Getting Paid as an Owner: Why High Revenue Still Leaves You Last

You can grow revenue, scale teams, and carry real responsibility, and still feel like the business isn’t paying you. In this episode, I sit down with Mauro Campagnaro, Financial Advisor at Campagnaro Wealth Advisory in Calgary, Alberta, to address why getting paid as an owner often breaks down as companies scale.

Mauro brings over 20 years as a business owner and financial strategist. We talk about what happens after growth, when retained earnings pile up, tax exposure increases, and exit planning feels distant but consequential. This conversation is about shifting from hustle to structure: how owners think about compensation, corporate structure, tax strategy, and long-term continuity before pressure forces reactive decisions.

If you’re scaling past seven figures and want clarity on owner pay, wealth preservation, and building a system that rewards the risk you carry, this episode gives you a strategic lens and practical next steps, without noise or theory.

📚 Books Mentioned

• Winning Strategies for Success by Brian Tracy
  
  
• The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen R. Covey
  
  

 If this conversation sparked questions about structure, tax strategy, or long-term planning, you can connect with Mauro at cwa.life or campagnarowealth.ca. He’s licensed in Canada and available for strategic conversations beyond financial planning.

Join Dr. William Attaway on the Catalytic Leadership podcast as he shares transformative insights to help high-performance entrepreneurs and agency owners achieve Clear-Minded Focus, Calm Control, and Confidence.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Guest Intro And Career Origin
• 3:30 Early Ventures And Hard Lessons
• 6:50 Scaling To National Growth
• 9:50 Misaligned Roles And Pivot To Finance
• 13:30 Entrepreneurs Helping Entrepreneurs
• 16:10 Common Structural Mistakes In Business
• 20:40 Succession And Thinking With The End In Mind
• 24:30 Growth Mindset And Exit Strategy
• 28:10 Paying Yourself Last And Wealth Preservation

Transcript

Dr. William Attaway: 0:00

I'm excited today to have Mauro Campañero on the podcast. Morrow is a financial advisor at Campanero Wealth Advisory in Calgary, Alberta, with over 20 years of experience as a business owner and a financial strategist. Optimizing business operations, securing entrepreneurial continuity, and fostering growth mindsets. With core values grounded in integrity, honesty, and trust, he protects each client's wealth and investment for a lasting legacy. This roadmap ensures clients' financial well-being and the freedom to retire with the lifestyle they dream of.

Mauro Campagnaro: 0:59

Thank you, William. Wonderful introduction. I appreciate the synopsis of what I've done so far. Yeah, thank you.

Dr. William Attaway: 1:06

And I like that so far, because the best is yet to come.

Mauro Campagnaro: 1:09

Exactly. That's right. That's right.

Intro: 1:14

Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed to help leaders intentionally grow and thrive. Here is your host, author, and leadership and executive coach, Dr. William Attaway.

Dr. William Attaway: 1:39

How did you get started?

Mauro Campagnaro: 1:42

Well, how far back do we go? But let's let's put it this way let's put it this way. After university, I spent a considerable amount of time working for some of the larger consumer packaged goods companies. We we uh at a point in time when that fire in my belly was like, you need to be in business for yourself. And I'm probably talking to a lot of people who are got it in the back of their mind that it's in their belly, they want to do it. And my uh recommendation is do it, but do it carefully and understand what you're doing before you get into it, because you don't want to I mean, you're you're gonna fail along the way and you're gonna make mistakes along the way, but at the end of the day, be as pragmatic as you can towards doing all of the due diligence before you get into business for yourself. So anyway, I got into in business for myself in the uh consumer packaged goods industry as a distributor. And then, you know, as as I tell them the story is that the cars fell because the love of my life decided that she didn't want to be on the journey with me anymore. So at that point, as a as you know, when you're when you're holding the cards so thin, it did impact the business. I held on for a couple more years, but then I found this angel, which is, you know what, just make sure you you network properly because networking does help when when the cards are stacked against you, sometimes you can you can find someone that can actually uh help. And and this person uh decided that you know we're we're we were aligned so much in the way our thought patterns were and how we were in the same business and the same space together at the same time that he says, You know, you got to come on board, I'm gonna buy you out. And he bought me on board and he gave me carte blanche at the end of the day after a few conversations. He goes, Look, I need you. Um yeah, and it was nice because it was you know, it's not that that uh you know I I knew a lot more, it's just I knew a different piece of the puzzle that he was missing from all of the experience I'd had with all the multinationals, knowing how they do it. Well, let's implement those practices into our business, right? And so continuous improvement was always in the conversation around how do we continuously improve things. And during that con that that that period of time, we grew the business from seven roughly about 17 million dollars to almost forty million dollars in four years. And we went coast to coast, national. We hit all of the the care the the primary um or all of the large uh retailers in the country, and we were crushing it. Um and then you know you know, other things happen. I got I got a phone call. When you're successful, it's funny. Things see things start to happen and the word gets out. Well, I got a I got an offer, and I I took the offer, um, and I and I got uh basically doubled my salary and everything like that. But be careful of the things you you you choose because that uh at in that time this gentleman didn't understand the the length of time that it takes to actually have business come to fruition. And so we were bringing in product from Italy and we were trying to enter a market that was already very mature. So we were we were weren't aligned in terms of our strategic implementation and how long it takes. So I said, you know what, at this point, I think I'm I'm old enough now and I'm and I'm I'm a little bit I'm still not dialing in on what my core values are. And and so after that, I decided uh that I had enough, and and we just I just completely moved right up right into the financial services world. And I did take the securities course in 99. So this is how old I am and how dated we are, but but at the end of the day, I took it in 1999. I was gonna do this in 1990, but at that at that point, I didn't have my mind and and and the mindset of a true entrepreneur who says, you know, I'm gonna put everything on the line. Now I had a mortgage, I was starting a family, and and these things get on your in your head, you're going, okay, I've got to support my family here, so I need a salary. And so I stuck it out and I didn't pursue my passion, which is the financial services industry. Everything happens for reasons, as my new wife says. Fast forward now today, I'm doing exactly what I'd love to do, which is I'm helping people. And I'm helping those in my space mostly because my ethos is entrepreneurs for entrepreneurs. And so as an entrepreneur, I am helping other entrepreneurs discover what they may not know yet. And had I known all of these strategies and everything that I do today, you know, I'd be in a different place today. Just because of if somebody would have knocked my door down and said, look, there's a better way of strategizing all of your wealth and and whatever you're trying to build inside your company. And instead of extracting that and paying a bullload of tax, let's do it a different way and let's let's preserve some of that tax.

Dr. William Attaway: 6:08

Yeah. I love that. I love that you are taking what you wish you had known and sharing that and allowing the insights and the wisdom that you have gained along the way now to be a conduit of that. So you can you can see other people benefit. That's such a that's such a giver's heart and mentality. And I think that serves you well. So let's talk about the I love that you focus on entrepreneurs. I do as well. So thinking about the entrepreneurial space, what are some of the mistakes you see people making that you're able to step into and say, hey, hey, hey, hold on just a second.

Mauro Campagnaro: 6:41

It's uh yeah, that's the double-edged sword because at the end of the day, what I don't see is what's behind the scenes that's the key driver of what is that entrepreneur experiencing? Do I understand a hundred percent? I know their their pain points. I understand the difficulties that they're going through. What I don't see from an optics perspective is what are the little nuances that is that are bothering them and keeping them up at night every single night. So with it with a couple of conversations, what I normally do is I get in the conversation and say, okay, well, how are you structured today? Like, do you have an operating company? Okay, well, what does your operating company do? And it depends on the size and scale of the business. I mean, some good some companies are are out there and we can we can work with them. And we're talking about private companies, not public companies. We're talking about private companies, you know, business first for self. It might be a partnership that might be on their own, but they're successful for the most part. Okay, so we're talking 2 million to maybe 50 to 100 million in revenue. Now you've got some real retained earnings. And so now we have with some retained earnings. Well, now we look at the corporate structure and say, well, how are you how are you structured? Do you have an operating company? Do you have a holding company? Is there a trust involved? What are the how are you structured? And then from there, we can start dialing into what are the best ways to structure this and and bolting on these financial tools that we have. And that and that's that's when I'm kind of when I'm dialing into what is what is the the, you know, to answer your question is we what what do I do to help these folks? Well, that's pretty much it. Let's let's see what the landscape looks like first, and then we'll dial into how can I help and assist to mitigate as much tax as possible, then also create some retirement funding. And then from the estate plan, what what are we going to do to pass on as much as possible what you've built today to the next generation if there's a next generation to pass on to, right? And the preservation of wealth is a key component because then what we might even bring philanthropy into this equation, because philanthropy can actually be a very powerful tool in itself.

Dr. William Attaway: 8:41

So when you when you talk about securing that continuity that I mentioned earlier, I mean, thinking not just about today or this quarter or this year, but thinking longer term, succession, things like that. Do you find that people are always ready to have that conversation? Or do they sometimes think, I'm not there yet? Oh, that's later on. Uh maybe in a decade or two.

Mauro Campagnaro: 9:04

Thank you for bringing that. Uh coincidentally, I had a kind of conversation with a younger person last night. As and I just I attended the uh 40 under 40 um event last night uh in Calgary here, and it was it was really interesting to see the the strength and uh and power of some of the these people that are that are you know not even 40 yet, for crying out loud, and they're making change happen in such a tremendous way in our society. I just it was very, very encouraging to see that the next generation is really pushing the envelope and and helping our society out much better. And I like that because those are true leaders in our society. Um when when you when you talk to the some of these folks are saying, well, I'm too young for that. Well, you know what? Here's here's the thing. Stephen Covey, you know, seven habits of uh highly effective people, and and and Brian Tracy, the coincidentally the person that I that I actually uh wrote a book with, uh, they're both aligned in terms of let's think with the end in mind. Yes, yes. And when I was a younger person too, at age 25, I got to know Brian Tracy from the cassettes I was listening to. I read the the the Stephen Covey book, and and it was it was one of those things where it just kind of went, oh, okay, hang on. I don't want to work till I'm 75. Right? Now I'm probably on that trajectory, and it doesn't really matter because at the end of the day, I think you should still still be busy. I think busyness keep keeps your mind fresh. But at the end of the day, I wanted to always look at that. What does that look like? What is when you when you look at your vision, how do you what do you see yourself, where do you see yourself in 10 or 20 or 30 years from now? And that's what we focus on. So at the end of the day, it's not that I'm putting estate planning quote unquote, because what the perception of estate planning is is a broad subject. And and it's like, well, what does that mean? That doesn't mean you're old. It means we're just putting things in place today, so that as a young person, and if it's an insurance policy, you know that insurance costs a lot less for a younger person than it does an older person. Plus, when you're younger, you tend to be healthier than you are when you're older. So, in order to accomplish these things properly, we're gonna do deal with these things today, and it's not just insurance, it's investments as well. With always an eye on what does that look like in the end? So, whatever we do today, it's structuring it for the end game, right? It's like getting a mortgage today, and let's say it's a 25-year amortization. Well, I know I'm gonna own my house in 25 years from now. Similar concept-ish, but at the end of the day, what we put today at the foundation today is gonna accomplish what you want to accomplish in 25, 30 years from now, right?

Dr. William Attaway: 11:38

You know, I love that. But it does take a growth mindset. You know, and I love that that's one of the things that you focus on is helping these entrepreneurs to understand that you know the the grit, the drive, the hustle that got you to this point, you know, that's great. But it's not gonna take you to the next level. And you've got to begin thinking in a different way when you're thinking longer term, particularly around exit strategies.

Mauro Campagnaro: 12:03

Correct. Yeah, particularly around exit strategies. And and it and and it and I love it. I mean, you you you hit it. You got the fire in the belly, you know what you're doing, you're dialed in, you're accomplishing feats that nobody else has accomplished because of your mindset, primarily. Because true successful entrepreneurs have a very positive mindset, and they just they'll see a barrier and they'll go, okay, that's just a challenge. We'll just figure out a way and we'll pivot around it and we'll get over that hump, right? And that's it, the true grit of a successful entrepreneur. What I do is just say, okay, you know what, that's fantastic. Let's take that, let's take that same attitude and let's apply it towards you, the individual, who said, you know what, I got a dream. And here's my dream. This is what I want to accomplish in my life, and here's what I want to do for either whatever motivates you. What is it that motivates you, and why did you get into this business? The why is really the answer as to what we're trying to find out. Why did you do this? Are you excited? Do you get up in the morning excited about what you're doing? You know, I to quote Kevin O'Leary, you know, one of the one of the sharks there. He says, Look, if you're not doing what you're passionate about, get out. You know. What does he say? He says, take it behind the barn and shoot it. But at the end of the day, if you're not passionate about it, then you know what, you might want to address that. But at the end of the day, let's say, let's say these successful entrepreneurs are passionate about what they're doing. And all we're trying to do is say, look, you've done everything right today. Now what we're gonna do is we're just gonna take what you're doing right and we're gonna position a place where you are gonna benefit from it. Because you know who gets paid last as an entrepreneur? You. That's right. And so let's take all of your effort and make sure that it's not all for naught, so to speak, so that we can actually preserve a lot of that blood, sweat, and tears, I call it, right? And so you've done everything you you had to do to get this thing to be successful. Well, now we're gonna try to preserve that wealth for you because you didn't do this just as you know, for charity. You did it to earn something, I'm going to assume. So that's where that's that's pretty much the goal.

Dr. William Attaway: 14:12

You know, I I love this first that you're helping people in such a very tangible way that is so needed. But I think I what I love equally is the fact that you're speaking out of your own experience as an entrepreneur. You know, and you're helping people understand things that I'm guessing you didn't understand early on. And like you said, if you could go back and apply a lot of what you're talking about today, the things you know now, your life would look a little bit different. Have you seen examples of clients that you're working with that that stand out? You're like, you know, they actually did the work. They actually took it and applied it and it has caused a dramatic difference. Can you think of an example that you could share?

Mauro Campagnaro: 14:53

Yes. So um there's a couple of there's a couple of examples where one individual, you know, I obviously can't name names here, but I'm just trying to I'm trying to, you know, I'm trying to be as as as you know uh uh um obscure as possible, but this is one individual who's a who's a retired, very successful, very successful, had a significant amount of money, let's put it that way, in his operating company, which never ended up being anything but a holding company at the end of the day. And so when we you know you refer to some in most instances, that would be more of a professional where they've got a professional corpse, so a doctor, not so much a dentist, but a doctor, let's say a physician, where they've got a professional corp, where that professional corp might not be anything other than a mechanism to flow cash through. This individual was in a different space, but it was it was still consulting type of business, right? And he had this significant amount of money sitting in this in this operating company, which at the end of the day became a holding company because there's there there was it was the end of the operation, but I I said to suggested to him, look, you've got a million bucks in here. Well, it was a million or more. And and I said, You got enough money that that you've got to uh do some some strategic things to get this money out. You know, normally when you go to see your accountant, and most people think that the accountant is the holy grail of of planning. I love my accountants and I I they I partner with them and they are a significant piece of the puzzle. However, um, and I have to be be very respectful of this profession because at the end of the day, they are educated to help us mitigate as much as possible. But what they're what I'm finding is that they're not proactive. So so when they and they don't see the whole picture, they're kind of looking at it from one angle saying, okay, what did you do? What kind of mess did you make? And let me let me coordinate that mess so we can do what I can do at this point to mitigate tax. But what my position is, is I'm a I'm a planner. So when we say with it from the beginning, you know, we look at the end in mind is saying, okay, well, what are you doing today? And what can we do to help you bridge that gap to get to the next level? During that journey, we need the accountant. And we also need a lawyer. So from a triangular perspective, every entrepreneur needs three advisors in their business. They must have, okay? And you must choose your financial planner very carefully. Because not everybody understands all of the strategies. So I would recommend you do interview a few different advisors that you uh, you know, have you been recommended to or whatever, but interview them and understand what they know about all these different strategies and how they can actually help you as an entrepreneur. So get a good advisor, is is my recommendation. And then, you know, do they have the team? Do they have a good accountant that understands the strategies we might be putting into place? And then we have the lawyer. Now the lawyer's going to take part all, you know, take care of all of the legal ease proportions of this strategy. So we, you know, from a triangular, I would say to the triangle, make sure you've got the right people in place to help you get to the next level. And so, anyway, that's an example of this individual having this money sitting in this company, and we put, we bolted on the strategies onto that so that we could, we we never gonna we're never gonna get anything tax-free unless we're going through what they call the CDA account, okay, and in the corporation. And that's after the fact, after somebody passes away. But at the end of the day, um, what we're trying to do is mitigate a lot of tax and avoid and avoid legally, obviously, taking this money out of your corporation, growing it in a tax-free environment, okay, and then bringing it back to you as the individual. In some way, shape, or form, either it's going to be through the corporation or it's going to be outside the corporation. But at the end of the day, we're we're making sure that the the pieces are put together properly with the accountant's help. Okay. So in your case, it would be IRA, are we here at CRA? So at the end of the day, we're we're we're making sure that they're happy with the strategy and and and everybody is on board, above board.

Dr. William Attaway: 19:04

Yeah. Okay. I like that holistic approach. You know, so often I think we tend to compartmentalize the things that you're talking about. You know, your planner, your accountant, your your lawyer, and they're not really working together as a team. What you're describing is a very holistic, integrated approach where they are where they're aware of what each other's doing and they're making sure that they are making decisions with the whole in mind. That's that's a that's a phenomenal strategy.

Mauro Campagnaro: 19:32

Yeah, 100%. Uh you know, and and who's the leader? Well, the entrepreneur is the leader. Yeah. So if you're if you're leading your team and you're being successful, then all you're doing is reverse engineering that and saying, Okay, you know what, I gotta I gotta bring my team together for me. That's it. That's it. Right. And say, you know what, who's my advisor, who's my accountant, who's my lawyer? And then we're let we're all gonna get in the same room where We're all going to have a conversation together and respectfully understand each other's piece in the puzzle and have each you know professional courtesy for each other or other, but allow the entrepreneur the opportunity to say, guys, help me out here. How do we take what I'm doing today? Get to the next level, and let's mitigate as much tax as possible. Now, everybody got, you know, respectfully you got to pay tax. We've got to pay tax because it keeps our society together. Sure. But at the end of the day, they they've allowed us strategies to mitigate some of it. And as an entrepreneur, that is your, I don't know, your strategic plan uh plan because at the end of the day, you're taking all the risk. You're taking all the risk as an entrepreneur and and and you're employing people. So there is a little bit of benefit for you for doing so. And then if you can, you know, add that other piece, which is let's save a little tax and bring that out to us, the individual, in a better way, then that's the kind of the idea.

Dr. William Attaway: 20:58

Right. And I think you that's exactly right. Entrepreneurs create jobs. You know, that's that's really what we do. Yeah. And when we do that well, you know, there are ways to make sure that we are paying the tax that we owe. And I think we should do that. I think that's that's a moral imperative. I just don't think we should pay more than we owe.

Mauro Campagnaro: 21:15

Correct. Yeah. Yeah. And I think in the spirit of building a true uh looking for the the the American dream, so to speak, or the Canadian dream, which is the entrepreneurial spirit, the free enterprise. That's right. You have to give some advantages back to the individuals that are taking these risks. That's exactly right. In order to do so. Because if not, what what would be the compelling reason to do so? Right. So yeah, I think that sums it up right there.

Dr. William Attaway: 21:44

Yeah, risk reward. Right? I mean, the greater the risk, the greater the potential reward. Um so uh Mar, let me ask you this. You know, you have to lead your team, your clients, at a higher level today than you did five, ten years ago. And that same thing is gonna be true five years from now. How do you stay on top of your game? How do you level up with the new leadership skills that you're gonna need to have to lead at that higher level in the days ahead?

Mauro Campagnaro: 22:11

The first thing that comes to mind is education. No one will ever know at all. No, no. Right? And so it takes time, it takes a lot of grit, and it takes a lot of persistence and be tenacious in terms of what I don't know, I need to know, and I want to know. And that's and that's my angle all the time is is who are the people and who are the organizations that I'm going to access this information from. So I look for other leaders and and and educational institutions that are going to supply that education to me, which just level levels up my game. I'm always trying to level up my game because at the end of the day, yes, I know enough to be very uh very good at what I do. It's just at the end of the day, I again I don't know everything. So if a client asks me a particular question that I don't really know the complete answer to, I'll say, look, you know what, let me get let me research that. As my accountant says to me, and I love it, because I I really respect somebody who says, Look, I don't know that in the in the way I should know it. I know enough about it, but I don't want to be incorrect in how I explain exactly how this process works. So let me go find a little bit more information and I'm not gonna chat it. I'm gonna chat yes, but at the end of the day, I'm gonna validate what chat gave back to me, and I'm gonna go to the actual institution or I'm gonna go to the spread the leader that knows this answer. And I also may bring those people into the conversation with the client too, just because they're such an expert at what they do, I will bring those people into the conversation. That's good. I like that.

Dr. William Attaway: 23:44

You know, we we talked a little bit about this, but I'm I'm curious if you had the ability to go back and talk to 25-year-old you knowing what you know now, what would you love to go back and tell yourself?

Mauro Campagnaro: 24:00

Don't sweat the small stuff. I like it. Focus, focus, focus on the big stuff. Chatter, banter, what people say. That's one piece. The other piece is do what you love to do and don't waste time. I sometimes felt during my career I was selling my soul, selling something that just didn't align with my core values. It was not good for you, it was something that uh maybe the company's culture wasn't right for me. Uh there's a lot of a lot of wasted time in your 20s and 30s where you're still trying to find yourself. Where do you fit into the equation? What is your your strengths? And I know it's a difficult question when you're you're you're you're you're going through the motions of of of adulthood and you're you're like, okay, where do I fit in this puzzle? Yeah. It's not an easy answer to, you know, it's not easy to answer, but at the end of the day, I just encourage people to do what's in their heart and what they really feel passionate about doing. What gets you up in the morning, what gets your brain moving and saying, Well, if I could only just do this, or if I could, you know, if I could just create this or do something like that. Here's here's a beautiful thing that that I don't I don't think they and I don't know, I mean I'm I'm just docking out of school here, but maybe the young don't understand the difference between when I grew up in this world and when what what's available to them today.

Speaker 3: 25:30

Yeah.

Mauro Campagnaro: 25:31

Okay, I never had a cell phone when I graduated university and there was no internet. So today, with the internet and the cell phone, these are such powerful tools that people don't really understand the power of them and and the potential of you just literally getting online and and maybe teaching something to somebody that you have knowledge about. There's no inventory. You don't have to buy inventory. You're just explaining something that somebody, you never know whose life you're gonna change, but you've just told somebody that you've you've you've changed their life just because of the one or a couple of things you've said. They're gonna go, aha, wow, I heard I'm glad I heard that. So don't discount what you know today, right? You've learned a few things. You know something today. Don't discount the fact that you don't know something. I don't, I don't encourage you to go out and build a business or buying inventory and doing all that kind of stuff. That's that's very risky business. But knowledge, knowledge today is an amazing tool. And if you have something to share, don't be afraid to share it. Just don't be afraid to share it. Be very courageous and do it. You will, you will, by doing so and stretching your boundaries, you will discover things about yourself that it that are just amazing. So yeah, I always encourage people just push. You've got the technology today. I didn't have this opportunity when I when I was a young adult. I just didn't have these opportunities. That's so good.

Dr. William Attaway: 26:54

All right, this is this has been so fantastic. I'm so grateful to you for sharing so generously from your experience and your journey so far. And like I said earlier, I think your best is still ahead. And I can't wait to see what's going to happen next with you. I know our listeners are gonna want to stay connected to you and continue to learn more from you and about what you're doing. What's the best way for them to do that?

Mauro Campagnaro: 27:16

Appreciate that, William. Very good. Well, I've got my in my website right there. So it's uh campignarowealth.ca or simplified one that I went to, which is cwa.life. So cwa.life is my website. Nice. That's probably the best way they can get a hold of me and uh if they want to have a conversation about anything. You know, for for anybody listening to this internationally, at the end of the day, what I can do is maybe some consulting as far as your business is concerned. I I you know I have my success for as far as doubling the profits and doubling the the revenue of the company that I participated with as their vice president. Now, that's on the consulting side, so I can do that internationally, but from a from a a pretty pure financial planning standpoint, I am only licensed in Canada. And so at that point, that's that's kind of where the buck stops on on that on that piece of my of my experience that I can help with, right?

Dr. William Attaway: 28:08

Sounds like you can help people wherever they are with at least one thing. And I'll at least one thing.

Mauro Campagnaro: 28:12

Yes, yeah.

Dr. William Attaway: 28:13

I love it. And for our Canadian friends, if you don't have somebody who in your life who is doing what Morrow's doing, I think it's time. So make that connection. Mauro, thank you again so much for today.

Mauro Campagnaro: 28:26

Thank you so much. Thank you very much for the time and we've spent together. Appreciate it very much.