know, somebody's really good at providing a product or a service or a task, and they're phenomenal at that. And then as they found success, they have to hire people to help them with fulfillment, and then they have to lead those people. And that's a different skill, you know.

Calvin Correli:

And trying to hire for the wrong thing in the wrong way. Like for me, like I'm very good at programming. I'm very good at the coaching that I do. I'm not that great at marketing per se, but I'm very good at well, I am actually quite good at it, but I tell myself that I'm not. I have told myself that I'm not. But what I am extremely good at is figuring stuff out. So the process of just getting in there and just every day executing, and every day I get better, every day I learn something new about it. I'm very good at that. And I've tried to delegate that a million times. I'm like, I want to get really good at organic content, for example. Let me hire someone to be the CEO of organic content and have him figure it out. Does not work. Does not work, never ever worked for me, right? But if I dedicate myself to it, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna make this my number one focus for the next hundred days, and I'm gonna dedicate at least 100 minutes a day to just figuring this out. In a hundred days, I will probably have figured it out. If not, 200 days, whatever. At some point, I will have figured it out. Now I have a playbook, now I can hire someone to run that playbook. But for me, trying to hire someone to make that playbook has never worked. And I can apply that to any area. I guarantee you, like that's what I did with music and production, with singing, like any area I can I can dedicate 100 days or whatever. Um if I'm really in there, I will master it and I will then have a playbook I can hire someone too. But I don't know if that's a rare skill. To me, it's like just natural. It's like, what, like that's why wouldn't like that's how it works is not how it's done? I don't know, but it doesn't seem to be how most people operate. That's a good word. And I think it's just something that's that sets founders apart, right? Like it's we were we just we dive, we don't know how to do anything. We just figure it out. And I don't know. I guess that's why we are we're founders.

Dr. William Attaway:

That's it. So so you came up with Simplero. Talk a little bit about that. I mean, generating $857 million in revenue is nothing to sneeze at. No. What is this product exactly?

Calvin Correli:

It's a it's all in one platform for coaches, course creators, consultants. Like I like to think of like Shopify is for physical products, and Simplero is like that for digital products. Anything that doesn't have to be shipped physically via mail, like we handle like actually way broader than Shopify, because it's like it's it's your website, it's all your landing pages and your funnels and your shopping cars and checkouts and affiliate tracking and memberships and core communities and courses, and you've got the AI integrated into that. Like it's really all in one place because most coaches they end up with like a I call it the Frankenstack of like five tools, like ten tools, or whatever, and you have to like upload your logo everywhere. You have to figure out how they connect, and you gotta like which does what, and they all work a little different. So your brain has to constantly context switch between them. And then there's all these brittle integrations, whether it's with zaps or glue or duct tape or rubber bands, like or sneaker wear, whatever you do to glue them together. And it always breaks exactly when you're on vacation and your family's hanging out by the pool and you're ready to sit margaritas, and you're just like, ah, no, I gotta sit here and figure this out. And then you reach out to the support of one person, and they're like, no, it's not our fault, it's these fat guys over there, and then you talk to them, it's like, no, no, no, it's not us, it's them. And like, you're just like, oh, can someone just like take ownership here and figure this out? And so you end up, yeah, you end up being a systems janitor and not a coach, and like that's not how it's to be. Yeah, it's a good word.

Dr. William Attaway:

I I can I can resonate with that. You know, early in my practice, that's exactly what I had. I had a tech stack that was that was tied together with duct tape integrations that would break at the worst times. That was exactly my experience. And so some playro fixes that it does.

Calvin Correli:

It does, yeah. So yeah, the all-in-one, fully integrated software. We're also like uh we're a small company, like we're more of a boutique versus like not small. Like we've like again, our people have generated soon almost a billion dollars, right? But but compared to many of the other players out there, we're we're pretty boutique. Like I'm it's easy to reach me. Like we move really fast. And um, and there's a very personal feel. Like we were just uh my team was helping someone move over from I don't know what she was using before, and she sent this beautiful note saying, Hey, I just felt so cared for by your team, right? Especially because she was going through a difficult time in her in her personal life. She's like, it just means so much to me how cared for I felt. And that's something that I'm really proud of. Built a team that really cares. And to me that to me, it's like this is we're in an industry that's like that's obviously growing, right? And there's been some big exits, and some companies have like, you know, taken hundreds of millions of dollars in investments and all that stuff. We're fully bootstrapped, no outside capital. I own a hundred percent. It's like wow, it's it's um, it's a very different way of playing the game. And it's like I realized early on that there's no there to get to. Right? It's not like I gotta, I gotta sell this company, and then I'll have like a billion dollars or a hundred million dollars or ten billion dollars or whatever it is, and then I will have made it, or then I will finally feel like I'm a somebody, or then I'll finally people from back home, they're gonna look up to me and be like, oh my god, Calvin, you are incredible. You made it, or my parents are finally gonna see my worth, or whatever it is like we're hoping for. I'll never have to worry about anything. It's a mirage, right? It's a complete mirage. I got an email. This is really early in my journey, like before I started Simplero, but after I had this realization about around spirituality and entrepreneurship, I was starting to blog and I got this email from from this guy, Eric, in San Francisco. I don't remember his last name. And he was like, I was just reading your blog and it really resonated. I'm I'm the founder of a of a mobile social gaming startup. Remember, this is in 2008, right? The iPhone launched in 2007. It's like really early in this. And we just got an acquisition offer for $300 million. And this is what I've been working towards my entire adult life, and I've never been more depressed. What's going on? Wow. I was speaking, I was on a podcast yesterday with with someone who had recently sold his company, and he was like in this midlife crisis. I have never met a founder who exited their company who didn't go through a major depression. Never happened. And so this guy, Eric's luck, was that he realized that before he actually sold, because he was he was like the money was was within reach and it was close enough for him to feel it and realize that he had always put like the answer, joy, happiness, success, whatever it is, and on the other side of this mythical exit event of having the money. And now that it was within reach, he realized, oh crap, I wouldn't be happy. Wow. I thought I was gonna be happy when it happened. Now it's kind of here, I can feel it, I can taste it, it's within reach. Like, crap, I'm still not happy. Crap, I would still have the same issues with I don't know, my body, my health, with worth, like whatever it is. We didn't get into that. But now it's worse. It's worse because I don't have a strategy anymore. Before I had a strategy, like, okay, this is military, this is terrible, I can't stand this. But on the other side, when I have this exit, then everything's gonna be great. And now he was like, oh great, I have this uh crap. And it's like it's not there's never any completion to this thing, right? Like, sure, if you want the exit, if you want the money, that's great. Like, I'm not against that. Take the money. There's nothing wrong with that. But don't imagine that it's gonna give you anything that it's not. Money can only solve money problems. There are lots of things that money can solve, but ultimately, why do we want anything? And this is a pattern that we all do. We feel something, like kind of subconsciously, but it's like it's there as like a gnawing feeling of like, like, uh I don't know. And then we're like, ah, I feel like maybe, maybe if I had this car, maybe if I had this house, maybe if I had this money, maybe if I had another child, maybe if I had a six-pack, maybe if whatever, like maybe if I was like on stage speaking or singing or the whatever, then I would feel like, you know, pick, make your pick, right? I was I'm safe, I'm enough, I'm worthy, I'm wanted, I'm like whatever. So it's like, but what it is, it's just a feeling that we don't want to be with. And so we don't want to be with that feeling of like feeling like I'm a nobody, for example. It's like, oh crap, I'm a nobody. I don't want to be that. Like, let me be somebody, let me do something so I can feel like somebody. So we instantly, instead of actually going inside to where the feeling is, we go outside to circumstance and we find some piece of evidence. Like, oh, it's because I only have one house. It's because I only have three Ferraris. Like, whatever. We find some evidence in the circumstance for why I must feel this way. And then we look at that and we try to fix the circumstance. And then we hope that when we fix the circumstance, we get the fourth Ferrari. Then, yeah, now I'm gonna be there. And it works for like 14 seconds or maybe 14 days if you're lucky and you feel amazing, and then like you're just back to the same and you need another one, right? There's a famous clip with with uh Jim Carrey where he's getting being being introduced as like two-time global globe, what is it? Uh Golden Globe Award winning winner, Jim Carrey, and he comes up. Go look this clip up, it's fantastic. He comes up and he's like, two time Golden Globe Award winning Jim Carrey. Yeah. When I go to bed at night, I'm not like normal people. I don't sleep like normal people. People. I sleep like two-time Golden Globe award-winning Jim Carrey. And then he goes on, and then he's like, eventually he's like, if only it'd been three. It really doesn't. And that's when you in the intro where you talked about like this is the core where everything in your life is actually a projection of what's in your mind. That's what what where that is what gives the shape to everything that's in your circumstance. And so when the things in your circumstance aren't how you want it, or just like, you know, yeah, when when you want to change your circumstance, change this. That's the game. And when you and instead of trying to change circumstance so that you can finally feel how you want to feel, start by feeling how you want to feel, because that's something that's entirely within your power. You're not a victim of circumstance in terms of how you feel. You get to feel however you want to feel. Practice feeling how you want to feel. And then you don't start chasing the things because you hope they're going to make you feel something that they never will because it never worked. You change them because you want to, because it's fun. Like, hey, I got to build this thing because it's exciting. It's fun. Like I got to do something with my time, right? Like, yeah, why not build something that's fun with people that I enjoy building with, with customers that I enjoy being with, right? Like that's that's the whole point. Like, we're not trying, I'm not trying to build this up to some massive thing that I can sell so that every customer is just a stepping stone to another milestone to like getting to the point where I can sell it so I can be rid of it. Like, that's not what I'm here for. I'm actually here to enjoy every moment with my team members or with my customers and just do amazing together because it's fun.

Dr. William Attaway:

Well, and I think that's a differentiator. I really do, because you know, in the age of AI, it's all about greater efficiency, more workflows, you know, like let's automate as much as possible. But you can't automate what you just said. You can't automate that. And I think that becomes a differentiator when you focus on the human aspect of this. Exactly. You know, and the fact that that you have a customer who said, you know, man, I felt like I was cared for. You're helping you're creating an environment where people feel valued.

unknown:

Yes.

Dr. William Attaway:

And that's something AI can't do. And I think that that becomes something that as humans, we have the ability to do for one another, to feel to help people feel known and seen and heard and valued. Exactly. And that sounds like exactly what you're doing in in the team culture that you've created.

Calvin Correli:

Yeah. It's it's a miracle. It is. I love it. I love it. And that's a beautiful thing, is like when you my approach is like not so many eight-step fit systems and three-step this and 15-step that. Like, I it that stuff has never worked for me. I'm not like I don't work in that way. Yeah. But by me constantly just cultivating my being, right? Then that that like just kind of it gets infused into the team. So I don't have to strategize about it. I just show up this way and it naturally attracts people who like that. That impacts the leadership. Then they naturally hire more of the people who are like that. It's just like it becomes an organic thing and not something that we have to have KPIs for.

Dr. William Attaway:

That's good. That's really good. Yeah. So let me ask you this. I mean, you know, you've been doing this for a minute now. And you're you're having to lead at a higher level today than you did even a handful of years ago. And that same thing's gonna be true three, four, five years from now. How do you stay on top of your game? How do you level up with the new leadership skills that your team, your business, your clients are gonna need you to have in the days ahead?

Calvin Correli:

What I found is that the secret to life, I'm gonna reveal now the secret to life, according to Calvin Garelli on a on a Thursday morning. Do it. But first you gotta pay the price of entry. No, so this the secret to life is really so I I talk about the mind bugs. Right? The mind bugs are there's like a set of 10 core mind bugs that are that are core patterns in our in the way our brain is wired. And I've I've touched on on a bunch of them. They are not thoughts or beliefs, they're not things that are like words that are happening in my in my mind consciously. They're not thoughts that I'm aware of. They live below that level at the level of identity, at the level of the subconscious. They are words, but they're not so much thoughts exactly. So they are things like I'm not enough, or I'm not wanted, or I don't belong, or I'm not worthy, or I'm not gonna be safe, I'm not gonna be okay, or I did something wrong. Like those are like they're very, very clear, sharp, essential, but again, they're not conscious. They're just how you see yourself. You don't go around thinking I'm not enough, I'm not enough, I'm not enough. Right. It's just how you relate to the world. And so now from a place of I'm not enough, what do you do? Well, I need more degrees, I need more proof, I need more techniques and tactics, I need more money, I need more like whatever like makes you think that you're not enough, education, cost, I don't know what it is, right? But whatever is your rule around not enough. But it's not that you're going around thinking I'm not enough. Maybe you need more babies or more houses or more, like, I don't know. Yeah. And so here's the point, here's the secret is that the only thing that really matters in life, and the purpose of everything that happens in your life is to help you see and clear your mind bugs. There are you we the reason we come into this world is to experience what life is like in the belief, in the prison that created by the mind bug of I'm not enough, or I'm not wanted, or I'm not safe, and see what does that feel like? Oh, that feels like kind of icky. And then to realize the lie of it and find the freedom on the other side of that. That's the whole game. And so this is what I do every day. I do work, like I talk about the outer work and the inner work, right? I do stuff, I launch an ad or I have a sales call, or I have a T meeting with my team, or I write a feature, whatever. I do the things. And then as I do it, naturally things are gonna come up. Like I'm gonna feel something. I'm gonna be like, oh, there's something going on here. And that starts to me to get curious about like what is the mind bug that's happening here that's causing this discomfort, this stress, this like sense of like friction. And then I investigate that and I realize oh, it's the I'm not want it kicking in again in a new way. And then I'm like, okay, I see it. And then once you just get consciousness, conscious awareness of it, that's it. You don't have to like do 14 years of therapy. Sometimes doctor people is like, yeah, I've been in therapy for 33 years. I'm like, if you've been in therapy for 23 years, like you're doing it wrong. Like, that's not like you know, right. It's like, no, um, we don't want to like if you do it right, it's like it's instant. And that doesn't mean that you will not ever have like a wet a a feeling not wanted thing again, but it won't hit the same way and you'll be able to unravel it quicker and quicker. It's a very fast process. But to answer your question, this is it. This dance between I do something and then I go internal and look at what it brought up, that I call it the tick tock, like back and forth. That's how I constantly up-level everything. And the beautiful thing about it is that like it, there's a spillover. You do it in one area, and I maybe it was something with business and something with like the finances or you know, customer acquisition or a team issue or a customer issue or whatever that brought something up. Great. I look at that, and now that actually transformed my transforms my relationship with my wife or my children or my body or whatever it is.

Dr. William Attaway:

And I know people have benefited and gained so much insight here. I know they're gonna want to stay connected to you and learn more about you and Simplero and everything else you're working on. What is the best way for them to do that?

Calvin Correli:

So if you're a coach, course creator, consultant, service provider, and you're tired of being the system's janitor, then go check out Simplero. It's simplero.com, Simplero.com, and uh, we would gladly work with you. If you're if you're just starting out, start a trial, and we've got an amazing support team ready to help you and plethora of free resources to help me get going in the simplest possible way. If you're already at six figures, reach out to me, hit me up. There's actually a link on the on the homepage as well for people who are already doing six figures. I helped personally, coaches, creators at six figures, move everything over, simplify. I'm a genius at simplifying your business so that you just have more freedom, more more freedom to be you, right? Like the be the unique transmission that is you that can never be replaced by AI or anything else. And we'll do we'll do some mind debugging as well to find like what's the core mind bug that's been running your life till now. If you're already at six figures or thereabouts or above. And then for me personally, uh my Instagram is the best place. So if you go to go to my just my name on Instagram, it's Calvin Corelli. There's two R's and one L, which is a little confusing, just by name. And follow me there and then send me a DM. Say you found me on this podcast. And if there's anything that resonated, I'd love to, I'd love to hear.

Dr. William Attaway:

I will make sure all those links are in the show notes. Okay, appreciate it. Calvin, thank you for your time today and for being so generous with your insight. We're grateful.

Calvin Correli:

Thank you. My pleasure. It's so fun to be with you.

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Dr. William Attaway

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