How To Master Law Firm Marketing Systems With Leonard Scheiner

Marketing isn’t optional—it’s the engine that drives growth. Yet, many law firms struggle with the perception that they can’t afford it or that it doesn’t work for them. In this episode, I sit down with Leonard Scheiner, CEO of Geek Haus, to uncover the secrets of effective law firm marketing. Leonard has spent over a decade helping law firms grow predictably, including taking one client from $150,000 to millions in revenue through his proven frameworks.

We explore the critical need for scalable marketing systems, how to strategically align your budget with firm goals, and what to do when leads don’t match your niche. Leonard shares actionable insights on turning referrals into revenue, hiring marketing help at the right time, and avoiding the most common growth pitfalls.

Leadership growth also takes center stage as Leonard emphasizes the importance of personal development and intentionality in achieving business success. Whether you’re a solo practitioner or managing a growing firm, this episode will equip you with strategies to scale your practice while building a solid foundation for long-term growth.

Connect with Leonard Scheiner:
 

As the CEO of Geek Haus, Leonard Scheiner has helped law firms achieve remarkable growth through strategic marketing systems. Visit GoGeekHaus.com or check out his free Podcast Guest Intensive at PodcastGuestIntensive.com to elevate your practice and amplify your brand. 

Books Mentioned:

• Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss

Join the New Catalytic Leadership Community

Check out our new online membership site, with new resources by Dr. William Attaway and his team added weekly: https://checkout.catalyticleadership.net/

Chapters

• 0:00 Leonard’s Leadership Foundations
• 2:46 Overcoming Law Firm Marketing Myths
• 5:41 Building Scalable Marketing Systems
• 8:11 Mastering Lead Quality
• 13:28 When to Hire Marketing Help
• 19:17 Common Marketing Pitfalls
• 23:53 Leadership Growth and Personal Development

Transcript

Dr. William Attaway (00:02.074)
I'm excited today to have Leonard Shiner on the podcast. Leonard's been helping law firms, solo attorneys, and business owners for the past decade with a focus on developing their brand, marketing for new clients, and predictably growing the revenues and online authority for his clients. One firm achieved a 300 % increase in revenue, while others have earned millions of dollars worth of new business driven from Leonard's frameworks.

and tactics. Today, he's the CEO at GeekHouse, a law firm marketing agency based in Los Angeles. Leonard, I'm so glad you're here. Thanks for being on the show.

Leonard Scheiner (00:43.512)
William, it is a pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Dr. William Attaway (00:46.963)
I would love to start with you sharing a little bit of your story with our listeners, particularly around your journey and your development as a leader. How did you get started, Leonard?

Leonard Scheiner (00:59.352)
So, you know, we could go into the conversation of nature and nurture, but we'll leave that for a different day. So it really started, I think for me, at a very young age, right? I kind of joke, but not so jokingly, about how people would, you know, play restaurant or they would like play lemonade stand. Well, I never wanted to be the lemonade stand person. I wanted to be the lemonade stand manager.

Right. That was always the focus and not to, you know, not, to put that in, in, in a light that was, misguided at all. But I think that that was really a testament to the leadership quality that I just innately have. Right. I think that some people are born with a certain.

Dr. William Attaway (01:28.019)
Mmm, nice.

Leonard Scheiner (01:51.678)
level of skills, right? And maybe other people are not, right? Some people are good at math and science. Other people are good at writing, you know? So when I was very young, it was pretty evident that I was just into business, right? Like, how does money move? How does businesses work? How do you grow a big business? Like, I was just very interested in that, you know, economics from a very young age and going through university and then business school.

I knew that I wanted to educate myself to be able to have very intellectual conversations, right? Small talk is great. That's wonderful. It's how we get to connect and know people, right? We can't dive into the deep end first off, but I think that there's something to be said for that hunger for always learning and yearning to grow. Yeah.

Dr. William Attaway (02:45.779)
Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I talk about a teachable spirit, and that's what it sounds like you're describing. You're just constantly learning. You're in learning mode in every environment of your life.

Leonard Scheiner (02:58.382)
So true, so true. So I started off in a small town, you know, very small, and then moved to Southern California, Los Angeles, Orange County, and that's where I really started my professional career was in law in Orange County, which is one of the best places to be for that industry because there's a lot of professionals. They're very astute in that area of California. And so...

When we look at leaders in legal in California, it's usually in Southern California or in the Bay Area. I started as a marketing intern at a law firm, the lowest of lowest, and worked my way up the ladder to eventually become director of marketing, CMO for an international law firm. What that taught me was that different stages require different levels of leadership.

And when you're managing yourself, it's a very different conversation than when you're managing a small team. And the same is true when you're managing a large team, right? Managing three people versus managing 40, it's quite a different experience. So I was thankful, I am thankful and grateful that I stair stepped up in that way because I didn't know it at the time, but it let me appreciate.

the building blocks that I was building within my own skill set.

Dr. William Attaway (04:27.571)
I love that. When I think about marketing, law firms, that's a very unique niche because you're thinking about so many different ways that you can do that. But when a law firm is just getting started out, when you've got a solo practitioner or even just a very small partnership, one of the questions I think that often comes up is we can't afford that. How can we even think about marketing? And yet that's the thing that drives new business.

When you hear that, when you hear that tension, and people probably describe that to you in different ways, but that could be, say, the root thread, what is your response to that? How do you deal with that?

Leonard Scheiner (05:10.446)
It's a great question. And it's a question that I often get from, from people who are looking to either they're in a firm and they're looking to go out on their own, right? They're in a big firm going out on their own, or they're just maybe coming out and wanting to hang their own shingle straight away. And really in that aspect, my response is that you need marketing because marketing is how you grow. Right? It's like, you need food, right? If, if you didn't have money for

Dr. William Attaway (05:35.495)
Yeah. Right.

Leonard Scheiner (05:40.046)
marketing, then there's really no vehicle to propel the growth of the firm forward, right? Don't get me wrong. You can do referrals, you can get word of mouth, and that is how most of us start, right? In any business, right? But when you're looking to implement a system, right? And ideally, systems should run your business. So when you're looking to implement a system for growth, a system that is marketing, we want to make sure that it's scalable.

to where the firm is today, right? So maybe the firm can't handle a hundred new clients this month. That's perfectly okay. Maybe this firm only needs two clients or 10 or 20, whatever that is, right? So we want to make sure to gauge what are their goals and then work that back into, okay, so what is the plan? What's the strategy? What are we doing? Because I know attorneys who are spending

Dr. William Attaway (06:33.107)
Hmm.

Leonard Scheiner (06:36.046)
you know, six figures, $100,000 on ads every single month. I also know attorneys who are spending $2,000 on ads every single month. And guess what? They both want results, right? So it's really about having a trusted advisor. Someone like myself, obviously, doesn't have to be me, but whoever that is that you're looking at for your mentorship, for your advice, should be able to match it to where you're wanting to go.

Dr. William Attaway (06:40.115)
Wow.

Leonard Scheiner (07:05.186)
based on where you are now.

Dr. William Attaway (07:08.403)
I think professionals like attorneys would resonate with that. I'm not going to go to chat GPT and ask it for legal advice. That's just not a recipe for success. I'm going to go to somebody that went to school for this, that's educated, that has the experience and the skills and the knowledge that's necessary to solve a problem. That's what you do. You're a professional advisor in the marketing space to help them do this so that they don't have to learn and get all the experience that you have.

Leonard Scheiner (07:28.438)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. William Attaway (07:38.171)
That's why you do what you do.

Leonard Scheiner (07:41.272)
And it's very true to say that you don't have to break the bank to get results, right? You need to be strategic, but you don't have to break the bank. So, yeah, you really want to make sure that it matches where you are because otherwise you're going to try something and you're going to waste a whole bunch of money. And then you're going to say marketing doesn't work. Right. And there's a lot of gurus out there that will share with you

Dr. William Attaway (07:47.161)
Mm, that's good.

Leonard Scheiner (08:11.064)
tips and tricks and we do this and we do that. And then, you know, it's kind of like they're selling you a ham sandwich and then you get inside and there's no ham in the ham sandwich. You're like, wait, this is the whole reason, right? So, so I have worked in-house at firms where, you know, in my early career where we were just cresting maybe 150, 200 grand, right? Like, you know, this is long, long time ago. I was in university at the same time, right? Like,

Dr. William Attaway (08:20.679)
like that. That's good. That's good.

Leonard Scheiner (08:41.16)
No one was making a lot of money in that firm, but it grew over time. Right. And now that firm is doing multiple millions of dollars. And so when we talk about marketing, when we talk about growth, when we talk about leadership, what's going to need to happen at a firm that's doing a hundred thousand dollars is very different than a firm that's doing 4 million, right? That the tactics, the, the strategies, also the amount of stuff that is happening. Right.

So we just want to make sure that we're kind of pairing that well with where they are and the goals that they're looking to achieve.

Dr. William Attaway (09:18.941)
You know, one thing that I hear frequently from business owners is, yeah, I hired somebody to do this and they got me some leads, but they were all bad leads. Like none of the leads were any good. Not all leads are created equal. And sometimes that's the business owner's fault for not following up on those leads. And sometimes it's because those leads were not a good fit. They weren't the right quality. How do you deal with that particular problem?

Leonard Scheiner (09:44.27)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. William Attaway (09:47.901)
when doing marketing for your clients.

Leonard Scheiner (09:50.68)
first thing I'll say is that if you're doing any type of online marketing, you're going to be casting a net, right? And then wanting fish to hop in that net. And inevitably you're going to catch some fish that you need to throw back. And that's okay. Right? I had a conversation a few weeks ago with a client and, and, and they're saying, well, we're running a PPC campaign and we're seeing like spam, right? It's like,

You know, Bob Jones at, at Bob Jones, one, two, three, four at Gmail, right? Like, you know that it's spam. And, and the response to that is that you can't avoid that, right? If you're going to go outside when it's raining, you're going to get wet. If you're going to do marketing, you're going to get a certain percentage of those leads that are spam, right? You can do certain things, right? To, reduce that and to block against spam.

But you can't ever completely avoid that. Right. So that is really at the first and foremost of what I share with clients when they're doing marketing, because, you know, we want to make sure that we're delivering quality leads. Right. So there's always going to be a portion that spam. Now the other portion should be great, right. But we have to qualify them. So you're going to have people who think with all great intentions that they are a great fit client. Right.

I was hit in a car accident or I'm getting a divorce. I'm doing that like whatever the area of law is, you could be a great fit client, but not for that firm. Right? So here's what I mean by that. So if I'm a personal injury firm and I only want traumatic brain injuries, right? And if I'm a potential client and I just got rear-ended, I might need an attorney.

Dr. William Attaway (11:29.735)
Yes.

Leonard Scheiner (11:46.722)
But the traumatic brain injury attorney doesn't want my simple rear end, right? Because my brain's fine, my body, you know, it's fine. So you might have a case, but it might be for a different firm. And so when I'm working with clients, I'll tell them, look, what you're coming, what's coming into you, pick what you want, right? Cherry pick it. There should be enough volume where you can pick and choose the cases and the new clients that are coming in.

Dr. William Attaway (11:55.741)
Yeah.

Leonard Scheiner (12:15.362)
But then here's where you're making some money on the back end. In law, there's referral fees. And it's very commonplace for attorneys to reciprocate referral fees, right? That's how we keep it fair. And so if you're getting cases, right? Say we had 100 leads come in, right? And you're going to take a percentage of those. The ones that don't fit, look for other attorneys.

Dr. William Attaway (12:18.547)
Hmm.

Leonard Scheiner (12:42.222)
who are local to you, who are in your network that you can have a referral relationship to. One of my great clients does that. They're actually on the receiving end of this. So there's a larger firm out there that is very specialized, very niche in the type of cases that they take. And the rest, what do they do? Do they just turn them away? No. They refer them and have a secondary source.

Dr. William Attaway (12:54.515)
Hmm.

Leonard Scheiner (13:11.392)
of revenue from those referred cases. So this is why it takes someone who has seen the industry, who's walked the walk and who's negotiated these deals, because we don't want to leave any money on the table, but you got to know what you're doing in order to do that.

Dr. William Attaway (13:27.667)
So when is it time to hire somebody like you? mean, this is a question I think business owners really struggle with. And I imagine attorneys at law firms are no different. Like, you know, they eventually get to the point where they do and they're like, man, I should have done this a year ago or five years ago. What's the trigger? What's the point where it's

Leonard Scheiner (13:34.819)
Mm-hmm.

Leonard Scheiner (13:51.15)
So I guess a two-part answer to this. So first part is that the first hire that you make is usually an executive assistant or an assistant or apparently something of that sort. But I would challenge everyone who's listening to this or an attorney or, you know, so we serve attorneys and doctors, so service providers, anyone who's listening to this, I would encourage you to say that that first hire

should have a marketing section in their job description.

Dr. William Attaway (14:24.925)
Hmm

Leonard Scheiner (14:26.57)
Even if they're a paralegal, even if they're a secretary, even if they're a whatever, right? There are marketing activities that can be done at a very general level, right? Making sure that you're on directories, getting yourself listed places, getting speaking engagements, going to networking events, having them fill your calendar with things that are going to benefit the firm. And that might be a

a co-tackling partnership, right? Because we could assume that the assistant doesn't know anything about marketing and that's perfectly fine, right? So the attorney is the business owner and the attorney gets to give that instruction. But that first hire should be someone who is focused on growing the firm, right? So instead of being a cost center for the business, now they're a profit center. We want to flip that. So typically in law firms,

You know, we're looking at most people being a profit center, but the assistants maybe, maybe not, right? We hire an attorney, we want them to bill, et cetera. But we can even do that at the, you know, lower assistant support service levels. We definitely want to make sure that we do that. So that's kind of the first part, right? Is that we want to blend that first hire that the firm is making, but then let's advance, you know, a few months or

quarters down the road and maybe that is just an assistant, right? And then the question comes up of when is their best time to make that hire? And so I would encourage you to think of when can you not afford to make that hire?

If you're bleeding and you're thinking about ways that you want to grow or to expand, have to know that there's a few steps before we can get to that growth, right? There's some distance between there. It's not like I dream a genie where it happens overnight or instantly, right? So we wanna make sure that we're setting ourselves up for success.

Leonard Scheiner (16:39.722)
and being able to hire with the thought that that person, again, is going to be a profit center, not a cost center. And a lot of attorneys or just business owners in general will look at marketing and look at, well, what's the ROI? Right? And when you're hiring an outside agency, you can have that conversation because there should be methods and systems and that type of thing where the ROI is pretty dialed in. But when you're hiring someone in-house,

we really need to support them in a different type of way, right? Because they're looking to the attorney for leadership in what they should be doing. So, little bit of a deep conversation there.

Dr. William Attaway (17:22.343)
Yeah, for sure. makes me wonder, given your track and your experience with so many different firms, as you look across that landscape, what are some ditches that you have seen people drive into? You have seen people who take this and run and they get those 300 % results. They are adding billions of dollars. And you see some people who don't because of some choices and decisions that they make.

Leonard Scheiner (17:46.318)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. William Attaway (17:49.851)
What are some of the ditches they're driving into or those choices that are leading to the unfortunate negative results?

Leonard Scheiner (17:58.862)
That's a really great question. So from the business perspective, from a firm perspective, we want to make sure that we are going after a clientele, right? We're looking for potential clients who can actually afford the services that we're offering. So an example of that is, you know, like a bankruptcy attorney.

Right? Bankruptcy attorneys have a really challenging time of signing a new client, more so than maybe like a personal injury attorney, because of the fact that there's conditions with that client paying the attorney, right? If it's for bankruptcy, can't be put on a credit card, the attorney has to be paid cash. We're also, for a bankruptcy attorney, we're marketing to people who categorically don't have money.

Right? And then we're asking them to pay us thousands of dollars. So that's a situation, right? Whereas, let's kind of flip it. If we are a personal injury attorney, we take cases on contingency. What's the barrier to hiring? There isn't, right? To retaining the attorney. It's we got to know you like you trust you, think that you can do a good job.

you know, feel comfortable with the relationship and then guess what? There's zero dollars down, they sign and they're good to go, right? Very different, right? So back to your question of what are some of the ditches that I've seen firm owners drive into is that? Is choosing a practice area or a subset of a practice area that is just more difficult to be able to grow in, right? So I've seen that happen before.

I've also seen the other side where a firm completely relies on referrals. And they say, well, we've got referrals and that's how we get 80, 90 % of our business. Great. That's fantastic. Don't get me wrong. Like that's remarkable. That's fantastic. But how many referral sources do you have? Two? Okay. So then that's scary, right? Or even if you have...

Dr. William Attaway (19:59.699)
Mmm. wow.

Dr. William Attaway (20:12.114)
Yeah.

Leonard Scheiner (20:21.422)
30 referral sources, right? I've been in firms before where there is a lot of different people feeding in business, right? Because the founder of that firm was networking, they had a great network, they've been in the industry for years. So they had lots of referral sources. So my response to that was, so you've got 10 referral sources that are feeding 90 % of your business.

What if you did marketing as well, you could probably double your firm, right? Because you're leaving cash on the table. And so one is you're not growing, right? You're not leading your firm to the growth and the size that it could be if you're only looking at one channel of new clients coming in. But then the other side is, you know, what if you, you know, what if you passed a

Dr. William Attaway (21:14.567)
Yeah.

Leonard Scheiner (21:19.874)
post a bad photo on social, right? I'm just kind of using a funny example. What if you do something or, you know, what if they all get hit by a bus, right? Like there's things that we have to be really cognizant of because if our livelihood and the livelihood of our firm and all of our employees and all of our staff, if that's relying on just a handful of people, you know, flinging back fish, I'm a little bit concerned.

Dr. William Attaway (21:23.507)
Yeah.

Leonard Scheiner (21:47.842)
You know, when we are doing systems, marketing systems, we want to make sure of three things. We want to make sure that it is repeatable and predictable and scalable. Those three things let the system scale on its own versus if we don't have one of those elements, it's kind of like a referral relationship, right? Where we're unaware of what's coming in this month. Maybe we don't know.

Dr. William Attaway (21:58.93)
Yes.

Leonard Scheiner (22:16.46)
So those are some of the challenges that I've seen firm owners get themselves into.

Dr. William Attaway (22:21.105)
I love that. I think that's an important point for every person who is listening, whatever your business is, whatever you're leading, if you're solely relying on referrals, that's not predictable. It's just not. And if you are depending on an unpredictable source for new business, that's going to come back and bite you. And I love that you talk about this and that that is part of your strategy to help these law firms, to help them and these other professionals.

Leonard Scheiner (22:41.848)
Yeah.

Leonard Scheiner (22:48.462)
Thanks.

Dr. William Attaway (22:50.279)
to help them move into a place where they have something systematic that is going to be repeatable and predictable. That's so, so healthy. Leonard, I'm curious. You have to constantly stay on top of your game. The digital marketing world is evolving and shifting day by day. mean, the most recent with the rise of AI and all of the different various and sundry things that go along with that, you constantly have to keep

Leonard Scheiner (22:57.741)
Exactly.

Leonard Scheiner (23:13.848)
Thank

Dr. William Attaway (23:19.653)
moving and keep learning and keep growing. But not just with industry trends, but also with the team that you lead. How do you stay on top of your game and level up with the new leadership skills that your team and your clients are going to need you to have?

Leonard Scheiner (23:38.168)
I love this question because it's really like a self question, right? I mean, we can talk about business, but at the end of the day, we all are humans, right? Under whatever jacket or clothes we put on and we have to look ourselves in the mirror. And when we realize that our good personal life and our good personal, you know, yearning to learn more and improve,

that really impacts our business or the job that we're doing, right? So for me, I'm very focused on staying up and keeping my personal self in a leadership mindset. So what does that mean? Right? It means I like TED Talks. It means I like personal development because I know if I improve myself personally, it's going to improve the business.

Dr. William Attaway (24:25.597)
Hmm.

Dr. William Attaway (24:36.627)
That's right.

Leonard Scheiner (24:36.78)
Right? Whether that is dealing with hard conversations and how you do that with empathy, but also effectively, or maybe it is, you know, handling a, a heated situation and you've got to first diffuse it and then come up with solutions. Right. And the mindset that I really embrace when working through client issues or

you know, my own agency issues or even like personal issues is that we want to be somewhere else than we are today. Right. And so maybe we're not going in the right direction or maybe we are going in the right direction, but we need to pivot and pivoting is not a problem. Pivoting is the solution. So looking at how not

Dr. William Attaway (25:28.658)
Yes.

Leonard Scheiner (25:33.73)
not how we can compromise, but how we can create a win-win. I'm very big on win-win-wins, right? It's a win for me, it's a win for you, and it's a win for the people around us as well. So when I come at problems or issues from that standpoint, I'm able to not get emotionally involved in the the mishegasm of things, and really take that perspective of

Dr. William Attaway (25:45.607)
Yes.

Dr. William Attaway (25:55.602)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Leonard Scheiner (26:02.21)
How do we move forward? What's the solution? It's that forward thinking that really moves us out of the issue.

Dr. William Attaway (26:11.399)
I love that. And I believe you're exactly right. Your business, your agency will never outgrow your leadership. You will eventually become the lid on your growth unless you are continually raising your bar, continually raising your lid, which allows for more growth in your team and your agency. And I love your commitment to continue to develop and grow. That's one of those things that if you're not intentional about it, it's not going to happen. You're not going to wake up one day.

and say, my goodness, I'm a fantastic high-performance, high-capacity leader. I don't know how that happened. I didn't mean for that to happen, but here I am. It doesn't work like that. You have to be intentional. And I love how you're describing the intentionality that you bring to that process.

Leonard Scheiner (26:57.266)
And it's also not a one and done box, right? Like we have, you know, things that we do monthly and quarterly and yearly and self-development or self-improvement is no different, right? It's not something that we do once and then checked it off, we're good to go and I'll revisit it in a few years. It's something that is intimately...

Dr. William Attaway (27:00.103)
That's right. That's right.

Dr. William Attaway (27:11.463)
Yeah, that's right.

Dr. William Attaway (27:19.697)
you

Leonard Scheiner (27:25.206)
apart, right? For me, I love listening to like audio tracks when I'm in the car, right? So sometimes it's music. But I also like I heard it said once, I want to have a university on wheels. I was like, I love that. That's a great image, right? And I forget who said that. But I was like, that's a really smart way to think about this, right? Because how many times have you heard, you know,

Dr. William Attaway (27:39.346)
Nice.

Dr. William Attaway (27:43.41)
Yeah.

Leonard Scheiner (27:53.134)
the new song or the new hit this, right? Like we've heard it and that's fine. But if I can take those 30 minutes I'm gonna be in the car and learn a new skill from either a podcast or a YouTube video or some, you know, content that I've subscribed to, that is key, right? And then I get to where I'm going and I get out of the car and I am better than when I got in that

Dr. William Attaway (28:01.107)
Yes.

Dr. William Attaway (28:19.293)
Yeah. I love that mindset. That's so healthy. That is so good. As you are continually learning and growing, I'm curious, is there a book or a couple books that have made a big difference in your journey so far that you would recommend to the leaders who are listening? Hey, if you haven't read this, it's worth your time.

Leonard Scheiner (28:20.706)
That's all.

Leonard Scheiner (28:25.058)
Yeah.

Leonard Scheiner (28:35.32)
Thanks for watching.

Leonard Scheiner (28:42.518)
Yes. So I don't know that it's really helped me in the growth part of myself, but the book Never Split the Difference by Chris Boss. I love that. I had to look it up just really quick because I wanted to make sure I got the author right. But that book is just a really good read. know, it's the book that you want to hold a little bit closer because

Dr. William Attaway (28:57.267)
Chris Voss. Yeah.

Leonard Scheiner (29:12.046)
because it's just so good, right? And, you know, he used to be a negotiator for the FBI. And so some of the things that he talks about, it's great because he doesn't give a script, right? We talk about that in sales. Well, where's the script or, you know, where's the script for that? And it's not, it's a conversation. And so the skills that I pulled from Never Split the Difference,

is really like negotiating skills. It's human skills, it's relationship skills. So if I had to pick one book, I would definitely say that. And another one that would come up, and I'm kind of blanking on the details, but how to lead by asking questions, right? Like asking better questions, how you lead by asking better questions. That's a great one as well because...

Dr. William Attaway (29:59.773)
Mmm.

Dr. William Attaway (30:03.73)
Yes.

Leonard Scheiner (30:06.882)
we're gonna get the answers based on the questions that we're asking. And if we can ask really insightful questions, then we usually get better answers.

Dr. William Attaway (30:18.013)
so true. You will never get the right answers if you're asking the wrong questions. That's so, true. Leonard, this has been such a powerful conversation. I'm so grateful for your time and the generosity that you've shown in sharing so freely from what you've learned so far in your journey. I know our listeners are going to want to stay connected to you and continue to learn more from you and about what you're doing. What is the best way for them to do that?

Leonard Scheiner (30:21.219)
Mm-hmm.

Leonard Scheiner (30:29.752)
So that's

Leonard Scheiner (30:43.554)
Well, I'll offer two avenues. So, you if you want to go check us out online, see what our agency is about, you can do that at gogeekhouse.com. So go, geek, G-E-E-K, and then house we spell a little different, H-A-U-S. So gogeek, H-A-U-S, gogeekhouse.com. And I'll also share that if there's someone who's listening and they're like,

I want to get to that next level, right? I want to get more exposure. I want to put myself out there. Well, that's exactly what I do for professionals and service-based providers. And we do that through one avenue, which is media. And so just like this podcast, I share how professionals can get on podcasts, how to package your knowledge, how to take what you know and

put that into a pitch so that you can get onto a show. And that's really part of the training ground, right? It's like babies. We have to crawl before we can walk and run. And so I look at the podcasting space as a way to test different messaging, right? Really talk out pun intended, really talk out your points, really talk out what you think is going to resonate. And then from there,

We obviously I run a marketing and PR agency. So from the podcast, then we want to graduate into getting published on media, right? Like Bloomberg and Forbes, ABC and Fox. So in the in the instant moment, I run a semi regular training called the podcast guest intensive and the podcast guest intensive teaches you how to create your media bio that's magnetic.

how you find opportunities that already exist, you don't have to create them, and how do you pitch podcast hosts in a way that shows them that you can add value to their show and their listeners. So it's free to attend, it's happening in the next month or so. And so if you wanna register for that, you're welcome to go to podcastguestintensive.com. Again, it's free, I wanna encourage everyone, go to podcastguestintensive.com.

Dr. William Attaway (33:13.127)
That's so generous. I will make sure those links are in the show notes.

Leonard Scheiner (33:17.016)
Thanks so much.

Dr. William Attaway (33:18.419)
Leonard, thank you again for being here. What a great conversation.

Leonard Scheiner (33:21.922)
Thank you, William. It's been a pleasure.