How To Build Teams With The Unicorn Innovation Model With Jen Kem

As leaders, we often face the challenge of turning big ideas into reality while navigating pressure, friction, and noise. In this episode, I sit down with Jen Kem, a top brand strategist and the creator of the Unicorn Innovation Model, to uncover how leaders can sort through ideas, build the right teams, and launch projects that make an impact. Jen shares her journey from corporate to entrepreneurship, highlighting lessons learned from working with global brands like Coca-Cola and iconic figures like Steve Harvey. We explore her proven framework, focusing on three essential tracks: Navigate, Motivate, and Communicate. Jen offers actionable insights on team building, overcoming leadership challenges, and integrating personal growth with professional excellence. Whether you're an entrepreneur, a corporate leader, or someone with a big idea, this conversation is packed with strategies to help you level up.

Connect with Jen Kem:

Join the conversation with Jen Kem on LinkedIn or Instagram, where she shares invaluable insights on building Unicorn Teams and launching innovative ideas. Don’t miss the chance to dive deeper into her strategies and pick up her game-changing book, now available on Amazon! 

Books Mentioned:

• The Tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell 

Right now, you can get an extra 20% off your ticket for the Scale with Stability Summit with my exclusive code CATALYTIC20 at checkout.

Visit scalewithstability.com to grab your ticket—I hope to see you there!

Right now, you can get an extra 20% off your ticket for the Scale with Stability Summit with my exclusive code CATALYTIC20 at checkout.

Visit scalewithstability.com to grab your ticket—I hope to see you there!

Right now, you can get an extra 20% off your ticket for the Scale with Stability Summit with my exclusive code CATALYTIC20 at checkout.

Visit scalewithstability.com to grab your ticket—I hope to see you there!

Chapters

• 0:38 Journey to Leadership Excellence
• 9:07 The Unicorn Innovation Model Explained
• 16:10 The Power of Building a Unicorn Team
• 24:45 Challenges and Solutions in Leadership
• 31:35 Balancing Leadership and Life
• 36:45 Timeless Lessons for Visionaries
• 39:35 Final Thoughts and Call-to-Action

Transcript

Dr. William Attaway: 0:37

It is such an honor today to have Jen Kim on the podcast. Named as a top brand strategist by Forbes, jen specializes in launching innovative ideas with high-performing teams. Her unicorn innovation model has been used by iconic brands like the Oprah Winfrey Network, blue Cross, blue Shield and Oracle, as well as numerous New York Times bestselling authors, keynote speakers and business and thought leaders. In her new book, unicorn Team the nine leadership types you need to launch your big ideas with speed and success, kim shares the innovation playbook on how to build the most collaborative, harmonious and motivated team to achieve extraordinary results. Originally from Hawaii, kim lives in the San Francisco Bay Area with her husband and kids. Jen, I'm so glad you were here. Thanks for being on the show.

Jen Kem: 1:31

Thanks for inviting me. I'm so looking forward to our chat today. I am as well.

Intro/Outro: 1:37

Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed to help leaders intentionally grow and thrive. Here is your host author and leadership and executive coach, dr William Attaway.

Dr. William Attaway: 1:53

I'd love to start with you sharing just a little bit of your story with our listeners, particularly around your journey and development as a leader, and talking about leadership ideas. How did all this get started?

Jen Kem: 2:05

Well, it's a long winding yarn, as most stories go. I tell people I'm definitely not a spring chicken, I'm a season chicken. But I did start my career actually in the corporate world and I would say all of my work, even until today, has been accidentally opening up a door that then I just fully walk through and open. So you know, I thought I was that little girl when I was nine in school who said when asked who do you want to be when you grow up? You know, all the boys were saying they wanted to be doctors and police officers and firefighters, and all the girls were saying they want to be teachers and nurses and even moms. And I thought that was all wonderful. But my little precocious butt raised my hand and said I want to be the general counsel of Coca-Cola International. And that was my answer in second grade, third grade rather, and when I think back to that moment, because it's obviously a core memory for me, I think if you're listening to the show today now you're starting to get to know how I was.

Jen Kem: 3:13

I was like this very curious girl who loved to read and my grandmother, who didn't have more than a fourth grade education, but she, you know, had her own business in our house taking care of elderly people. Every morning she'd have her Lipton hot tea, her peanut butter toast, and she would hand me the business section of the newspaper she was reading and she used to say to me which means child in Filipino, which is my ethnic heritage? She'd say I'm. I don't understand this section of the newspaper, but I think that you'd be interested in it. And this is me being a second and third grader, and so from a very young age she just knew that I love to read and I would get my. I just wanted to get into anything. So I read that and I remember one of the stories in the business section was this guy who was the head attorney for Coca-Cola International and it was talking about their global expansion, right, something like that. And I was like, ooh, this person gets to travel the world and represent Coca-Cola. And I just thought, wow, that is so cool. And so, growing up I had a vision and I thought, oh, that's who I'm going to be. I'm going to be the head attorney for Coca-Cola, because I thought that that meant I get to travel a lot on someone else's dime, like literally. That's why I wanted to do it. It had nothing to do with. Oh, I want to be a lawyer or I want business, and so I pursued that in college.

Jen Kem: 4:34

But what happened was I was going to school in the San Francisco Bay Area, which most people know is pretty much the center of innovation in the United States. You know, a lot of technology and even biotechnology is centered there, and so because of that, you get a job and you kind of fall into a job, and the job that I fell into was working for as an intern for one of the biggest advertising agencies in the world called Ogilvy. Many of you might have heard of Ogilvy Also, david Ogilvy is the godfather of marketing, who was the founder of that agency and so early in my career, I started to realize how much brands and influence was shaped through not just storytelling but, frankly, through the people who rallied for those stories and behind those stories, and I became keenly aware that that was something I was super interested in. Now, interestingly enough too, coca-cola was one of our biggest accounts. This was back in the 90s that's how old I am, okay and so I didn't become general counsel of Coca-Cola International, but I did get to work on their billion dollar marketing budget. That's how much they had put aside. And this was in the knees friends, this was in the knees right To basically pedal sugar water across the world. But really, why is it such an iconic brand is because of its storytelling, because of its ability to tap into nostalgia, and anyway, I got really, really interested in that.

Jen Kem: 6:04

And then I got interested in how do you bring a brand to market, because it was like how do you actually shape and message the brand? Then it was like how do you actually bring the brand to market so people want it. So I wanted to get experience in that and so I went to go work in high tech because I was really interested in all the newfangled things and I got to work alongside people like Tony Hsieh from Zapposcom, who then got acquired by Amazon. I got to work at eBay in the early days, when it was huge. I got to work with Nestle. So I got to be involved in a lot of these things and one of my last jobs in corporate was working with Verizon to bring to market something that we all take for granted now. But if you're a Gen Xer or elder, millennial and older, you remember that we used to buy cable TV and now all we do is buy streaming services, right.

Jen Kem: 6:52

And so I was one of those people that the go-to kind of market specialist who brought these big new ideas to market with. And to do that, who brought these big new ideas to market with. And to do that, william, I had to rally different levels of organizations right, like from the boardroom to the workers out in the field, putting up, like laying copper and fiber optics into the ground very different mindsets, very different values, very different things. And I had to work with the marketing teams to stay what I call intrapreneurial and innovative and be able to communicate that to all the different stakeholders. And so, because I had this experience, when I decided to go off on my own in 2006 and start my own company, which was very scary I realized that this as an entrepreneur, because now I was becoming an entrepreneur.

Jen Kem: 7:47

When I was an intrapreneur, you know, I I realized that one thing that was missing from all my counterparts and groups that I was in is that the same rules, if you will apply, even if you're an entrepreneur, it just has to be sized differently for, uh, you know the things that when you're starting out, sometimes we think we're gonna like throw everything away and then start from scratch. And actually that's where I got very interested in what actually makes people want a brand. It's actually not the product and it's not the service, and it's not even the story. It's the people, people. So that's why I wrote this book. That's a little, that's a little taster of my whole background.

Dr. William Attaway: 8:27

What a fascinating journey. I mean, and I would imagine if we were to go back and talk to that little third grade girl she would have no idea the twists and turns that would take you to where you are now.

Jen Kem: 8:38

Definitely no. I don't think I would have been an entrepreneur. I never had these dreams to be an entrepreneur either. I was an I'm definitely an accidental entrepreneur now. So, yeah, I think if I could talk to her again she'd be like oh, that's how it, that's how it worked, that's how it unfolded.

Dr. William Attaway: 8:56

And there's no wasted experience, you know, and all of that has contributed to make you the person, the leader, the business owner and the writer that you are today, and I've always operated that way.

Jen Kem: 9:07

I was always. I actually tell people I was never really good at math, but what I was good at was building charts that helped me understand how things worked, and so the unicorn innovation model is one of my master frameworks that I realized really impact how you can get people to want what you have, and it's the first of four frameworks that I say you need. So the master master framework is what I call brand time, so team identity, messaging and experiences. So this book, where the unicorn innovation model is the first model that I'm introducing to the world it's my new big idea that I want people to know about is really the visual framework, the visual model that I just described. I was able to create to make those results happen when I was both in corporate as well as my entrepreneurial career.

Jen Kem: 10:25

So there are three tracks to the innovation model. The first track is called navigate, and navigate means what ideas are worth implementing, because we have a million ideas Trust me, I have a million running through my brain right now as I'm talking right and so one of the things when we think about success and impact as a leader, we want our ideas to take flight and we want them to change people's lives and, frankly, we want to make money doing it if we're in business. And so first you have to sort out your idea. So inside of the that framework, I give you three core exercises that you use to sort whether your idea is worth pursuing in the next season. Okay, and it doesn't mean that your ideas that don't pass muster, if you will through that process, are good.

Jen Kem: 11:21

It just means they might not be for you to do or they might not be, for you to do next Right, and it's really important to do that so that we know that our ideas and our vision are still being stoked and exercised, but that we can stay with our eye on the prize Right. So that's the navigate track, with our eye on the prize right. So that's the navigate track. The next track is the motivate track, and that is how do you motivate yourself first as a leader. So what kind of self-motivation comes from you to be the unicorn, if you will, that will rally other unicorns around. This idea that you have vetted in the navigate track, and that idea that you've vetted the navigate track, and that idea that you've vetted book literally tells you how to organize it so that, as you are speaking about it to other people whether they are people who you want to already purchase current things, or it's a brand new idea that you know that you need the best possible people that you can afford at that moment to get it going. That's the motivate track. So in that track you determine what we call your unicorn leadership type, which is basically your, where you derive your motivational energy from. And you know there are a lot of books on time management and my premise in the unicorn innovation model is that actually it's an energy thing because you can have all the time in the world, but if, in the time you do have, you have zero energy to actually do the right hard things to push through pressure, friction and noise which we all encounter, then it's very difficult to. If you can't motivate yourself, it's very difficult to motivate other people, right. Motivate yourself, it's very difficult to motivate other people, right. And so that's what that track is. And what's very cool is, when you have the book, you get access to this really juicy assessment. I'm big on diagnostics and data too. That helps you and it's 51 pages, custom to you, of what your unicorn leadership type is, so that you know the kind of energy that you need to embody to stay with it, stay with the idea, so that you can actually bring it to life.

Jen Kem: 13:28

And then the third track is the communicate track, and that's us actually opening our mouths and saying this is what I've got, this is what I got to do, and organizing it in such a way that you build the proper what I call campaign elements, because at the end of the day, I'm a strategy and marketing and brand expert and so to bring a new idea to market. Most of the reason why people fail to launch, or their launch is anemic or it doesn't go off the way that they want to, is because they actually don't have a communication cadence and process to navigate the internal and the external messaging. And so this innovation model is so holistic, like I could have written a book on each one of the tracks separately. I could have taken all the pieces and parts and, by the way, the publisher really wanted me to do that and I felt so strongly that I wanted to give the whole picture in a model so that people could navigate it wherever they were. And so that's the high-level overview of the Unicorn Innovation Model.

Dr. William Attaway: 15:41

It's fascinating. Like you, I love frameworks, I love visuals that help me to understand something, and your book really paints that as I think through. As you were putting this together, I imagine that you have used this with so many of your clients, people that you have worked with. Could you share a story or two from those experiences of how you've seen this look and play out?

Jen Kem: 16:05

Oh, yes, and I love that question because a lot of people come to my company and they want to rebrand themselves or they want to bring a new product to market, whether it's a services based product or it's an actual physical product. Right, and the first question that I ask always is tell me more about your team. And they're like this is not a team thing. I just want you know you to help me re-message the way that we are doing this. I want you to pull up the right stories and I am like we're going to get there. We're going to get there. Okay, that's the communicate track. That's step three in my model. But first we need to figure out who's on your current team and when I say team, by the way, for all of you listening, team can include, you know, part-time contractors. It can include, let's say, you have an executive coach like Dr William here. You know he's part of your unicorn team too, like anyone that is supporting you to get your ideas into the world is part of your unicorn team. And your unicorn team doesn't have to be forever. It has to be about the idea that you're bringing to market. So, to tell you a specific story, I got the opportunity to work with Steve Harvey. Many of you probably know him. He's first a comedian and then became a talk show host. He's a New York Times bestselling, author of two books and he's a mogul Like a lot of people don't know. He has a lot of business ventures going on behind the scenes, including a hair company like a man's suit company. He's got so much going on and when he was writing his second book, act Like a Success, his team knew that he needed a different messaging because he had to be. This book was about how to be a successful person, and although, yes, when you look at Steve Harvey, you see him as probably a successful person because he's an entertainer, he's on TV, he's this and that, but that doesn't mean that the work that he does can land on everyday people who want to be successful like him. And so when I came into the mix with his company and his team, I asked that question tell me about your team? And they're like oh well, yeah well, we actually have an amazing team. We have. We have our radio show, we have our. We had.

Jen Kem: 18:20

He had like a couple million followers on Twitter at the time. He obviously was on mainstream TV. He was also in. He also had his own talk show that he was aiming to kind of beat Oprah's record on at the time, and so he had a lot going on. And because of that they thought, oh for sure, just because he has this, we're going to be able to not just sell a lot of books, but we're going to be able to build an entire business around it. And that's why they brought me in, because they wanted to not just leverage the brand, they wanted to build a new product line based on the book itself. And so when I came in, I used the exact innovation model that's in this book on that whole opportunity.

Jen Kem: 19:02

Okay, cause I was like first, let's take a step back, we need to zoom up. I would say like this book allows you to be the it's our current staff or our team Maybe we're launching a book, for example and we were told we have to get a publicist, you know, to launch our book, and this book helps you pick the right people for the idea you have. And that is so critical because it's so easy to default. So my point with the Steve Harvey story is the same thing was happening, right, and they were like well, we have all these amazing assets and I'm like, yes, they are amazing and we definitely are going to leverage them.

Jen Kem: 19:54

And part of using your unicorn team right is inventorying what you currently have, right. It's kind of like oh, these are all the opportunities we already have here. Now who are the right other players or processes or tools or opportunities do we actually need? And then, of the current players, who don't we need in the current player set so that we can focus on getting this IT to market? Because there's nothing and I don't know about you, but for me, when I was in corporate and even now I have a team, obviously in my company there's nothing, and I don't know about you, but for me, when I was in corporate and even now I have a team, obviously in my company there's nothing that your team groans about more than hearing about all your new like wildly amazing ideas, and then they're like okay, here now you just gave me 20 other things to do that may not even happen.

Jen Kem: 20:43

You know and right, and so it's this upfront work and the model helps you do that and it doesn't take a long time. In fact, when you do this book first, before you do anything, you're going to move quicker because you're going to identify what and who you really need and then you're going to be able to communicate it clearly. So, with Steve Harvey, that's what happened and because we approach it that way, not only, obviously, his book did very well, but we built an entire intellectual property system around him based on the act like a success book, and that turned into three digital programs, a certification and a two times a year conference called Act Like a Success, and that company made millions of dollars in the time that it was there. Now, by the way, if any of you are looking it up, it no longer is there, and the reason is Steve Harvey decided I don't know if I really like this whole like creating content thing, right, I mean, and it is. It's a different vibe, and that's the other thing I want you to understand is those ideas don't have to live forever. You could sell that idea and he that's what he ended up doing is selling that company and it created all these opportunities.

Jen Kem: 22:02

And I just want you all to know, all of us it doesn't matter if it was Steve Jobs, steve Harvey, dr William Attaway, jen Kem or you, the listener, every single one of us started in either a garage, across a dining room table talking about our big ideas and deciding that we wanted to bring it somewhere, and so all of us have had pressure, friction and noise and struggle along that way. I have for sure, um, and so I want everybody to hear like sometimes entrepreneurs will say, yeah, but you know what? That's not me. I'm a small business. I don't want to get big and I'm like, actually, the most successful small businesses, even if you want to stay the size you are, because that's what the kind of business you want to run.

Jen Kem: 22:48

These principles and this framework inside this book is company size agnostic, right, it doesn't matter what size company you want or your vision is. What matters is that you have the proper strategy inside of it. And this is a strategic book and I think that in today's world, you're not understanding especially entrepreneurs are not understanding that strategy is the glue between vision and execution, and so many people are dreaming and so many people are being told things, but without strategy it lands nowhere. And that's where I come in and I'm hoping in this next season, that's what that is. I mean, I have what I'm calling William. I'm wearing my author pants now Because I turned, you know, this decade for me, 2025 to 2035.

Jen Kem: 23:40

For me, the goal is to get these four books based on my master models written so that I can share strategy more widely, because I think it's so important Strategists in corporations are some of the most important rainmakers in an organization, and I think entrepreneurs deserve this level of support too, and so, yeah, that's hope that helped.

Dr. William Attaway: 24:06

That's so good. You know, one of my favorite parts of the book was the last section, where you talk about challenges and solutions, and there's no such thing as forward progress and growth without challenges, right, right, and I love how you, how you talked about this and you didn't just position the problems and the obstacles and say so these are some of the ones you're going to face, but you move to the solution side, could you?

Jen Kem: 24:31

share a little bit about those.

Jen Kem: 24:32

Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, I just want to acknowledge, I just want to plus one all the things what you just said. I think that even us talking about a book that I wrote, it's so easy for people to say my gosh, like how did you know? You're so inspiring, you got that done. Blah, blah, blah. And I always say thank you so much and oh my God, this was one of the hardest things I ever done. In fact, I think writing a book is now when I thought about, like, what are the hardest things I've ever done in my life? One was being a parent and two being an entrepreneur and I'm like, actually now, books are number one. Books are number one. Okay, it beats having kids or entrepreneurship and I don't say that to scare any of you. It might be different for you.

Jen Kem: 25:16

For me, it was extremely challenging. It felt like how am I gonna justify this book to my team when we already have a full plate? We've got amazing clients, but because we work with clients that also have a lot going on right, whenever you add a new thing, it causes again distraction, pressure, friction, noise, and so I like to say the only way that I can embody my highest values, which are autonomy, justice, generosity, leadership and legacy that the only way I can truly embody that for me and as a leader, is to eat my own dog food. So, in order to be that, I was like look guys, here's what I'm willing to do as a leader. I know that I'm going to need space for this book. I'm going to need to really think it out, because I want to write a book that is very well done. I don't want to just write, I want to write my best, and in order to do that, I'm going to need space. And so, before I write this book, this is what we're going to do. And so that was five years ago. This is my point. Wow, wow.

Jen Kem: 26:29

I knew that writing this book, if I wanted to write a book that was a masterpiece and also get my team to rally not just behind it, but to not feel annoyed that I was throwing a grenade like we so typically do as the head of our companies and don't get me wrong, trust me, if you ask them, they tell you I throw grenades too. Just please, don't think I'm perfect, but this particular idea felt so important to me. Remember, in the first part of the model about navigate the idea at a million ideas, I was like this idea feels really important to me. What is the quote unquote sacrifice I'm willing to make to be able to get this done at the level of excellence and standard that I have, that I want to put out into the world? And so, when we talk about challenges and solutions, I just want to offer everybody to always ask themselves this question does it really matter to you? Because if it does, then you will take that extra, just that little extra time to do it.

Jen Kem: 27:29

And unfortunately I didn't have this whole book written five years ago. I had obviously our models documented and we ran our company this way, but now this book is an entire playbook, so it won't have to take you five years to prepare your team like I did. It took me five years. Maybe it would have gone faster, but honestly, I was kissing a lot of donkeys too along the way.

Jen Kem: 27:51

I say, like you got to go find your unicorns, but in order to find your unicorns you got to kiss a lot of donkeys along the way. Even worse, sometimes you got to kiss some jackasses, which is below the donkey level, you know. And then we're so busy being workhorses, so it's kind of like. That's the spectrum. It's like jackass, donkey, workhorse, unicorn, right, and we're so busy being workhorse that this book allows you to get out of the workhorse for a moment, even pop up to your unicorn, be that eagle, and ask yourself what do you really want? How do you really want to be seen? And that's why the next book is want to be seen, and that's why the next book is going to be on identity Remember team identity, messaging experiences Because if you actually believe that you want to be seen differently, like I wanted to be seen as an author, a speaker, really someone who has ideas and thoughts that I felt would help more people and in order to be that, instead of just just the CEO of an eight figure company, I had to envision myself and this is the process to move that needle, and so when I talk about chat, this is the solution.

Jen Kem: 28:58

So you don't have the challenge. The challenge is I want to be an author for me and I want to be a well respected author. I want to talk about bigger ideas. I want to like help people cut through the noise. I want to be a well-respected author. I want to talk about bigger ideas. I want to like help people cut through the noise. I want to share my wisdom.

Jen Kem: 29:13

I want to share the stories of my clients, and in order to do that, I had to make some sacrifices and, as I said, I kissed a lot of donkeys. I even chose. You're not going to. This playbook is not going to help you choose unicorns every single time, but it's going to help you choose people faster and fire people faster. When I say fire, maybe release them and not blame yourself or get stuck in something that's not going to work for you, because that's a lot of times what we do is we don't fail fast enough, so failing is the path to success. And secondly, we hang on too long to ideas and people that aren't meant for us in the next season, and so this is an elegant way to manage it.

Dr. William Attaway: 29:55

That's so true, so well said. I see this a lot with clients. Yeah, you know they're trying to hold on thinking that, oh well, it'll get better, it'll get better, and their strategy is hope. Right, hope is not a great strategy, it's not, it's definitely not.

Jen Kem: 30:13

It's a nice feeling. You know it's a nice feeling and I like, I'm sure you do. I believe in hope, but I bet on strategy. You know, so the percent yeah absolutely right.

Dr. William Attaway: 30:25

Let's talk about you for just a minute. I mean, we've talked about you, of course, through this, but I want to dial in a little bit on you as a leader. Your team and your clients need you to lead at a higher level today than they did five years ago, for sure, and that same thing is going to be true three, four or five years from now. Three, four or five years from now. How do you stay on top of your game? How do you level up with the new leadership skills that your team, your business and your clients are going to need you to have?

Jen Kem: 30:55

I love that, and that's actually a unicorn team question for me, meaning who's, because I really think it comes out to who. Who will I be around? Who am I learning from? Who will I be around? Who am I learning from? Who am I helping guide me in the next season?

Intro/Outro: 31:14

You know, because whenever you're going for the next level you're going to meet a new devil, am I right? So it's like that's the next level next?

Jen Kem: 31:18

devil moment. And so, because of that, even the unicorn team model for me is about my personal and personal development, my ability to go. Who's my health? You know quarantine, you know, for me I'm in perimenopause, tmi. Sorry friends, but this is the truth. This is the season I'm in and it's a very hot, hot season. Definitely different energy, different way that my body works. It's. It's crazy and I was like, wow, here I have all these new professional endeavors, like a book and all the things, but if I'm not managing my health unicorn team. So it was like I need a different nutrition team, I need a different.

Jen Kem: 31:57

And then at home, even reorganizing our life with my husband and my kids, like, hey guys, this is kind of the next season, mom is in, let's talk about the next season. You is in, let's talk about the next season you're in. And these are kind of the who we need to be in this next season for each other. You know, because you're not just the leader at work, you're the leader at home. I tell people all the time like most business problems are fixable. There's always some expert, some knowledge out there and you need those people to get you through. But if you don't actually unicorn team, your life too, if you don't like figure out your personal needs, and so that's how I show up.

Jen Kem: 32:37

Really to answer your question is it usually has to do with am I tending to the relationships in my life? Am I taking care of my body? Am I emotionally and mentally feeling healthy? And then, of course, being around other people who challenge me in both, not just like saying, hey, jen, good job, you're amazing, but actually challenge me and say, hey, you know, have you thought about this? Hey, you know, you keep talking about you, want to make that big ask. You know, and I haven't seen you do it yet. Are you going to do it? You know, having those friends, those colleagues around you just matter so much, especially as you ascend and also as you descend, because you will do both.

Jen Kem: 33:22

You know, I feel like life is a series of everything between a category five hurricane and a lazy river. You know, I feel like life is a series of everything between a category five hurricane and a lazy river. You know, and you're going to hit. But unfortunately we live in a world where it's like you only see those two things, you're only like, oh, let's have all this space and time and ease and grace. And then there's the side of like, oh my gosh, be a hustler, or you know, or literally you're having a moment in your life where you know trauma or something's happening which is going to happen to all of us. So for me, it's all about managing that in between. That's how I can be a better leader at in my business and at home, especially at home.

Dr. William Attaway: 34:00

So I love the holistic nature of that answer. You know so many people want to compartmentalize their lives and pretend like what happens at home doesn't affect what happens at work.

Jen Kem: 34:13

Oh, my gosh, I wish. I just want to secretly say what I wish it was like that, my God, it would be easier.

Dr. William Attaway: 34:20

Oh, it's just not true. It's just not true true, it's just not true. We're one unified person. That's what integrity is where all the parts of your life are integrated.

Dr. William Attaway: 34:33

They're all touching each other, and I love the holistic nature of that answer. I think that is so indicative of health. I want our listeners to make sure that they take note of that. If you have fallen into the trap of thinking that you can compartmentalize and build walls between the parts of your life, that is not a path that is going to take you anywhere you want to go because that's not healthy and it's not realistic.

Jen Kem: 34:55

It really isn't and this isn't a gender thing. A lot of times people will say, oh, masculine energy, feminine energy. I actually don't believe in either of those things. I believe in integration over separation, and that is because, honestly, men and women, I'll just say even we've been socialized to think those are separate too, and I want to offer all of you listening that, even if we wish it were true, it's not like we need to bring more of our integrated selves to our team, to ourselves and to the people that we love and care for, and once we start becoming that person, people will start to become themselves more too and show up as their integrated self, and I feel like that's the bigger even takeaway from all of this.

Intro/Outro: 35:48

So good.

Dr. William Attaway: 35:49

Jen, when I talk to other authors, I always ask this question. I know you are a constant learner. You're always learning and listening and growing. Is there a book that has made a big difference in your journey so far? That you would recommend to the leaders who are listening yeah, I definitely have.

Jen Kem: 36:05

Well, I have a few. My number one book since my 20s that I've been referring is the Tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell, and he just came out with his new one, his 2.0, called Revenge of the Tipping Point, and I would argue I still like his first one better. Even though times have definitely changed because of technology, it's the concepts of the book that I really really like, still love so much, so I would say that that's always my number one recommendation, and then Perennial Seller by Ryan Holiday.

Dr. William Attaway: 36:38

I haven't read that one.

Jen Kem: 36:40

Oh, it is so good If you want to become a person who doesn't just launch things, but actually builds things that people want forevermore. It is a great, great book.

Dr. William Attaway: 36:54

Checking that out.

Jen Kem: 36:54

Yeah.

Dr. William Attaway: 36:55

Thank you for that.

Jen Kem: 36:56

Yeah.

Dr. William Attaway: 36:58

Jen, I could talk to you for another hour Same. This is so, so good. I've so enjoyed our conversations and your book. Thank you, I've so enjoyed our conversations and your book. I know our listeners are going to want to stay connected to you and continue to learn more about what you're doing and read your book. What is the best way for them to do that?

Jen Kem: 37:14

Yeah, so just go to Amazon or any of your favorite retailers digital or, obviously, in person. If you don't see the book at your local bookstore, just tell them hey, I'd like to order this book, and that actually will help out a bookseller in a local neighborhood. They can easily buy it for you and send it to you. But obviously Amazon is usually the easiest way to get the book and I welcome that. It's also going to be available, obviously, in an audio version and in a Kindle version as well. And then to hang out with me, I'm on LinkedIn at Jennifer Kim, and I'm also on Instagram. I'm on all the platforms, but LinkedIn and Instagram are the places I like to communicate and talk and have dialogue with you. And then I have a YouTube channel where I teach a lot of different concepts, just like I do in the book.

Dr. William Attaway: 38:05

And we will have links to all of those in the show notes. We've timed this episode release, so it's coming out the day that this book releases, and I'm so excited that, as you're listening to this, you can go get this book, and I'm going to challenge every one of you to do that. It's worth it. It's going to be one that you're going to keep and you're going to read and you're going to share so many great concepts here. Jen, thank you again for writing it and for your generosity of time and insight today.

Jen Kem: 38:29

Oh, thanks for having me. It has been such a great conversation.

Dr. William Attaway: 38:33

Thanks for joining me for this episode today. As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode, and if you find value here, I'd love it if you would rate it and review it. That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast. Second, if you don't have a copy of my newest book, Catalytic Leadership, I'd love to put a copy in your hands. If you go to catalyticleadershipbookcom, you can get a copy for free. Just pay the shipping so I can get it to you and we'll get one right out.

Dr. William Attaway: 39:09

My goal is to put this into the hands of as many leaders as possible. This book captures principles that I've learned in 20 plus years of coaching leaders in the entrepreneurial space, in business, government, nonprofits, education and the local church. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about. And if you're ready to take a next step with a coach to help you intentionally grow and thrive as a leader, I'd be honored to help you. Just go to catalyticleadershipnet to book a call with me. Stay tuned for our next episode next week. Until then, as always, leaders choose to be catalytic.

Intro/Outro: 39:53

Thanks for listening to Catalytic Leadership with Dr William Attaway. Be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss the next episode. Want more? Go to catalyticleadershipnet.