How To Streamline Hiring With AI-Powered Tools With Scott Morris

Hiring the right people is one of the biggest challenges business leaders face. Too often, job descriptions are vague, hiring is inefficient, and top talent slips through the cracks. But what if AI could transform the way we approach talent acquisition?

In this episode, I sit down with Scott Morris, founder of Propulsion AI, to discuss how AI-powered hiring is revolutionizing job descriptions and recruitment. Scott shares his fascinating journey from law enforcement to HR leadership, revealing how his diverse experiences shaped his approach to people management. We dive deep into how AI-driven job descriptions create clarity, improve hiring speed, and attract the right candidates—all while reducing the burden on HR teams.

Scott also opens up about the highs and lows of being a founder, the key lessons he's learned, and why leaders must continually adapt to succeed. Plus, we discuss how great leadership is like conducting a symphony—bringing out the best in each team member to create something greater than the sum of its parts.

If you’re struggling to hire the right people, scale effectively, or optimize your hiring process, this episode is packed with insights you won’t want to miss!

Listen now and learn how AI-powered hiring can revolutionize your business!

Connect with Scott Morris:
 
Scott Morris is revolutionizing hiring and talent management with Propuls

Right now, you can get an extra 20% off your ticket for the Scale with Stability Summit with my exclusive code CATALYTIC20 at checkout.

Visit scalewithstability.com to grab your ticket—I hope to see you there!

Right now, you can get an extra 20% off your ticket for the Scale with Stability Summit with my exclusive code CATALYTIC20 at checkout.

Visit scalewithstability.com to grab your ticket—I hope to see you there!

Right now, you can get an extra 20% off your ticket for the Scale with Stability Summit with my exclusive code CATALYTIC20 at checkout.

Visit scalewithstability.com to grab your ticket—I hope to see you there!

Chapters

• 0:00 The Leadership Journey Begins
• 2:56 The Power of Perspective in Leadership
• 7:56 Reinventing Hiring with AI-Powered Job Descriptions
• 14:54 Aligning Roles with Strategy & Performance
• 22:05 Founder Challenges: Highs, Lows & Lessons Learned
• 26:58 Leadership Growth & the Future of Work

Transcript

Dr. William Attaway: 0:37

I'm so excited today to have Scott Morris here on the podcast. Scott's the founder and CEO of Propulsion AI. He has been a successful people operations executive for nearly 20 years now, trading the cushy corporate gig for a tech bro vest and the challenges of being an entrepreneur. His track record spans five industries across North and Central America where he has consistently delivered bottom line results through people focused initiatives. Artificial intelligence to help organizations achieve clarity about roles, accelerate hiring, simplify screening and onboarding, and improves almost every aspect of talent management. It transforms what has typically been four to six hours of effort into as little as 15 minutes. The platform is being used by employees from Albertsons, wisk, aerospace, municipalities like the city of Denver, healthcare and manufacturing companies and a host of others. Scott, I am so glad you're here. Thanks for being on the show.

Scott Morris: 1:51

I appreciate the invite so much, William. Thank you A pleasure.

Intro/Outro: 1:56

Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed to help leaders intentionally grow and thrive. Here is your host author and leadership and executive coach, dr William Attaway.

Dr. William Attaway: 2:13

I would love to start with you sharing a little bit of your story with our listeners, Scott, particularly around your journey and your development as a leader. How did you get started?

Scott Morris: 2:24

Gosh.

Scott Morris: 2:25

So if you go back, like the stuff you can't see in my LinkedIn profile, one of my. I grew up in the Los Angeles area and one of my first jobs was I was a police officer for the city of Los Angeles and I think it's odd that I wound up in the profession of HR, given that sort of starting. But there's a lesson that I took out of it and I think it's weird, but only because my practice of people operations and of HR as a profession has never really been on the compliance side. I've always been one that is really thinking more about workforce effectiveness and how to drive productivity and this concept of fit that I want to come back to later. One thing I learned as a cop was that you could have four people that are standing on four different corners of an intersection and they watch the same accident and they have four very different perspectives about what they've seen, and so this idea that there's sort of one truth, I think is a little bit elusive, because perspective colors everything, and as I, as I started to enter into people ops, I I recognized that dynamic and how important it was. You know, I think I'm I'm blessed as a leader in the sense that I've worked in a lot of contexts and you learn a lot of different things. You know, if you do kind of one thing or one industry for a long time, you become an expert in that and I have great respect for people who do that. But I think the value of the variety is that it forces you to alter and adapt the way that you lead based on the context. And if you get a bunch of varied contexts, obviously you've got a bigger repertoire.

Scott Morris: 4:03

So you know, over the course of my career you know I mean I started, as I told you, as a police officer I went into really, my next sort of foray was in learning and development and that colored my leadership, because in learning and development it's all about building an understanding and a technique called scaffolding. That you, you know, you lay the foundation for a small piece and then you build upon that piece. And you build upon that piece and I think that's an important lesson for leaders is that people don't always get to what you want them to get to immediately and you have to build that case for them. Evolution as a leader has been learning, you know, taking that lesson from being a police officer, that you know people's perspective really matters and, taking the lesson from being in learning and development, that you have to build the case along the way and draw people toward what you, what you're trying to to push them into, to leadership, for you know, the exercise of leadership is trying to to to deliver to them.

Scott Morris: 5:01

You know, throughout my career in a C-level role in people ops, I think I've always been more involved in the business than a lot of traditional HR people are, and that's because I've always had an interest in the business.

Scott Morris: 5:15

But I think the thing that that has taught me as a leader is that you know, effort is really really important, but the result of the effort is what really matters and that colors everything, I think, for me as a leader, because we can, you know, obviously we want to pat people on the back, we want to make them feel good about what they're doing, but I think we also have a responsibility as leaders to hold people to the actual result.

Scott Morris: 5:43

You know, did you move that number and the? You know I think the value of being more numbers focused which is the lesson that I learned out of being a sort of functionally involved HR person the value of focusing on those numbers is that it makes your performance management very objective and that makes it inherently more fair. And so I think I've pulled together all of these different lessons that I've taken and then you add in the lessons that I've learned from working in organizations like 15,000 employees, and the ones that I've learned in working in organizations are like 200 employees, where nobody cares what your title is, you just roll up your sleeves and you do what you've got to do. You put all those things together and it's sort of a hodgepodge of a career. But I think my leadership style and the way I approach leadership as a concept is significantly colored by all of those different lessons that I've taken.

Dr. William Attaway: 6:36

Such a fascinating journey and you're not done yet.

Scott Morris: 6:40

No, I'm not done yet. I like to think I'm only getting going.

Dr. William Attaway: 6:44

Right, but you know, I believe there's no such thing as a wasted experience, scott, and you know you talk about you know your time as a police officer. You talk about your time as a C-suite leader. You know all of this has influenced you and impacted you to make you into the leader that you are now, and how you see other people is colored by every one of those experiences. You know the way you describe what you do people operations you know I think that's, I think that's telling because it's focused on people. You know people are not all the same and learning how to see people as individuals who are wired differently, who have different skills and passions and talents and personalities, learning how to see them for who they are and helping them to find a position where they can thrive in an organization.

Intro/Outro: 7:53

That people-centric approach is what I hear from you in our conversations.

Scott Morris: 7:56

Is that accurate? Think about what a symphony conductor does Like. The obvious thing is they stand up in the front at the performance and they keep time and they bring things in. But behind the scenes, a symphony conductor is very concerned with how to bring out the very best of each musician and allow the unique sound that that musician brings to come forward in the performance. And I think that's the work of leadership is, you know, identifying those things and then weaving them together and bringing out the strengths and sometimes saying, hey, you know what, you're not playing the instrument so good. Maybe this isn't the spot for you, but over here might be a spot for you, right, and as long as it's in service of something positive, saying, hey, it's not working, there's not, I don't think I don't see that necessarily negatively, but but yes, yes, your characterization resonates with me, I think.

Dr. William Attaway: 8:46

And I love that analogy of the conductor I heard Ben Zander say 25 years ago now, talking about leadership, in the context of a conductor. He said you know, the conductor is the person whose face is always on the front of the album, but they are the only person on the stage who never makes a sound. Their job is to draw out the music from the musicians, to weave it together in such a way that it makes the beautiful piece that you hear when you hit play so true it's leadership that's, that's what we get to do.

Dr. William Attaway: 9:19

I've never, never, forgotten that analogy and I love that you use that Like that's our job it's to be the conductor, so so good. So now you are in a new chapter with Propulsion AI. Tell us about this and how this can help business owners and leaders to do what we do better to do what we do better.

Scott Morris: 9:43

Well, so I'll tell you like what I think is a funny story. I hope it's an interesting story. I was, uh, we have close neighbors. We were out at pizza, their software developers and engineers, right. And so, as I was making this transition cause I'm a non-technical guy, which I actually think really strengthens what we do at propulsion AI, because it's it's really built on the root cause problems that I experienced as a people office leader in HR it's not really built by software. We got smart software people to be involved, but the architects were the group of HR leaders that I put together. So this group of neighbors and I are out eating pizza at one of our local places and we were talking shop and I was happy that I could just keep up talking shop with them and the woman next to us gets up and kind of in a huff says, well, I'm just tired of the tech bro stuff and it. For anybody else I guess that would be insulting, but for me I was like, oh my God, I made it. You know, I bought, I'm in the in crowd, I fit in, right, I mean it was. It was just sort of nice to get out of our heads the stuff that we want in a role.

Scott Morris: 10:49

Think about it If you get the ability to put a new role on your team whether that is somebody coming in from another division or department or you're going to hire from the outside you race over to HR and you say, okay, I've got this new role and we've got to get something out on the web really quickly for it. And HR says, well, what does it do? And you start to rattle off the stuff that most of us touch really, really easily, all of the different tasks. It's got to do this and I've got this fire and like, this is a pain for me and I want the job to do that. And when you think about it, this is why we have job descriptions that read like obituaries, because they're just summations of tasks and those tasks are not engaging to the people that we put into the role. But they're the easy things for us to touch. The harder things for us to touch are what are the outcomes? What is needed in this organization, whether it's a department or a team or a division or the entire company. What is needed that I am filling a role with?

Scott Morris: 11:48

Because, when you think about philosophically, salary is an investment and, as the investor, you have the right to expect a return on what you're investing. And you're going to invest in salary. You're also going to invest in training. You're going to invest in the time and coaching that you give. If you're leading, in my opinion, correctly, you're going to spend a lot of time coaching, mentoring and developing that person right. It's an investment. What's the return that you get? It is not effort, it's not that they come to work and they do a job. It's that they move the numbers in some way.

Scott Morris: 12:23

But those are the things that typically it's really hard for us as leaders to get out of our heads. That's where Propulsion AI comes in. So what we did is we built a platform that uses a digital human. We call her Athena, and Athena's biggest value is that she interviews the user, who we think is the manager who has the role. She interviews them about that role, she asks questions and in the process of doing that, she is provoking their thinking.

Scott Morris: 12:45

Now, if you stop there, you still have an enormous value because, as a recruiter, if I bring in a top 10% person and I put that person in front of a manager who is truly thought through, how does this role fit strategy? What kind of outcomes am I going to expect? How am I going to measure success in this? What kind of competencies and skills do I need? Which of those competencies and skills do I need in the beginning and which can I develop along the way?

Scott Morris: 13:10

That thought, that goes into that. That is a talent magnet, and top talent gravitates toward those people internal, by the way, and external. But the opposite is true as well. If you haven't thought through that role, you're going to do just the opposite. Right, top talent smells that out and they move in a different direction. They don't want to be involved.

Scott Morris: 13:29

So, all of the things that are really hard for us to do, athena draws out of the user. But then she goes a step further and she handles all of the heavy writing. She's going to write a performance-based job description, an SEO, optimized job posting, social media content, interviewer guides. She'll do compensation analysis on base salary to make sure you're equitable. Effectively. She's going to do what an HR business partner or a recruiter does, and that's great for HR, business partners and recruiters, because if managers can work that out, that creates bandwidth. They can work it out with Athena. It creates bandwidth for the HR business partner or the recruiter to up their game, to move out of administrative and into consultative and strategic activities, and that benefits the business. That's where, now, humans are adding their highest value and technology is adding its highest value, and I think that's really what makes Propulsion AI different.

Scott Morris: 14:20

We didn't start with a software premise. We started with a how do we enable managers to get this stuff out of their head in a really easy way? Because recruiters are telling us that it takes four to six hours to do it right. Our platform, as you said in your intro, does it in as little as 15 minutes. So how do managers get this out of their head, how do we document it in a way that HR, business partners or recruiters like, and how do we make it really fast? That's what we're, that's, you know the problem that we were trying to solve and how we solve.

Dr. William Attaway: 14:48

So how has this been received? Like, what are some, what are some things that you're seeing with customers of yours who are adopting this. How are they leveraging this for the benefit of their teams?

Scott Morris: 14:59

So a couple of different ways. I mean, we've just launched commercially available product in November of 2024. So relatively recently. We've had really really good traction so far. But here's a use case. The person that's usually going to buy the solution is the head of HR in the organization. But what we're starting to see is the VP of engineering or the VP of marketing or the CFO is the one that's in pain because they've got a bottleneck. They go to HR and they say you know I need to hire this role. And HR says you know, what do you want to do? And you say hire somebody like Bob. And HR says that's not a job description. Fill out this template, right. And they can't give you any help because they're trying no-transcript. We watch as they download them and I know where they go. They go directly to their HR business partner and they say here, here's all of the stuff that you need.

Dr. William Attaway: 16:27

And the next sound you hear is of the HR business partner's jaw hitting the table because it's built the way they want it to be built. This sounds like something that is incredibly valuable. I'm thinking of so many clients that I have worked with, who you're exactly right. They struggle with clarity around. Well, what is this supposed to look like? How do we measure this? What are the KPIs? You know they're wrestling, trying to wrestle this to the ground, and HR is trying not to poison the well by saying, well, we think it should look like this to the manager or the hiring leader.

Scott Morris: 16:57

You know, I'll tell you my last corporate assignment, William, my team was well as an organization. We were merging together for previously disparate SaaS companies into one, and in that process, my team had to rewrite 400 job descriptions. That process took 13 weeks 13, the full quarter. With Propulsion AI, it would have you know, the writing would have been done in an afternoon, and the reason is that we would have been able to say hey, each manager, you're going to take care of your own team, and it's nearly impossible to make a mistake with this tool. And so managers would have gone out and done what they needed to do. Everything would have shown up in the library. My team would have now moved a layer up and they would have been thinking about job families and how roles fit together and how are they the right KPIs and are we asking the right measurable results and those kinds of things and sort of challenging the system as a whole, rather than doing what we did, which was the writing.

Dr. William Attaway: 19:02

I think this is going to revolutionize how people think about hiring. I hope so, yeah, I mean, how do you measure? Like, as you're thinking about this, you talked about SIT a minute ago. You know where does that come into this? Where does people's unique wiring, or the unique wiring demanded by a role, where does that play?

Scott Morris: 19:22

Well as a company. Propulsion AI has a vision that goes far beyond the piece that we're working on right now. We really are concerned with the entire talent management life cycle.

Scott Morris: 19:30

This piece was relatively and I've learned as a founder fast and easy and cheap are relative terms, right, but we thought this was a piece that we could bring to market relatively fast and, as it turns out, we did, along with a ton of mistakes that I made as a founder, which we can talk about if you want to talk about the. You know the. The first step in anything is allowing a candidate to really understand what the role is. Think about the number of times we did personal anecdotes, the number of times that you've heard from people you know I. I took the, the assignment with that company and then all of a sudden, the job wasn't what I applied for.

Dr. William Attaway: 20:08

Yes.

Scott Morris: 20:09

Yes, like the worst thing ever, right, and the reason that that happens is that the organization hasn't spent the time to think it through. And it doesn't have to be have to be hours of effort, especially with a tool like the one that we built. But to answer your question, that's where it really starts is being transparent. Here are the outcomes that we want you to produce, not the tasks that we want you to do. Here are the outcomes and here's how we're going to measure your success.

Scott Morris: 20:35

And because we build in measurable results, we also get to say in the posting well, our clients get to say at the end of the first year here's what we're going to be celebrating, that you did, but these are hard things and that allows a candidate to self-select and to you know, the candidates that you want to talk to are the ones that are going to look at that and say I've done that, like I can do that, like I know I can do that, I know I can move those numbers.

Scott Morris: 21:02

And the ones you don't want to talk to are the ones who aren't really ready to sign up for that difficult work and they're going to say oh man, but I need more resources and blah, blah blah, and so that first step of transparency is massively important in helping people make their own choices about what they want to do. Now, as we push forward as a company, we have really novel ideas about a different way to approach selection and a different way to approach onboarding to the results and a different way to approach onboarding to the results and a different way to approach performance management. But we're laser focused right now on just helping companies do a better job of thinking through the roles and getting them into words that attract the right talent, internal and external. I love that.

Dr. William Attaway: 21:44

You know, as a founder, you are experiencing so many different elements of the founder's journey. Thinking about your journey so far, what is one of the highest peaks that you've experienced? Oh gosh.

Scott Morris: 21:59

I think the first time I watched somebody use the platform and I mean I felt like a kid, you know.

Scott Morris: 22:10

Like I mean like they were like something that I sat in my living room and and said we ought to do it like this. And then here's somebody that I'm watching on the screen as they're using the software and they got a great result. And I think the first time like I gave you the example of like the VP of marketing or engineering or like the person that's in the pain using it and then taking it to their HR team the first time that happened, that was a tremendous high, because I know that pain, right, and knowing what, like getting out of it, and I think the first one that they did, the first time I watched it it was like 20 minutes and they were start to finish. They got everything the job description, the posting, the social content, everything 20 minutes. And just knowing how I had struggled and how I did you know, 20 years into my career, how I was struggling to do this and watching it happen in 20 minutes was like so gratifying. That's amazing.

Dr. William Attaway: 23:01

It's not all mountain peaks, though, right. No, part of the founder's journey is the valleys, yeah. And those ditches that we drive into, or almost drive into what's one of those.

Scott Morris: 23:17

Yeah Well, you know, I mean, I think the first thing like if people who haven't been founders don't understand like it's and I didn't either what a roller coaster ride it is Like some days you're like, oh my God, like what am I doing? This is the stupidest thing ever. And then other days are like the ones that I just described. I think one of the biggest mistakes that I made was not really conceptualizing fail fast, learn from it and pivot Right. You know, I remember in the beginning and I people tell me I'm typical in this regard, but I just feel stupid in this regard that you know, one of the first things I remember thinking was I've got to have the perfect website and I labored over every word and every like how everything looked, and the only reason I feel stupid about that is in retrospect. Now I've rebuilt that website like 25 times, and so it didn't.

Scott Morris: 24:01

What I did in the beginning didn't matter. What mattered more was getting something out there and getting a reaction to it, because no matter how good or bad or whatever I think it is, the market is going to tell you what it is, and so the faster you get out there like you know this lesson right, but I didn't, and I think it was one of the biggest things, biggest mistakes that I made was not learning that lesson faster, because it's come up again and again, and again and again. That's really good.

Dr. William Attaway: 24:28

You know you have to be in a continual growth posture. As a founder, You've got to always be learning and that can never stop. You know, as you think about your journey so far, you know your business, your team, your customers. They need you to lead at a different level today than they did at the beginning, and three years, five years from now, they're going to need even more from you. They're going to need you to lead at a higher level. What are you doing to level up your game so that you can be the leader that they're going to need you to be.

Scott Morris: 25:01

Yeah, I think the first thing is, I mean, just being a founder in general for me has just been a lesson in humility, Because I went from this period where I thought I knew a lot about a lot of things and I've arrived at the spot where I realized I know almost nothing about everything, and it's such a humbling experience. But if you're open to that, I think it sets the stage for not only better leadership but leadership at a higher level. I think really great leaders are humble about themselves and they have big egos about their teams.

Scott Morris: 25:36

And so I think recognizing early how little I knew was, I mean I think that helps me and I want to say is helping me? Because it's certainly not something I think I've mastered, is helping me because I know I'm. It's certainly not something I think I've mastered, but I think it is helping me to lead at a higher level. And then asking just a ton of questions and I thought I asked a lot of questions before but like you got, you got to question everything.

Scott Morris: 26:03

I think that's the real, like that's the real, if I can make a leadership sort of connection, like in performance management, one of the things I've always counseled people about is stop making statements, start just everything you can do until you just run out of questions, right? So if somebody's not showing up in the workplace the way that you want them to work, your first question has got to be like why not? Like what's going on with you? Tell me a little bit. What I can't see Making the assumption, the humble assumption, that you don't understand what's going on, even if you have a hypothesis about what's going on. Make the assumption you don't and then start asking questions about it. That, I think, is a lesson that I apply to leading people, but it's also a lesson that I feel like I'm living as a founder with the business, and the concept isn't really any different.

Dr. William Attaway: 26:55

That's so good. I think that mindset I call this a teachable spirit and when you walk into meetings, you walk into rooms, conversations, choosing to have that teachable spirit, choosing to have that, that humility and the belief that you can learn from anybody. Sometimes it's what not to do, but that can be incredibly valuable, right? I mean that that mindset is one that I see in the most successful people and I love that you're talking about that.

Scott Morris: 27:26

You know, william, there's there's an aspect here too that I think, like you've got to, I beat myself up a lot. I have a lot of negative dialogue inside my head. Why did you do that? That was totally cringy. Like down to like stupid stuff, like why make that LinkedIn post? Like who?

Intro/Outro: 27:43

cares.

Scott Morris: 27:43

Nobody wanted to hear that.

Scott Morris: 27:45

But I think as a leader, you've got to give yourself a little bit of grace, right that you are on that journey with your people, and somehow we get it in our heads that as leaders, we're somehow some kind of cut above.

Scott Morris: 27:56

There's this concept I worked in higher ed for a long time and they have this concept called first among equals.

Scott Morris: 28:01

That pervades within the academic side of the house, and the notion that a department chair is the boss of the faculty is just this nonsense notion. Right, they're first among equals, and I think there's a lesson for leadership inside of that that somehow we think of ourselves as separate from the team. We're on a journey and we just have the responsibility for making some tough calls that other people on the team don't have. But with that, as kind of the exception, we're a lot more similar than we are different. And so thinking of a leader as first among equals and to your point about everybody's going to teach you something there's nobody on your team that's not going to teach you something if you're paying attention and I think that's true as a founder too there's no aspect of what you do in a day that doesn't teach you something if you're open to it, if you're paying attention, if you're looking for the lesson. That's so true. At least that's what I've learned.

Dr. William Attaway: 28:56

That's so good. You know, as a one who is continually learning and I see the books on the bookshelves behind you like you know, constantly learning and growing what are some books that have made a big difference in your journey that you would recommend to the leaders who are listening, because there are a couple that I really, really, really like One of them.

Scott Morris: 29:19

I had the real privilege of going to an executive ed program at Harvard with a professor named Ron Heifetz, and he and a guy named Marty Linsky wrote a book called Leadership on the Line, and I think this is an amazing book. It's a book about adaptive leadership, and one of the things that they say in this book is leadership is a verb. It's not a noun.

Scott Morris: 29:44

And you can only see it when it's being exercised. And the role of leadership is to frustrate and provoke an organization and I would say as a parenthesis or a person or a group at a rate that it can absorb. And so your role as a leader is to be constantly sort of challenging, but that sort of gentle pressure toward something that benefits the whole. And that's the basis of the book. And then they go into how you do that and it's just a remarkable book. They are two remarkable individuals and I was happy to have been a part of that program.

Dr. William Attaway: 30:14

Oh, I love that. I haven't read that.

Scott Morris: 30:16

I got to read that now I will tell you another one and I'll keep it to two. But read that, I gotta read that. Now I will tell you another one and I'll keep. I'll keep it to two. But terry patterson's influencer is a really great book on change management and he I wish I would I could do his work justice, but he partnered with the authors of creep conversations. Oh, I love that. It's not just about the science and mentality of change it. It's about how to advance that change through honest, open and candor and dialogue.

Dr. William Attaway: 30:45

So good Now I got to read that one now. I love Crucial Conversations one of my favorite books on how to have difficult conversations. So so good, scott, I could talk to you for another hour. Every time we talk I learn something and you challenge me to grow in my own journey, and I know you've done that for the people who are listening as well. I know they're going to want to stay in touch and learn more about you and what you're doing with Propulsion AI. What is the best way for them to do that.

Scott Morris: 31:12

I think it's just two ways. If you want to connect with me personally, linkedin is a great way. I love the connections and I love kind of some of the dialogues that have grown organically from LinkedIn at least for me, m Scott M. If you go to linkedincom slash in slash, m Scott M you can find me on LinkedIn, and then our website is a great way. If you want to go check out what we've built and what value it might have for you, get propulsion get propulsionai will lead you there. You can try it 100% free. We don't ask for a credit card up front. I'm a firm believer in the fact that if we build something that is good enough, people will want it. We don't have to trick them into anything. So go out. You can do as many as you want. Try it free, so good.

Dr. William Attaway: 31:54

We will have all those links in the show notes.

Scott Morris: 31:56

Thanks, Scott, thank you for your generosity today and sharing from your own story and from what you're be here. So thank you for having me and thanks for the conversation and the other ones that we've had, and I feel the same and I learned from you as well, so I appreciate it.

Dr. William Attaway: 32:27

Thanks for joining me for this episode today. As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode, and if you find value here, I'd love it if you would rate it and review it. That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast. Second, if you don't have a copy of my newest book, Catalytic Leadership, I'd love to put a copy in your hands. If you go to catalyticleadershipbookcom, you can get a copy for free. Just pay the shipping so I can get it to you and we'll get one right out.

Dr. William Attaway: 33:04

My goal is to put this into the hands of as many leaders as possible. This book captures principles that I've learned in 20 plus years of coaching leaders in the entrepreneurial space, in business, government, nonprofits, education and the local church. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about. And if you're ready to take a next step with a coach to help you intentionally grow and thrive as a leader, I'd be honored to help you. Just go to catalyticleadershipnet to book a call with me. Stay tuned for our next episode next week. Until then, as always, leaders choose to be catalytic.

Intro/Outro: 33:47

Thanks for listening to Catalytic Leadership with Dr William Attaway. Be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss the next episode. Want more? Go to catalyticleadershipnet.