Catalytic Leadership

Your Business Growth Playbook for More Profit (Without More Leads)

• Dr. William Attaway • Season 4 • Episode 17

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When your agency is growing, but profit stalls, client churn rises, and your team feels the pressure, it’s easy to wonder which lever to pull next. In this episode, I’m joined by Jeremy Shapiro, a seasoned serial entrepreneur with 25+ years of experience whose work has helped business owners break through growth plateaus using a simple, powerful framework he calls the Business Growth Playbook.

We break down the practical levers behind profit expansion, customer lifetime value, pricing strategy, and the hidden churn patterns that quietly cap your growth. If you’ve been relying on more leads to fix what is actually a systems, retention, or profitability bottleneck, this conversation brings the clarity you’ve been looking for.

You’ll walk away with tactical steps you can implement immediately, from value-based pricing to tightening your retention engine, so you can scale with intention, increase profitability, and build a healthier, more sustainable agency.

BOOKS MENTIONED

  • Your Business Growth Playbook by Jeremy Shapiro

Get your hands on Jeremy’s full playbook of tried and true strategies today in his latest book Your Business Growth Playbook available on Amazon or at your local bookstore. If you’d like a sample of his book right now, an audio overview of the entire playbook, and your very own complimentary growth checklist, visit YourBusinessGrowthPlaybook.com right now. You can also connect with him on LinkedIn at LinkedIn.com/in/jeremyshapiro/



Join Dr. William Attaway on the Catalytic Leadership podcast as he shares transformative insights to help high-performance entrepreneurs and agency owners achieve Clear-Minded Focus, Calm Control, and Confidence.

Connect with Dr. William Attaway:

Dr. William Attaway:

I'm so excited today to have Jeremy Shapiro back on the podcast. Jeremy is a seasoned serial entrepreneur with over 25 years of experience. Since 1996, his businesses have consistently served fellow entrepreneurs. He is dedicated to helping established business owners break through plateaus, scale their businesses, and achieve true entrepreneurial freedom. Jeremy's expertise comes from a rich background of launching and growing his own ventures, including those that provided the freedom to live abroad with passive income, as well as extensive work with individual entrepreneurs through one-on-one coaching, consulting, small group masterminds, workshops, and speaking engagements. He's known for his ability to simplify complex ideas and provide practical, actionable insights. His mission is to help business owners transition from being a solopreneur to a true business owner, working on their business rather than just in it. His new book, Your Business Growth Playbook, provides practical, tried and true strategies that Jeremy has refined through his own businesses, his coaching, his consulting, and his mastermind groups. It's designed to be a guide for developing a personalized playbook, empowering business owners to choose and implement the right strategies to increase not just revenue, but also profits. The emphasis is on action, driving change, moving beyond just having great ideas that never see the light of day. Jeremy, it's so good to see you again. Thanks for being back on the show. Thanks so much for inviting me on. I'm so excited to be here.

Intro:

Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed to help leaders intentionally grow and thrive. Here is your host, author, and leadership and executive coach, Dr. William Attaway.

Dr. William Attaway:

Man, I'm so enjoying your new book. And I want to have you talk about that. And I want to dive deep into that. For those who don't know you, they just heard that introduction. What would you add to that? What's something that you would say, hey, you may not know this, but this is something about me. It's worth knowing.

Jeremy Shapiro:

Yeah, I think you covered so uh so many great bigger points there uh in my background and who I am. But uh one thing that I think is kind of fun is that I think my last, like, quote, job was like during my high school years. Uh, my first real business was actually while I was still in high school. And by real business, I mean like with multiple clients and team members and you know, growing revenues and product lines and all that. And ever since then, every one of my businesses has either been like a spin-off of an existing business or a sort of like sister business that supports the same core customers. Uh it's been a really just incredible journey over the decades in working exclusively with business owners, um, helping them to grow and scale their businesses and find what we call that true entrepreneurial freedom.

Dr. William Attaway:

You know, what I love about you is that you're not just about finding the answers for yourself and your businesses, right? You are constantly trying to be a conduit of what you're learning, sharing that with your clients, with those that you work with, with the world at large through your writing. I think that generous spirit is really powerful. And I just want to call that out for our listeners because that is not true of everyone. Yeah. Well, I appreciate you calling out with us.

Jeremy Shapiro:

You sharing that. Um I've I've been called before like a dot connector. Um, I love seeing the patterns and like the way the place we get that data, um, at least for me, is from working with so many different business owners. And when you start to see the commonalities and challenges, and then the commonality on the solution side, that becomes sort of the source of these generalized solutions that can be applied to so many different businesses deeply. As business owners, everyone likes to think you know, they have a unique snowflake of a business, that they're the only one to face the problem they're facing today. And I always find comfort in knowing whatever the challenge I'm facing, whether it's in business or in relationships or in life or in whatever, that I'm probably not the first one to face that challenge. And that there's wisdom out there, right? So whatever it is you're facing, whether it's in parenting or finance or you know, career, right, there are others who've been there before who face that challenge and have found a way through. So, you know, seek out that wisdom and share what you can find.

Dr. William Attaway:

That's so good. You know, there's a lot of reasons why people write books. You know, uh some people think they're gonna write a book and they're going to make a million dollars, you know, in the next week from that book. Um as as an author, I try to disabuse people of that notion because that has not been the experience of of really myself or anybody that I know personally. Yes. So let's start there. Why did you write this book? It's it's a labor of love. We were talking about that before we hit record, right? It this is not a small endeavor.

Jeremy Shapiro:

Why jump in? It's interesting. You know, uh there are many different reasons that that author has published. Um, for me, I found that, you know, when I was working with business owners, whether one-on-one or in workshops or small group masterminds, the challenges that would come up would start to repeat, and I'd hear a common theme, right? And very often what I'd hear from business owners is that they'd plateaued or they're feeling stuck and they're looking for some kind of breakthrough. Like what got them to where they are now was no longer getting them to the next level. And I've experienced that firsthand and seen that with so many business owners as well over the years. So when we look at where they're stuck and more importantly, how to get unstuck and back to the growth they deserve, there is a playbook. And I didn't realize at the time, but there was a simple formula I kept coming back to again and again and again. And then when we look at that formula, there's like three key variables in that, right? These three different levers you can pull in your business. And if you adjust any one of those, it can get you back not just to increasing revenues, but more importantly, to increasing profits. And so I was coming back to the same playbook again and again that was really up here in my mind, right? Like I knew to go from that, but I hadn't codified that for our business owners out there to do on their own. So I started writing more about that. And that got some really good traction. I'd run some workshops and helped folks, you know, in group format to get back to growth. And we were just using the same playbook again and again. And so this labor of love, you know, my book is called Your Business Growth Playbook, is meant to be used as an interactive playbook. You can jump into it, go to the section you need, right? Implement a strategy, get a result, and come back to the playbook. So you get to come back to this again and again and again as you level up and then want to keep doing that again, over and over. And so that tool is now available for business owners to use so they can, you know, do this self-paced, right? You could implement best strategies that have worked for small businesses as well as I use examples not just of you know clients I've worked with, but also the big name brands that we all know. Because guess what? Like they use the same playbook and the same kinds of strategies too. So you get to see sort of the the case studies on both ends of that spectrum.

Dr. William Attaway:

I love that. Again, there's that generosity in sharing what you've learned. This is a this is a really powerful book. The levers that you're describing are ones that every business owner has the ability to touch and to pull. This is not just for once you hit a certain size or just when you're starting out. This is across the spectrum. Can you talk a little bit about the levers?

Jeremy Shapiro:

Yeah. So where these work best is when you have an established business, you're generating revenue, you have a funnel or flow of customers and prospects coming into the business, right? If you're still at the stage of thinking of starting a business, it's a little premature for this. It's good to know about it, right? So you're aware of those levers in the business. But really, this works best when you have that flow of customers, but like revenue is just plateaued, right? So within the formula, we have the three key variables, F, A, and Q. And a lot of most of the books and things out there really focus on Q, right? And that comes down to increasing the quantity of customers or how many people are coming in. That generally is like marketing and sales channels and things that fill the top of your funnel, bringing in more prospects and customers. And that's great. We cover that in the book, but there's really a ton of education out there on those topics, right? But the other two levers, the F and the A, that's where I find there's so much value because most business owners don't know about those, or more importantly, how to adjust those. And as an avid reader myself, you know, I love reading books, uh specifically business books, right? Always have. Um, I always found that most books get you excited about the why, and they get you excited about the what. Right. So you realize, for example, in reading a book, I'll share with you for me, uh, you know, we've all heard about core values in business, right? Sure. I heard so many speakers from stage talk about why it's important to have core values in your company, mission, vision, purpose, and all that. And I got excited about that. And then you get the books and they talk about the what. So you learn about what core values are and the why. But no one ever wants to talk about the how. And that always frustrated me because the answer to the how in so many business books is oh, go hire the author or you know, go work with the company. They're using it for lead gen, which that's great, but I get all excited reading a book and want to go implement it because I'm a tactical guy and I'm left empty-handed unless I want to go engage with the business. So it was really important to me as an author to not do that and instead be solution focused. And that's why I have a playbook with the tactics in there. So not only do you know the why, and not only do you know the what, but I also provide the how. So you can go out there and actually implement these things in your business, not left wondering what it is you need to do.

Dr. William Attaway:

You know, it's so good. Uh, that was one of the things that jumped out at me was how tactical this book is. This is not theory. This is not, like you say, the the the what and the why and go figure out the how or hire me. This isn't that. This gets me into a place where I'm like, okay, yeah, uh, man, I want to take this, I want to take this to my team, and I want to start to delegate some of this. I want us to start executing on this. I want to make this happen.

Jeremy Shapiro:

Yeah, I know some of the earlier uh some of the editorial reviews we were getting early on said things like, you know, dog ear this book, come back to it again and again. Like this is not just a book you read through and you feel good and you put it back on the shelf. No, it's meant to be next to you so you can crack it open, bookmark the pages of the things you want to get done. We even have a, you know, one of the later chapters in the book is your personal action plan. It's where you're gonna put down what it is you're going to implement from the book because the idea is to implement this. And I'll share with you a story I cover in the book about the British cycling team. I'm an avid road cyclist myself, love the world of cycling, and uh I was really you know um uh intrigued to find a story from the world of cycling that's so applicable to business. The British cycling team was one of the worst in the world. They'd gone like decades and decades and decades being an awful team. They were like almost dead last on the world's uh world bike racing scene. Um, until they brought in some new management. And one of the things new management looked at was this idea of marginal gains or incremental gains. So they looked at what are all the things we can do to get that competitive edge to grow just a little bit. And so they did all kinds of interesting experiments. Like, well, what if we have all of our riders do a really good job like washing their hands before they sit down to eat? Like, okay, well, that seems like you should do it anyways, but let's make sure we really enforce that. Because if we can keep people from getting a cold, that's X number of days that they're still training versus having a loss on their fitness and everything else, that means a cold's not spreading all these things. So, like, what would that mean? Right? What if we paint the insides of the trucks white? You might be wondering like, why would you paint the insides of the team trucks white? Well, then you can spot dust and dirt and those kinds of things more easily, which means you can keep those clean, which means the equipment can stay cleaner, which means fewer mechanical issues, and the bikes are in much, much better shape, right? All these little, little things. And what they're looking for is like that little 1% incremental difference. And what's powerful about that is if every day they're trying out little things to get a 1% marginal gain, that's actually compounding. You know, there's a quote attributed to various different folks from you know Buffett to Albert Einstein to, you know, everyone else about the eighth wonder of the world being compound interest, right? That the dollar you save today, you know, with growth over time, has a compounding interest. And that same concept of compounding interest applies to marginal gains, that when you have a 1% improvement, the next 1% improvement builds on that 1% improvement you've already gained. So if you're constantly sharpening and finding that additional edge, the growth is tremendous. And so in this playbook, the same concept as there. I'm not looking for you to read the book and find one thing you'll try one time. Right? You implement one of these strategies, you see your gain, you come back and add another strategy on and see your gain, and you keep building on that. And the playbook is something you can come back to again and again as a tactical, practical guide to get you back to growth.

Dr. William Attaway:

You know, I love what you said about that earlier review about dog earing the book. That is something you come back to again and again. I I bought the book on Kindle and I read a lot of books that way because I've always got my phone with me, like most of us. But I didn't get a third of the way through it before I was like, okay, I got to get a paper copy of this. Yeah. Because I want to make notes. I want to dog ear some stuff, right? I want to take some pictures and send it to various members of the team. This is one of those books. And this is why I was so excited to have you on the show, to be able to share this with our listeners. This is one you're gonna want to get your hands on. I want to jump into something that really I think people talk about, but don't really understand. You this this jumped out at me in chapter four. You talk about understanding customer lifetime value. Yeah. Creating lifetime customers. I've heard a lot of people talk about this, but I have not heard anybody talk about it like you did in the book. Can you share a little bit about that?

Jeremy Shapiro:

Yeah. So one of the really important numbers that we need to know in our business is what the value of a customer is, right? Many of us think in terms of transactions, we look at you know, daily receipts in a business, or we look at monthly gross revenue, but rarely do business owners stop and look at what an actual customer is worth. And when you know what one of your customers is worth, that can do a lot of really powerful things for you. One is when you know how much you'll make from a customer, that can inform you how much you can spend to acquire a customer, right? And when you know how much you're willing to spend to acquire a customer, you can start to outspend your competition to acquire a customer, right? So let's say, for example, you and another, you know, quote, competitor sell the same widget, right? The same commodity item, which I'd, you know, advise folks not to have a commodity, but let's just say you've got a widget that you sell for, you know, $50, right? If your profit margin on that is, say, $10, then many businesses would think the absolute most you could spend to acquire that customer is $10. Now, if your business has a back end and you're able to generate more money just by that customer being in the fold and being part of your company, then you might realize that your true customer lifetime value might be $500. So if you're willing to spend, say, $20 to acquire a customer, you'll be negative up front. But if you know it only takes you, say, 30, 45 days to come back into a profitable relationship, you might be willing to outspend your quote competitor, who's only viewing that as the $10 they've got to spend. And now you're able to bring on customers and make a lot more money with them. So until you know what your customer lifetime value is, you don't know what to adjust, whether that's how much you spend to acquire them, right? Or what you can do in terms of churn. Right. So for any of our businesses that have a continuity component, think membership program, subscription, and so on, where customers are paying you like monthly or annually, right? Yeah. You're gonna have churn. And this is a number that if you don't know how to calculate, you don't know how to adjust. Right. So when we look at figuring out churn, we figure out how many customers we have at the start of a time frame, call it monthly or yearly, are the two most common time periods, right? So you look at how many customers are on your continuity program at the start of that. You then look at how many you lose over that same time period, right? We're not worried about the gain, right? How many we gain matters for the following month. So if we think easy numbers, let's say you have a thousand customers at the start of the month. If you were to lose a hundred of those customers over the month, right, that's a 10% churn. You've lost 10% of your customers. It doesn't matter if you've gained 200 customers, right? You've lost a hundred of them. So at the start of the next month, we had a thousand, we gained 200, we lost a hundred. The start of the next month, you're looking at the fact that you now have 1,100 customers, which that looks good because there's net growth, but the fact is you had a 10% monthly churn. Right? That is so costly. So if we can do something to trim that churn down, right, that's putting money back in your pocket. Because let's just say we're making up numbers here, membership is $100 a month. If a customer stays with you, let's say eight months, right, you now know that customer is worth about $800, $100 over that eight months. If you're able to reduce that churn and keep them with you, say two months longer, right, you're now going from an $800 customer lifetime value to $1,000. That's a pretty good improvement, right? While most business owners are focusing on how do we bring more customers in, you have a whole pile of customers, you're losing out the back for usually four main reasons, right, why you're going to turn those customers. If we can make small tweaks to keep them with you just a little bit longer, you're not paying to acquire new customers and you're keeping ones you already have. That is so valuable. And there's a lot of great examples of businesses and industries that do a phenomenal job on retention and keeping customers with them a long time. And we can learn from them. And we can implement, and we do implement those same strategies to reduce that churn and increase your customer lifetime value. And there's a lot of ways you can do that, um, but reducing churn is certainly one of those.

Dr. William Attaway:

You know, I think I think what you're hitting on here is something that every business owner who's listening needs to pay attention to. To reduce your churn is one of the best ways to grow your business. It really is. And we like you say we focus so much on acquisition. Yeah, right. Getting new customers like lead gen, all the and all that's important. But if you're if your back door is wide open and people are just flowing out the back, you're eventually gonna have a real problem because you can't acquire as fast as a wide backdoor is gonna let them leave. Well, and here's the eventually it's gonna catch up with you.

Jeremy Shapiro:

We pay for customer acquisition one time, right? Right. So in the example we were using before, let's say you're spending $10, $20 to acquire a new customer, right? And by the way, in some industries, paying $500 to $2,000 to acquire a new customer is good money, right? So, you know, it depends what industry you're in. Whatever the number is for your business, you should, by the way, know what it costs to acquire a customer. And in in SaaS parlance, this would be called your CAC or your customer acquisition cost, right? That's right. You should know what that number is, right? And when you do, you now know this is a fixed cost. You pay one time to bring a customer in. Wouldn't it behoove us as business owners to improve that ROI not by reducing our customer acquisition cost per se, but increasing the customer lifetime value. There's a ratio that we want to look at, which is the ratio of our customer acquisition cost to that customer lifetime value. And we deal with ratios. Sorry if we're getting too nerdy on the math here, right? We can improve our ratio by either adjusting the numerator or the denominator. So we can reduce customer acquisition cost or we can increase customer lifetime value. Either one of those gets a similar result.

Dr. William Attaway:

Yes. And we'll ultimately make your business more profitable and better over time. This is the challenge, though. People focus so much on acquisition and less on retention.

Jeremy Shapiro:

Exactly.

Dr. William Attaway:

And they do have those hot. I was talking to somebody last week, a 12% churn rate. And I was like, okay, you've got to focus on that. And they were completely focused on acquisition. I'm like, all you have to do, all you have to do is just extend by a couple months. Look at what that is. We ran the numbers. We ran them right there on the call. And they're like, oh my goodness. And I'm like, you are leaving this on the table. This money is walking out the door. Right. What why would you not focus here as a business owner?

Jeremy Shapiro:

The interesting thing too is, you know, when we look at customer acquisition costs and the scalability, one of the things we often find is within a given channel, as you try and scale that up, you encounter diminishing returns, right? That's right. Um, you know, I've seen this all the time. You might be spending, you know, $20,000 on your ad words per month and getting a four to one return, right? For each dollar out, you get $4 back in. Right. You go to $30,000 in ad spend, and that now goes to three to one, right? You go to $40,000 in ad spend, you go to two to one, right? So your ROI starts to shrink as you saturate a channel. Right. So the solution isn't to growth always just scaling up a given channel, right? Sometimes we've got to look at reducing that back end churn. Other times, though, there's a very different approach, which I love, which is uh, and this is a common strategy from the playbook we talk about, is simply looking at our prices. Very often as business owners, we set our price and we don't think to go back and reevaluate from time to time, especially in service-based businesses where you've placed a market value on you and your time and what it is your company provides. Yes. Inflation comes along, right? Business comes along, your calendar gets full, but we have a perceived notion of what our time or what our service or product is worth. Right. Uh there was a business owner I was working with. Um, she had established a new business as a solopreneur and had scaled pretty quickly to a six-figure business on her own. And someone had reached out to her and asked her, like, hey, could could you teach us your business model? We want to start the same business you're doing. Um, can you show us how to do that? And so this client of mine had said to me, Well, you know, I'm trying to figure out what to charge them. And so I was thinking, like, you know, maybe a thousand bucks, uh, I could teach them the whole business model, but I've got to cover the cost of my flights in the hotel and meals, so maybe a little more than that. And she was thinking about like what her time was worth on an hourly basis to go out and teach the whole business model for a day. And I'm looking at this saying, hold on, you're gonna teach someone all the lessons you've learned to launch their six-figure business. You're charging them a thousand bucks. And you're trying to figure out how you're gonna cover the cost of your flights and hotels with that. I'm like, hold on. Like, they should be covering all your travel expenses, right? This is easily a five-figure or higher engagement because you're giving them a business and a box that they can go just launch or run on their own as an owner-operator small business, part-time, right? Yes. And so we simply added a zero, right? And that, and that which is where I got the nickname, you know, Jeremy at a zero Shapiro, um, from that conversation. Because like that is uncomfortable for some service providers to think about putting a zero on the end of their pricing, right? Yes. And so the most difficult part was not just accepting the idea that, you know, you don't have to go um with a time-based value, you can go with a value-based pricing model, right? So swallowing that pill of others telling you, no, no, no, you're worth it. And here's the value you're delivering. That was, you know, obstacle number one. The second was she had to present that price, right? And so we we said, like, look, you say it in front of the mirror, right? You get comfortable saying it, as silly as it sounds. And wouldn't you know she presented the opportunity uh to this prospect uh of a five-figure engagement to come out and teach this. And they said, Yeah, that sounds good, right? Which which should tell you like it probably could have gone even higher, right? But at least she got over that hump to present that price. So very often we see simply tweaking a price on the front end can make a big difference in business. And if you've got a continuity business, this is really interesting because this is recurring revenue. So let's say, for example, you have a $50 a month subscription service, right? And your profit margin is $10. So if we were to increase your pricing to $60, it's a modest price increase. It's not the end of the world, right? And we're not saying go change this on all your existing customers. You can simply A B test your landing page, one with the normal pricing that you've established and one with with an experimental price. And we can look at your conversions. Well, wouldn't you know if you're able to bring a customer in at 60 versus 50, your profit margin just went your profit went from 10 to 20. So a modest price increase just 2x your profit. You could technically afford to convert at 50% of what you were previously doing and still make the same profit. Right? And the reality is that's rarely the case, right? Typically, you don't see any change in your conversion or even uh, you know, sometimes even a lift, right? But even with a small reduction, you've now still doubled your profit on every single customer coming in. So sometimes experimenting, even just with what our pricing is, can yield really big gains right out the door.

Dr. William Attaway:

How often do you think people should evaluate their pricing model?

Jeremy Shapiro:

Yeah, it's a good question. It depends, right? I'm a huge fan of value-based pricing. So for our listeners to have like a commodity widget where you're just one of a million sellers on Amazon selling stuff, well, that's pretty challenging, right? You want to find a way to get into more of a what's called like a blue ocean versus a red ocean. If you haven't read that book, you know, that's a good book to read. You don't want to be perceived uh as just a commodity in a competitive market. You want your ideal customer to see you as the solution who gets them, right? When you are the only option within whatever niche you've created, you have a lot more flexibility on testing your pricing and figuring out where that should be. And when we're able to go with a value-based pricing where someone can think about the return on investment of what they spend with you, and the value is still multiples higher than what you're charging, you're in a great place. Right? So um, it's something good to look at at the very minimum, like once a year. But, you know, two to four times a year to check your pricing is not a bad thing, right? Um, we talk about uh in the book, I talk about funnels, right? Um we all have a funnel in our business. It might be that you have a click on an ad or a search engine listing to your website. From your website, you then have an opt-in. From an opt-in, you have an email confirmation or a call schedule or a purchase or whatever, right? You have these steps in your funnel to when someone becomes a customer. And we like to look at the conversion rates at each step of those funnels and then what little tweaks we can make to improve the conversions. And here's something interesting about improving the conversions on our funnel. If at any point you have a 100% conversion rate, there actually might be a problem there, right? There's something, there's something about having a funnel that's too effective that is indicative of a problem. Right. So if, for example, um every one of your prospects who you present the price to buys without question, that is a really good signal that your pricing is probably too low. Right. Um we had a we had a customer we're working with, they had had a services-based business, and this was a really interesting and wonderful problem, is to take on new clients, there's typically a multi-month waiting period. So someone would say, Yes, we want to work with you, and they'd say, Great, we can book you two, three months out. So one of the things we talked about doing, obviously, one is scaling operations, right, to be able to handle more customers, right? But the second was the idea of putting an expedite fee in to say to customers, like, you know, because these are five to six figure engagements, right? Right. So these are customers who are already spending some good money. So we put the idea out there of having um an expedite fee so customers could essentially buy their way to the front of the line, right? We've all seen this, whether it's a rush shipping fee or paying for overnight shipping or whatever. We're used to the idea of you can buy your way to faster service. So they put the expedite fee in place, and a funny thing happened. Every single client they offered that to said yes and bought the expedite fee. Which tells us a few things, right? Like one, we should have been offering this, you know, earlier. Um, two, they weren't charging nearly enough, right? Because if everyone's saying yes to it, well, then we've got to raise that price point while we again concurrently, you know, increase the fulfillment side effects, right? So we raise the price because what we want is that some say yes to an expedite fee, but not all, right? So the 100% conversion actually tells us there's a problem. And so you raise it to the point that not everyone takes you up on it. We've seen this like at Disney World and stuff, right, as well, right? If everyone takes the fast lane or everyone buys the priority or whatever it is, then we have a problem. Right. If everyone buys the first class ticket, the first class ticket wasn't charged high enough on the flight, and so on and so on. So that's good. Looking at the 100% conversion might tell you you have an opportunity there to bring that pricing up.

Dr. William Attaway:

Jeremy, every time we talk, uh Walk away learning something. And today has been no exception to that. This book is phenomenal. Cannot recommend it highly enough to our listeners. We're going to have a link in the show notes so you can get your hands on a copy. I really encourage you to do that. And as one who bought the Kindle first, I'm just going to tell you get the paper because you're going to want to make some notes. You're going to want to do some highlighting, underlining. This is going to be one you refer back to. Jeremy, thank you for sharing so generously today about this. For writing the book in the first place. If people want to get in touch with you and learn more about what you're doing and continue to learn straight from you, what's the best way for them to do that?

Jeremy Shapiro:

Yeah, so at your businessgrowthplaybook.com, you'll be able to find out more about the book there, the links to buy a copy of the book, uh, socials, follow-ups, all that. Um, I've also got um really great resources for folks who are interested in uh getting a sample of what the book is, as well as um, you know, I have updates around the content from the book that I send out almost daily um to all the folks that are on our list. These, by the way, are folks just like you, business owners, who want to get back to growth or, you know, see even more growth in the business they've got. So all that and more you can find over at your businessgrowth playbook.com.

Dr. William Attaway:

We'll put that in the show notes as well. Thanks for inviting me on. This is fun as always. Thanks so much for coming back on. Listeners, I think you see why I invited him back. So much value today. So grateful.

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Dr. William Attaway

Host

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