From Overwhelmed Operator to Visionary CEO: How EOS Transformed His Agency with Drew Larison

Most agency owners build a business around their skills—then hit a ceiling when those same skills become their greatest limitation. In this episode, I sit down with Drew Larison, founder of Five Door Media, to unpack the real shift that unlocked scale in his agency: moving from overwhelmed operator to visionary CEO. For leaders navigating growth, structure, and team development, this conversation cuts to the heart of what it truly means to lead at scale.

Drew shares how implementing EOS wasn’t just a process upgrade—it was a complete redefinition of leadership inside his agency. We explore the emotional friction of letting go, the identity shift that comes with the visionary seat, and the difference between running campaigns and building a company that multiplies impact through people. You’ll hear how his Five Door Method clarified client results, why his agency now audits client sales calls to improve performance, and what it looks like to create a framework that empowers scale without sacrificing culture.

This is a must-listen for agency founders who feel the weight of growth and know they need to shift from operator to architect. And near the end, Drew shares a powerful leadership story from his family that reframes everything we think we know about legacy, loyalty, and what truly defines a great leader.

Connect with Drew Larison
Follow Drew at @MrDrewLarison on Instagram or LinkedIn, and learn more at fivedoormedia.com. Be sure to check out The Five Door Media Podcast for deep-dive agency growth strategies.

Books Mentioned

• Crush It by Gary Vaynerchuk
• 10x Is Easier Than 2x by Dan Sullivan & Dr. Benjamin Hardy

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Chapters

• 0:00 Drew Larison's Introduction
• 0:46 Kitchen Table Leadership: Drew’s Entrepreneurial Legacy
• 7:12 Servant Leadership That Lasts Beyond the Business
• 9:41 From Music, Marketing, and Subway to Agency Startup
• 16:09 Launching Five Door Media and Building a Home Services Niche
• 20:41 The Five Door Method: Diagnosing Where Client Campaigns Fail
• 27:23 Implementing EOS: Drew’s Transition into the Visionary Seat
• 34:30 10x Thinking, Identity Shifts, and Building Legacy Through Leadership

Transcript

Dr. William Attaway: 0:17

I'm excited today to have Drew Larison on the podcast. Drew's the founder and CEO of Five Door Media. Drew founded the Larison Company in 2015 and merged the company into Larison Media in early 2017. Drew's a husband, a father and a true believer that hard work and kindness is the true key to success. Drew, I'm so glad you're here. Thanks for being on the show.

Drew Larison: 0:43

I am very happy to be here as well. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Intro / Outro: 0:49

Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed to help leaders intentionally grow and thrive. Here is your host author and leadership and executive coach, dr William Attaway.

Dr. William Attaway: 1:06

Andrew, I'd love to start with you sharing a little bit of your story with our listeners, particularly around your journey and your development as a leader. How did you get started?

Drew Larison: 1:18

My journey as a leader probably started in childhood. To be honest, I grew up in an entrepreneurial home. My father and grandfather owned a business that is in the manufacturing world. I won't go into specifics because it's still kind of over my head exactly what they do and, as you can tell, as I own an agency, I kind of went a complete opposite route. Can tell, as I own an agency, I kind of went a complete opposite route.

Drew Larison: 1:44

But you know, I always tell people like some of the best lessons in leadership I have experienced happened at my kitchen table growing up you know, and my dad worked with my grandfather on a daily basis, and so a lot of dinner conversations started with my mom asking my dad, what did your dad have to say today, you know? And then I would hear the stories of the shop you know, and I would hear the struggles, and they were specifically in a portion of manufacturing that worked in the automotive world a lot. So when 2008 happened, I saw my dad navigate that and we I am based out of Kokomo, indiana. We are about 45 miles, 40 miles like straight north of Indianapolis, and at that time, well, kokomo is still very much a factory town. There's a giant Chrysler factory, or Stellantis now as it's called, as well as some other large scale automotive factories, and Kokomo was on like the top three list of Forbes fastest dying cities in 2008. And my dad was a supplier for those automotive companies. So I definitely saw the stress of that and I will forever tell the tale. My dad survived that without having to lay off a single employee. He definitely led with that.

Drew Larison: 3:01

Leaders eat last mentality during those, you know, years of struggle, through that depression that our country went through, especially in that automotive world, and but it really is like it's. It's one of those things I think is partly maybe not biologically genetic, but just due to the house I grew up in and the conversations I heard and the experiences that I saw that entrepreneurial gene of mine was strong, you know, growing up. And I also didn't finish college, so like my dad didn't either, so like even that kind of like kept going. But I really, I really think my leadership lessons began in my childhood and just hearing conversations from my dad at the dinner table with my mom.

Dr. William Attaway: 3:52

You know, that's so fascinating and it makes me think about my story. I mean, I'm a third generation entrepreneur too. You know I watched my grandfather, you know, start and run a business. My dad started and ran actually a traditional advertising agency starting back in the 70s. He ran it for 45 years.

Drew Larison: 4:08

As a madman. Exactly, that's exactly it.

Dr. William Attaway: 4:10

You know, I mean well long before digital, yeah, but the lessons that you learn at the kitchen table, the lessons that you learn simply by almost osmosis of being in the room, living in the house and watching and listening and table, the lessons that you learned simply by almost osmosis of being in the room, living in the house and watching and listening and learning. You know a lot of what to do, but also sometimes what not to do. You know, as you were, as you were observing and watching, what are some things that you took away and you're like I'm absolutely going to be just like that, I'm doing that.

Drew Larison: 4:41

Yeah, and it's funny you say that like, uh, this got brought up. So my wife works full-time in the business too and I was having a conversation with her earlier and she referenced in our conversation of what was something that was going on situation was going on in our business. She literally said I feel like this is something Gilbert would do and Gilbert was my grandpa and so it's very timely that we're talking about this. But basically it was at my grandpa's funeral and, like I said, so the grandpa, he started the business, shout out, hoosier Spine Broach in Kokua, indiana, and then at some point my dad took it. As much as a son can take over a business from a very confident father. You know, grandpa definitely still came into the shop every day, but dad was running, you know, the day to day. And so at grandpa Gilbert's funeral, somebody came up to us who had worked in the shop for forever and they were you just kind of started telling stories about what it was like to know Gilbert, or, in his name, he called him Gil, and it was a different. I mean, I loved my grandfather. I have like nothing negative to say, but like hearing stories from the personal side from your grandfather when you knew him as a grandfather. It's a whole different thing, right. And one of the stories, specifically, was my grandfather put down the down payment for one of his employees' first homes and let him slowly pay off the home through his paycheck over years. And I had no idea. I had no idea this was a reality. And he said, literally, I wouldn't be where I'm at today if it wasn't for Gil or your grandpa. And I'm like man. Talk about just a few things. One just generational impact that, like Grandpa Gilbert was able to help create, right, I mean it's, at that time the American dream was owning a home, you know. So, like Grandpa helped that guy achieve the American dream, or at least start that American dream of owning a home. And then the second thing was like dear God, that's some familial pressure. Did I live up to that too? But at the same time I mean honestly, like that story gets brought up a lot and, like I said, we were able to do not at that magnitude yet, but maybe one day like help an employee with like a purchase that they needed recently that they just weren't able to do, and like that's, my wife was like, hey, we need to do this because this is something Grandpa Gilbert would do. So like just the pressure of that, but like to live that on. And I also say, too, the biggest lesson in leadership I'll ever have.

Drew Larison: 7:19

So, unfortunately, nearly 10 years ago, which is actually the same year we started the business, my father actually passed away and the biggest lesson I'll ever need in leadership was for his funeral. Right, and it was obviously. He passed away young, so it was kind of like a chaotic planning of this funeral. It wasn't fully really expected in any way. And you're doing all the planning, you're trying're doing all the planning. You're trying to figure out flowers, you're trying to figure out the funeral home, like all right, all like all the details that go into um burying someone, and we get a call from the shop and it is his employees who have been there a long time and they're like, hey, we want to be the pallbearers and like the people that have worked for my dad were the ones that carried his casket at his funeral and I'm like why do I ever need to go to another leadership conference? Why do I ever need? To. You know what I mean.

Drew Larison: 8:10

Like what's going to top that, like personally in my life. So there's just been so many cool stories that I have heard, you know, post their passing, that have impacted me and just this massive way Like that. I said that have been really awesome to hear stories of my family members, that the side of my family members that I didn't get to see because that was like the relationship I had with them as if their son or their grandson. But it was so cool to not just hear stories of leadership like that and like love for your employees and like giving back to your employees, but like to know, like, oh, that's, I've got that in me right. Like those, those stories have my genes in them.

Drew Larison: 8:58

Um, what a cool thing, an opportunity that I have to like keep that going for the Larison name, you know. So there there's, there's a lot of stories and a lot of lessons I've learned, um, but those two are like the first thing that will pop in my head that like really have taught me what type of leadership is not just expected but like attainable. You know, like because they're they weren't just stories I read in a book, they're stories I'm hearing at my family members' funerals from real people that experienced it, and it's just the impact that had and continues to have. Like I said, my wife literally brought it up the other day and a real story in our company.

Dr. William Attaway: 9:37

So it's really cool to see that impact, to see that it's attainable and real and then be able to do that now in the position we're in, is something I'll never take advantage of. That type of legacy is such a gift and it's not one that everybody gets, and I love that. You shared that and are living into that legacy now you and your wife in the company legacy. Now you and your wife in the company. So how did you get?

Drew Larison: 11:09

from growing up in that environment to digital marketing. Great question, yeah. So I guess following that path of like an entrepreneurial kid school was never something I loved. I was never someone that was able to like sit in a classroom and obtain information and learn. That way I was always like let's get my hands dirty, I want to experience something, I want to learn. While doing so, like somehow graduated high school, somehow got into a college it was actually the college that my brother got into so I think I totally got the sympathy acceptance into that college into. So I think I totally got the the sympathy acceptance into that college. And now college is an interesting thing where if you don't like pass your classes, they have this thing where they don't let you come back to school. It's like flunking out.

Drew Larison: 11:56

So the first year in college I did that exact same thing. I was in no way like emotionally mature enough to like have that responsibility. But it's what you do, right, you go to college after high school. And so I came home after that kind of with my tail between my legs like embarrassed and shameful that I was going through that. But then I went to a local school it's actually Indiana University, kokomo. It's like a sister campus of IU, and my first semester at IU I got an internship doing. Uh well, actually let me go back, sorry Before I went to IU. Iu actually makes you sit out a semester. If you flunked out of a school before you just dive in, die you.

Drew Larison: 12:38

So like I had like this loser of a semester where I was just down on myself feeling really crappy. But there was this guy that I had a random connection with through church and his name was Oven and he to me my visual, he was successful, right, and I'm like that's a guy I need to have coffee with or that's the guy I need to like sit down with. So I met up with him and I kind of told him what I was into. So, like I don't know, I think I'm into business. I grew up in a home where business was definitely talked about. I'm creative. At that time I was like pretty active in music. Um, I like people and I think I like technology. Technology is fun. Like that was around the time like iPhones were coming out, so it was like this really big boom of like new technology waves. And he gave me a book, uh, to read and it was called crush it by gary vaynerchuk, and like this book was like new right, like this is when it just came out and gary was in no way the gary b that the world knows now and I read the book and it kind of blew my mind.

Drew Larison: 13:38

Um, and then, in classic gary v fashion, I got like this giant false self confidence going on and like I said like oh my gosh, I am in Kokomo, indiana. I'm about to blow this town away. There's this thing called social media marketing and like you can do what you love, you can crush it and like it's just the cheesiest book title of all time, but it's really. It was powerful for me. So I would like arrogantly went to this car dealership that I worked at in high school and I said, like you guys need help with this thing called digital marketing, and they're like no, we don't. And they didn't give me an internship. And then, like six months later, I got a random call back when I was at iuk, when I were caught up when I was in that semester at iuk, and they called back and they're like, okay, maybe actually we are interested. So I got an internship and like made some videos for them. Like I said, I had no clue what I was doing, like, but I had like all that Gary V, self false confidence right.

Drew Larison: 14:28

It doesn't matter, I'm going to crush it, like that's just, that's what the book title is, that's what I'm going to do. But like, I helped them, you know to this day, like I created their Facebook page for them and like they're up and still running. And like created YouTube accounts for them and Instagram accounts and things like that. But then at the end of that internship, basically I said you guys want to hire me Because I'm great. Look at all the things I've done for you. And then they said no, no, we don't. And then another local car dealership saw what I had done at that dealership and they offered me a job. And that's where I made the moment, the decision of like, do I finish school or do I take a job that I would want after school? You know, like after graduating, I was like it was an internet marketing director, which was way too big of a job title for what I actually was doing, but that's what they called me. So I took the job at the dealership, worked there for a few years and then Avin who remember gave me crush it. He contacted me and said hey, I'm looking for a social media marketing director. If you know anybody, let me know. Back to that Gary V confidence. I said why not me? And like, a few weeks later I was hired.

Drew Larison: 15:34

So I worked there at Web Success Agency, which was the name of that agency. It was like my first agency experience, worked there for three years. It was like my first agency experience, worked there for three years, kind of learned how the sausage was made inside of an agency, so to speak, and great experience. They went one way. I kind of wanted to go the other way. We separated ways. I took a few clients with me with their blessing, because they were not going the way of those clients, yeah.

Drew Larison: 15:58

And then 10 years in June, here we are. So we've been. I've been running the agency for 10 years, uh, as the Larison company, when it was just me working out of my house, and then it went to Larison media when I started to get some staff. Um, also, just a straight copy of VaynerMedia is why we went with Larison media, cause I was still obsessed with Gary Vaynerchuk at the time. And then around three years ago is when we really started getting comfortable and creating a really big impact for people in that home service niche. So that's when we decided to make that subsidiary agency, five Door Media just for home service companies. So there's the 10-year history.

Dr. William Attaway: 16:37

It's remarkable, and you know there's no such thing as a wasted experience. And had any of those things not been a part of the journey, I think it would have radically altered your trajectory. You're 100 right and the destination.

Drew Larison: 16:50

So much so, too, I met my wife because when I was doing that internship I was also working at subway. I was working at mcallister's, like I was like hustling and I was at the movies one time with some friends and a friend of my brothers came in. I was talking to her and then my wife was with her. I had no idea who she was at the movies one time with some friends and a friend of my brother's came in. I was talking to her and then my wife was with her. I had no idea who she was at the time and started talking to her and she got me my first actual job in marketing, which at that time was for a local gym, and I was allowed to do the Facebook page while I was making protein shakes behind the front desk, like.

Drew Larison: 17:26

So that was like my first job in marketing and those were like the crazy days of Facebook, we would do these wild giveaways, like I would post something like the first person to come in and run a mile on the treadmill gets a free membership for a year, and like the place would just be flooded because organic reach was crazy at that time, right. Like you could just post anything and thousands of people would see it. So we just did some buck wild things at that gym, um, but yeah, like aaron, who now we've been married for over 10 years, um, almost 13 years, so he got me my first job in marketing that I never would have met her and like. So I mean, you're right, like every, every experience, like adds up to who you are and where you're at now, um, personal and professional. So, yeah, it's, it's wild Her and I talk about every now and then, like if one thread in the story would not have happened, what would it look like? You know, and it's wild to think about.

Dr. William Attaway: 18:19

That's so true. So tell me about five-door media. What are you guys about?

Drew Larison: 18:24

Yeah. So Five Door Media, it's really fun. We really look at our jobs as marketers, not just as we run ad campaigns or we create social media posts or we really create great videos. We kind of take it a step further and we really want to be what we call just impact makers. We really exist to partner with home service businesses so that together we can increase their impact internally, locally and beyond, because we truly think that home service companies are changing the world and we want to play a role in their stories by helping with those creative tasks that a lot of times are things that get pushed to the side, things that are not the strong suit of the owners. But it's been a really cool thing to partner with those companies. In the other home services world we work with a lot of, like, lawn and landscape companies. We work a lot with the cleaning world, so, like the residential and commercial cleaning world, hvac, plumbing, all those and if you service a home, we're a great agency for you.

Drew Larison: 19:30

And five-door media comes from something we've created called the five-door method, which is really our way of diagnosing marketing campaigns and ad campaigns. We truly believe that customers have to go through five doors before they're a paying customer. And the first one is platform. The second one is creative. The third one is targeting. The fourth one is post ad engagement, so your websites, your landing pages, your forms. And then that fifth door is sales. So when we're working with a client, we're working with an ad campaign for them. We like look at the metrics and we're able to see what door customers are getting stuck at and then we tweak that door until they make their way through and onto the last one. So it's been a really cool journey so far with 5 Door Media. When we launched 5 Door Media, a good chunk of our Larison Media clients were home service, so they probably just like transitioned over. But it's been cool. You know, this five door method is, I think, providing a way for business owners that are not super fluent in marketing to kind of understand how it works. And I'm not saying like the five door method is this revolutionary idea of how to diagnose an ad campaign, but like just the way that we're wording it. I think it's been refreshing for a lot of people. It's easier to understand and attain in their brain, for, oh yeah, they're getting stuck at the creative and showing them the metrics. Your ads are being shown to a bunch of people but there's zero engagement. That means your creative for that ad is not stopping the scroll. People are just going to keep going past.

Drew Larison: 21:05

We're getting to, we're getting more and more involved in the sales process of our clients, which is really fascinating, and because to us you know the metrics we're looking at things should be gangbusters, right, but then we're. Now we're starting to like dive into the sales calls of some of our clients and we're realizing like I kind of take it prideful, but we've had a lot of CSRs fired through our clients because we are able to show them call recordings and they're like, oh my gosh, that lead was ready to hand over money and they just didn't close it. So that's always an interesting line to walk. I think a lot of agency owners listen to this. So the last thing I want to say as an agency owner is like oh, it's your sales problem, it's not the marketing.

Drew Larison: 21:51

So what we're able to do is say that when we believe that to be the problem, but say it with proof, show them metrics, show them like no man, they have got to door four, they've gotten to door five and they're falling off. Let's listen to this call or let's read this email that was sent and that's stuff we get access to up top, because I really believe we could do the best marketing job in the world. But if that fifth door isn't this big, beautiful door that's welcoming to people and that sales process is really on point, we are worthless as the agency because dollars are not going to be made from these leads and they won't be very open to keep paying us if they're not, so if they don't have the money from the leads to pay us. So that fifth door is really important and actually on our podcast we're doing it by season and the first season is all about sales.

Drew Larison: 22:47

So it's been really interesting to talk to home service professionals about sales and learn more from them, which that has helped us really diagnose those fifth door issues that some of our clients are having and then give them insights that we've learned from those home service professionals that are just crushing it in the sales world. And then that's when those doors start opening up and really working with them to get exact ROI numbers. So they know hey, you spent this much on ads. A lot of home service world is recurring revenue, so it's great for paid ads. So it's been fun. It's been fun to dive into home service before 5Door, but now that we're all in on home service, it's just increased the impact tenfold. It's been really great.

Dr. William Attaway: 23:31

You know, as you describe what you do, it sounds very much like you are positioning yourself, presenting yourself as a growth partner, that you're helping them think, not just through the tactics of run this ad, run this creative, but thinking strategically across their business. I would imagine your clients tend to stick around.

Drew Larison: 23:52

Yeah, yeah, and I think I think you're spot on too and, like I said from the jump, like we don't look at ourselves as just digital marketers, we're impact makers, you know, and impact can be defined in different ways Financial is one of them, but, like we say, we love the idea of internally, locally and beyond, like creating impact.

Drew Larison: 24:12

The internal impact is maybe through helping you get sales or helping you grow your audience. Someone on staff got a raise and they're able to buy a car for the first time, or maybe they have a Gilbert Larson in their lives and they're able to buy a house for the first time, you know, like those internal stories that maybe we'll never hear about, um, and but we know they're happening if we're doing what we're supposed to be doing, all those like internal impact stories that could be happening. And then locally, I truly believe that the best way for a local community to grow is through strong small businesses really supporting it, and I know we don't like to talk about taxes, but the better a business does, the more you're going to pay in taxes and those tax dollars.

Drew Larison: 24:54

You're going to have better roads, you're going to have better schools, you're going to have better local government making better decisions, investing back in the community, and we really think what we do, the impact we're helping our clients make, goes into that. You know so, like we're not just making Facebook graphics, we're literally maybe filling potholes in a way through the work we're doing right. Or like a school is getting a new gymnasium because of the work we're helping with. So that local impact is a big deal for us too. And then that beyond impact is just due to the internet. Any business we work with is no longer confined to just their walls. You know really, the stories and the impact that they can be creating due to the internet and its reach could be beyond what we could possibly dream. You know so we're not marketers. We are impact makers that really are focused on creating impact internally for your business, locally for your community and beyond, for the world.

Dr. William Attaway: 25:45

A podcast is just another way that you're adding value even beyond your own clients. Now you're adding value to people around the world.

Drew Larison: 25:54

I'll tell you what, too, the biggest value from the podcast is, selfishly, for me, like I said, we are able to interview the industry's best, the home industry's best and the things I have learned, and then, in return, what my team has learned by listening to these podcast episodes, does nothing but just make us so much better internally. The sales tips we're learning in that sales season, season two, is going to be all about AI. Like, how are the top AI home service business owners using these new futuristic tools to help, you know, grow the impact in their home service businesses? So we're like, I'll be learning from that, you know, and so will the listeners. But, like, selfishly, we learn a lot as the agency by talk, being able to have the opportunity to talk to these business owners and then use what they're doing and their big businesses in the home service world to help our clients out. So, like man, selfishly, I get out a lot of it. I love doing the podcast. It's so fun for me.

Dr. William Attaway: 26:55

So let me take a little turn there from that, because five-door media needs you to lead at a higher level today than it did five years ago, and that same thing is going to be true five years from now. You've had phenomenal examples with your grandfather and your dad, but you've got to be on a continual growth curve. You can't just ever settle for where you are, because your clients, your team, your business is going to need you to lead at a higher level. How do you stay on top of your game? How do you level up with those new leadership skills that your team and your business will need you to have?

Drew Larison: 27:34

You know you are so spot on and it's something we're going through right now. So we just launched EOS inside of our agency Awesome, and it's been a really cool experience. We're about a month in like five weeks in. We've had five L10s. Those L10s keep getting better and better. We're about to start departmental L10s as well. But that's been a really cool process for us for so many ways and if anybody's listening and they've launched EOS, you know what I'm talking about. It's been fascinating. We're full on for the EOS One software and you know like we're bought in, but obviously maybe not obviously I'm sitting in that like visionary CEO seat and I mean, I'll be honest, it has been a struggle to find and I'm still not there. I had a conversation earlier today. I am struggling to get comfortable knowing that my job now is so much of my job is thinking and planning and there's not a lot at the end of the day that I can check off the box. I'm also an Enneagram three, which is like the achiever.

Drew Larison: 28:48

Right. So I find so much value in myself when I'm achieving things and a lot of times that visionary seat, what you're achieving is not as tactile as maybe as what it was before. Like there's been and my wife actually, she is the integrator for our company, so so that's been awesome. She is, she is the integrator for our company, so like, so that's been awesome. She is thriving, she is killing it and like that is just something we're blessed with. That we've learned is like her yang is my yang and vice versa. But at the same time, like I've gone to her a few times and I'm just like Erin, you're what do I do? Right? And because EOS, like the whole point of it, is like accountability and details and clarity. Everybody has like to do lists right. Everybody has accountability charts and they know what they're supposed to be doing. And if they were going to talk about it in a week and if you didn't do it, there's questions like everybody's very clear.

Drew Larison: 29:42

And a lot of times, me in that visionary seat, I'm like well, well, what do I do this week, you know, and it's it's been weird and it's been hard. I'll be honest, like the five weeks there's been like definitely moments of like am I good at this? Is this actually where I'm supposed to be? Um, you know, they talk a lot about having the right seat or being the right people on the bus, but having the right people in the right seats about it's like I've had a lot of self-doubt. I've had a lot of um, what's it called? Where, like, you're pretending imposter 100, um, and I think I'm finally getting to a rhythm and this is I. I need therapy is really probably what it is. But, like, getting to the point, understanding what I accomplish is not who I am, that's right, and that's been a really hard thing to like, grasp and um, so I guess, to answer your question, that was to start it, but I'm still learning that you know, and I I love having conversations like this.

Drew Larison: 30:39

I love going to masterminds, I'm digging into more, really, just education, uh, constant, constant education and constant, like, trying to level up. I'm in a lot of groups where I'm having conversations with people, um, but the biggest thing to me is acknowledging that education is what I'm supposed to be doing. Like, there's not a lot of like to-do list, check it off items anymore. It is high level. It is a lot of big picture thinking, which to me comes natural. I love it, so that doesn't help. Actually, you would think like someone that is a natural big picture thinker. This would be perfect.

Drew Larison: 31:18

But when you mix in, I'm an Enneagram three who bases 100% of my value on achievement. A lot of days I'm not going to achieve much, at least on like paper, right, right, um, I'm gonna like be working on things that might be big in the future, but a lot of times I'm just sitting around like is this what I'm supposed to be doing? You know and like even when we launched eos, I had like to-do list items. I had scorecards and then I like dug into more eos stuff and they're like you're not supposed to have that stuff. I I'm like then what am I supposed to do if I don't have any like to-do list items? You know and that's luckily my wife is so amazing and like encouraging and like she's helping me through it, but like that's honestly something I've really struggled with, like finding my identity in this new structure, and it's tough too, because everybody else is loving it so much like, everybody is like really leaned in to the eos model and they're loving the accountability, the clarity of roles and things like that.

Drew Larison: 32:14

I mean, we're 10 years old. We barely had an like an organizational chart, you know. Now we have like a full accountability chart and like everybody's loving it and I'm just sitting back like that's cool, I'm glad you guys are great. So I'm gonna go read a book I guess you know what I mean. Like that's, that's a part of it, you know, and it's it's. It's been interesting. So maybe if we talk in six months I'll have a different answer, but like that's. That's been something I'm struggled with, you know, and I think I'm a little bit ADD, so that doesn't help. In the cluster of whatever the situation is either, I will say we have a plan. So my wife and I share an executive assistant and I think we're going to really talk to her. Shout out, shine. She's amazing To where she can help me keep accountable on things I should be doing or needles that should be moving. But it's been hard. It's been hard, but I think we're on the right path.

Dr. William Attaway: 33:12

Well, I think you are too. You know the turn that you're making right now is one that most leaders do not make, and the reason for that is that they draw so much of their self-worth and their identity, like you were saying, from what they get done, and that's understandable. And if you want to build a lifestyle business where everything centers around you, great, go for it. But if you want to build something that scales, and if you want to build something that one day becomes a sellable asset, you have to remove yourself from the center of the spider web, and that takes exactly what you're describing. You have to make the turn from being an individual contributor to being a CEO. You have to move from getting things done to getting things done through other people which means your list isn't checking anymore.

Dr. William Attaway: 34:06

You're not checking boxes. It's a whole different ballgame now.

Drew Larison: 34:09

It's tough. It's tough and, like I said, with that other cluster of my Enneagram 3-ness, it's been a challenge. Yeah, it's been a cluster.

Dr. William Attaway: 34:18

That adds a layer of complexity.

Drew Larison: 34:19

It does.

Dr. William Attaway: 34:19

It does so as you continue to learn and as you grow. Is there a book that has made a big difference in your journey that you'd recommend to the leaders who are listening?

Drew Larison: 34:29

Well, of course, crush it right. That's the one that started it all the one that started everything.

Drew Larison: 34:34

That's right. No, I think the most recent book that was and I don't think I'm speaking in hyperbole, but the change in my life was that is, 10 X is easier than two X. That book was so good, so freaking good. I remember my daughter is on a swim team and I was listening to the audio book while at a swim meet, which, if there's any swim parents out there, you know what I'm talking about. It is a four hour event that your, your kid, participates maybe in 45 seconds of, uh, so it's, it's a lot of sit around and wait, um, but I was listening to that book and I remember just like being I was in this giant natatorium of like 600 people, but like I was so focused which is rare for me, um, because that book changed my life, you know, and like it really talked to me about you can't do everything, and the people that have become the greatest are the ones that get super hyper-focused and are able to answer that question who, not how and they're the ones that are able to delegate and really focus on just what they are the best at. I have a friend, her name's Angela Chinowski and she owns a virtual assistant agency, but it's called Unique Genius and like they're really big believers on that too helping entrepreneurs find their unique genius and then finding out, finding other people to take care of the rest. So, like her and I, we talk a lot about that. But that book 10X is easier than 2X the line that will stick with anybody who reads it what got you to where you are now is not what's going to get you to where you're going, and that rocked my world when I read that and that's probably when we started going down that five-door path and started talking about EOS and all that kind of stuff.

Drew Larison: 36:23

It's just that leveling up moment and it's a scary moment I often describe growing. Running a business that's growing is you have a backpack and you're walking on a sidewalk and simultaneously the sidewalk gets more narrow and your backpack gets more heavy, and then all of a sudden you get to a point and it starts widening again and the backpack gets lighter. But then it's just constant of that Like it is a constant path of walking down that sidewalk with, when it gets narrow, the weight of it carries gets heavier, and then you get to this comfortable point where you're, like you're at a part of growth where, like you have good people, you have the right people, and all of a sudden it gets really hard again and that no sidewall gets narrow again and that backpack backpack gets heavier, um, like that is. But that breaking point is that point where the book talks about what got you to where you are at. This breaking point is not what's going to get you where you're going next, which is that more comfortable sidewalk again, and it's a scary moment. But it's such an encouraging thing to hear and understand that every business that's ever grown goes through this.

Drew Larison: 37:27

This is not a Larissa Media thing, this is not a five-door media thing. This is just a business thing. Right, and to hear that was really encouraging.

Dr. William Attaway: 37:35

Drew, this has been such a phenomenal conversation. I feel like I could talk to you for another hour and continue to gain these golden nuggets of insight that you've picked up along the way. Thank you for being so generous today and sharing from your journey so far. I know our listeners are going to want to stay connected to you and continue to learn more from you and about what you and Five Door and Larison Media are doing. What's the best way for them to do that?

Drew Larison: 38:02

Absolutely. Yeah. You can connect to me on Facebook at Drew Larison, with one R, often commonly misspelled. A lot of people just put two R's in there or just anywhere. Really, it's at Mr Drew Larison is my handle in a lot of places, so follow me on Instagram or connect with me on LinkedIn. I'm pretty easy to find FiveDoorMediacom LarisonMediacom.

Dr. William Attaway: 38:30

Should be pretty easy to find me.

Drew Larison: 38:31

Not a lot of Drew Larison's out there. It's a pretty unique name. Yeah, we will have all those links in the show notes and what is the name of the podcast.

Dr. William Attaway: 38:35

It's just the Five Door Media Podcast.

Drew Larison: 38:35

So we are. Like I said, the unique thing about what we're doing so far is we're doing it by season and every season is the same topic. So we have like 10 episodes on sales coming and then the next 10 will be all on AI. So we're doing it in that way.

Dr. William Attaway: 38:49

Well, I want to encourage our listeners to go check that out, because I know there's a lot of value there. Oh yeah, Drew, thank you so much for today. Thank you.