How To Master Marketing Automation Strategies With James Hurst

Leadership is about influence, and today’s guest, James Hurst, demonstrates how to lead with purpose in the digital age. In this episode, I sit down with James, founder of The Marketing Show and a top affiliate for HighLevel, to explore the transformative power of marketing automation strategies. From his early leadership journey in Warsaw, Poland, to his transition from software engineer to entrepreneur, James shares how he leverages tools and technology to scale businesses without sacrificing integrity.

We discuss the nuances of thought leadership, the critical shift from ClickFunnels to HighLevel, and how to stay ahead in a rapidly evolving industry. With a focus on evergreen strategies, AI innovations, and timeless lessons from books like Meditations by Marcus Aurelius, this conversation offers actionable insights for anyone looking to enhance their marketing and leadership skills.

If you’re ready to unlock the potential of marketing automation and lead with authenticity, this episode is a must-listen!

Connect with James Hurst:

James Hurst is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to marketing automation and leadership in the digital space. Connect with him on Facebook or explore The Marketing Show to gain insights that can transform your business. 

Books Mentioned:

• Meditations by Marcus Aurelius 

Join the New Catalytic Leadership Community

Check out our new online membership site, with new resources by Dr. William Attaway and his team added weekly: https://checkout.catalyticleadership.net/

Chapters

• 0:00 Foundations of Leadership
• 3:30 The Transition to Thought Leadership
• 7:00 The Power of Marketing Automation
• 11:30 HighLevel vs. ClickFunnels
• 17:00 Integrity in Business
• 28:01 Books and Timeless Leadership Lessons

Transcript

Dr. William Attaway: 0:00

I am thrilled today to have James Hurst on the podcast. James is the founder and host of the Marketing Show, a show dedicated to online marketing, ai and marketing automation, primarily on the high-level platform. He's one of high-level's top affiliates, recently awarded the Gold Affillionaire Award. He's also a former ClickFunnels Dream Car winner and a specialty coach for Josh Nelson's seven-figure agency. After a decade as a software engineer, he transitioned into full-time entrepreneurship where he teaches others the power of marketing automation. He resides in Utah with his wife and five kids, where they enjoy hiking, rec league sports and skiing and snowboarding as a family. James, I'm so glad you're here, man. Thanks for being on the show.

James Hurst: 0:49

Hey, my pleasure man. It's good to be with you guys.

Intro/Outro: 0:54

Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed to help leaders intentionally grow and thrive. Here is your host author and leadership and executive coach, dr William Attaway.

Dr. William Attaway: 1:11

I'd love to start with you sharing a bit of your story with our listeners, particularly around your journey and your development as a leader. How did you get?

James Hurst: 1:20

started. I think I, you know, went through a traditional process of, like most people, with the college education right. One of the things, one of the things that, within our faith actually, we actually go on LDS mission trips. I think that's kind of something that helped develop me some leadership skills early on. I ended up getting called to serve in Warsaw, poland. Oh my goodness, yeah, yeah, yeah.

James Hurst: 1:47

And so you're 19 years old and you're out there, you know, knocking doors and probably selling one of the harder things to sell, which is changing people's lives in some respects. Yeah, in a foreign language that's extremely difficult, but you know, I guess early, I mean even before that. You know I was, I was heavily involved with, with Boy Scouts too. You know I was, I was an Eagle Scout, and if you're familiar with that, there's, you know these, these merit badges where you're. You know you're going to lead, you're going to be a troop leader. You're going to, you know, lead these guys you're going to achieve. You know your swimming merit badge, your uh, you know your swimming merit badge, your, your citizenship in the community, citizenship in the nation.

James Hurst: 2:28

I remember environmental science. I had to like observe plants, for you know, like, hours on end and or just in nature. So there's, I think, I think, um, I think my leadership journey started young. You know, uh, as you know, and even sports I mentioned you mentioned rec league sports. I think that's kind of you know um, one of the seed beds for for leadership as well. You know um team team sports, individual sports, so um, but yeah, and then I've always said, I know you've got a lot of books back there. I've had a huge love of reading as well, just whether it's audible. Actually, my favorite is reading an audible book, having it read it out loud to keep me zoned in on it, with the book in hand.

Dr. William Attaway: 3:09

Nice.

James Hurst: 3:09

Yes. If I really love, if I really love a book, I've got the audible and the and the physical copy, but so, yeah, does that answer it? Does that answer that?

Dr. William Attaway: 3:18

Yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely. You know, I think, I think making the leap into entrepreneurship takes leadership to a different level. You know, and I think when, when you become the guy in the chair, so to speak, you know you're, you're now responsible. You have a choice to make. You can either lead like all the people that you've ever worked for, or you can say I'm going to chart a different path. Yeah, how did you make that transition so?

James Hurst: 3:49

I was going to say that I'm actually kind of in this hybrid. I kind of feel like I'm this affiliate, almost like a freelancer I've had. I've worked with people. I don't have like a huge like team under me, like you know, a bunch of W2 type employees, like that kind of leadership I think uh, there's, uh there's there's leading your team like in a corporate sense, that way. But there's also like thought leadership as well. I think maybe more I I might lean more towards thought leadership in the, in the high level, in in the industry that way. But yeah, it is interesting because I really do admire the people that like not only are they trying to provide for themselves, they're putting the food on the table for for many people, you know, for their team members. Like you know, we talked about seven figure agency. A lot of those guys are running, you know, big, big organizations and a lot of people depending on them doing it right.

Dr. William Attaway: 4:42

Yes, it's so true, you know, and and true and I think what you just said is also true that thought leadership is simply influence in a different way. I mean, john Maxwell said that leadership is influence. There's nothing more and nothing less, and I think the leadership that you provide from a thought leader perspective has a tremendous impact on so many people in the high-level community and beyond. Yeah, thank you. Through how you teach about automation, really, what brought the automation focus for you? Like, how did you?

James Hurst: 5:14

zero in on it. Well, you know my generation kind of we grew up with like Apple, I don't know.

Dr. William Attaway: 5:20

You can't see in my background but I have an old Apple Classic Mac in the background. Oh, I see that. That's awesome.

James Hurst: 5:26

I haven't seen one of those in years. Yeah, I don't know what, how, how much the the camera can show, but you know, this is kind of. This is kind of the, the relic from the past. I love that, just to be able to create. You know, I started creating some computer programs and some animations back in the day on HyperCard. That led to, you know, some websites and then, you know, wordpress kind of came along, made things a little easier, and Dreamweaver all of that, and then ClickFunnels, and then I was finally finally made the made the bridge between a website and actually Stripe taking payments online, and I finally connected all the dots that this is how a website can actually, you know, make money online.

James Hurst: 6:23

But from a software standpoint, I just yeah, it was, you know whether it's yeah, just appreciating the ability to write code once and have it run multiple times. I think I've just I've been interested in scaling beyond and I've always just there's these principles of scale in the back of my mind of I can deploy human capital right. I can deploy financial capital, I can deploy software right. Media there's uh, and automations I've been very, always interested in. How can I free myself up from, from having to punch a clock because I've punched. I've punched a clock for so much of my life, yeah, and also just fascinated with how can I provide value without me physically being there? Could it be code that I've written? Could it be even the YouTube? Right, this podcast is a form of. You know, we're going to put the time in now, but it could live on and and grow over the years, right, and create value.

Dr. William Attaway: 7:25

So yeah, and and I love that so much of what you do is really about adding value, you know, to the people around you. I mean, I mentioned you're the founder and the host of the marketing show. Yeah, I mean, talk a little bit about that, like, why did you start that? Was it to to add value beyond what you could do one-on-one?

James Hurst: 7:50

Yeah, yeah. So you know, when I was in college getting out of debt, part of what got me through my lame job at the time was I would listen to the Dave Ramsey show for like three hours a day. And so people are just I could, I swear I could answer Dave's. You know I could, I could speak for Dave if I knew what he was going to say. And and I hated all the ads because he you know, he runs ads every, you know, every two or three calls. I had all his ads memorized. I finally bought life insurance, my term life insurance, thanks to him. That's great, um, and he did help motivate me, get me out out of debt.

James Hurst: 8:24

And I just always had this thought that what if I could be like the Dave Ramsey show? But I didn't want to tie, I didn't want it to be the James Hurst show. Yeah, because, you know, because, from a transitional standpoint, I didn't want it to be, you know, to be necessarily me, and so I was thinking the marketing show would be this place where I could answer people's questions, maybe monetize through affiliate or other means, and I thought, you know what, I'll answer one person's question, and it's answering one person's question at a time Anybody else, you know, if one person's asking it, many others might be as well. So just a form of leverage, a form of scale. I love that.

Dr. William Attaway: 9:06

And it's evergreen. Evergreen, yeah, I mean. People will be listening to this for years and able to answer questions long after you have first answered them.

James Hurst: 9:14

That's right. I will say, though, with how fast things are moving, because I've made videos. Specifically, one was on how to automate replies to Google reviews, and first I was doing it through Zapier and then I redid it using a little bit with OpenAI, right, so I could kind of take the context of that review and spin it, and I was so impressed with what it did. And here I am about having to, because now you can do it in high level natively, so I could be on the third time having to, because now you can do it in high level, uh, natively, so I am on the. I could be on the third time having to redo this. So this idea of evergreen is is slowly starting to fade.

James Hurst: 9:52

I'm just like what just? Is it just me, or do you also feel like just the pace of change is just well? What does it feel like for you on your side of this?

Dr. William Attaway: 10:03

Constant. Yeah, even just in the podcasting world. Yeah, I mean, this is the third season of the show and if you go back and compare even just our tech stack and our SOPs in season one versus today, it's dramatic shifts. I mean it's like whoa, wait a minute, we're doing the same thing. The pace is dizzying. Wow, it is, and you have to stay on top of it or else you become a relic. You know, you become a museum to a bygone era and nobody wants to be that, particularly in marketing.

James Hurst: 10:35

right, that's right, it's exciting, but it's also like it's a little bit overwhelming. A hundred percent.

Dr. William Attaway: 10:43

How did you get connected with high level? Because I was just at the high level conference. Yeah, I've never seen you there. Yeah, it's so amazing to see what's happening with a product that is constantly changing, constantly getting better. How did you get connected with them?

James Hurst: 11:00

So it was actually being in the ClickFunnels world. There was a lot of my contacts that they found out about it before I did and at that time there was a lot of oh, you know, this software is coming up, it's going to take, you know, it's going to do this and everyone's like, oh, everyone's trying to get in the ClickFunnels space. And you know, if I hear something once or twice, you know, but if I I start hearing over and over again from multiple people you know julie chanel. She was one of the first ones that she was like one of the bigger players. I started. I started seeing some of the some bigger click funnels.

James Hurst: 11:31

People take their audiences and move and it was tough for me because I was a top affiliate for, for click funnels and so for. For me to move it would mean kind of turning my back on this software that had, you know, biting the hand that feeds you. In a way I was. I would wear the ClickFunnels shirt. I had been to four of their conferences and gotten awards and I had my grievances with the ClickFunnels for a variety of reasons, a variety of reasons, and I I wasn't going to. I never, I never left loudly and and like they even taught us, I'll throw rocks at your competitors like they. They kind of. You know that. That was one of their things they taught and and I was like you know what I'm? I'm going to leave or I'm going to start high level, but just quietly, I'm just going to go and I'm not going to.

James Hurst: 12:25

Yeah, and there was, there was a transition period there, for sure, and it was a little bit it was scary because what if they cut off?

James Hurst: 12:31

What if they said hey, you're promoting a competitor, now we're going to cut off your commissions and et cetera, and so, but in a way I kind of felt like high level forced my hand because because the value was just through the roof and also I haven't talked about this in a while, but you know, in your entry you said I had a decade of software engineering experience.

James Hurst: 12:53

So when I came over to high level and saw sean just tackling the bugs and updating, you know, and like doing these almost daily loom updates, I was just like, wow, this really feels like a software company and and like what I like, wow, this really feels like a software company and like what I know. This is what I. This feels like home to me, because that's what you do. You have a team of developers and every two weeks you have a. You have a sprint and you're going to fix some bugs and you're going to release it and then and where whereas the culture at ClickFunnels was once a year we're going to surprise you with this big update and a lot of times that update wasn't what it was promised.

James Hurst: 13:30

There was too much over-promising there. Whereas high level was just like hey, we're going to slowly and steadily, we're not going to hide our bugs, yeah, there's a bug, we fixed this bug. We fixed that. We didn't pretend we were just a software company and so they kind of endeared me to them from that standpoint. And then the ability to white label high level was like for the same price as ClickFunnels I could now own my own little ClickFunnels and white label it and have unlimited sub accounts. And so that's what really, once I it was almost too good to be true. It was like, really, really, they're going to let you do that. And but once you, once you found out that that was the truth, it was, you know, it was kind of hard to ignore. And they've really lived up to everything they've said over the years too. You know, that's one thing that I've noticed.

Dr. William Attaway: 14:21

I mean, I've only, I've only been really in the high level ecosystem for a little over a year now, okay. Okay, I met Chase at an event we were both speaking at, yeah, and, and I was talking to him and I said so you know, I'm not an agency owner, I run a small business. Yeah, could this be a solution for me? And he was like absolutely, absolutely yeah, and pitched it. I was like, all right. So we came back and we moved everything website funnels, like everything over, and I have been so impressed from the client side that I was like now I'm starting to move into sharing high level with other people as an affiliate. Got it? I'm not at your level yet.

Dr. William Attaway: 15:06

That's okay, no, it's, but it's such a game changer for my business. Everything's under one roof and it all natively talks to each other. Yeah, why would I not do that?

James Hurst: 15:16

Yeah, you guys, he's right. So it's a great opportunity, even for a single business, even for one of my affiliate. Things I'm going for is forget the 297 and the 497 plan. Like every, like, almost everyone on the planet should have the $97 plan and have, at least you have, your three sub accounts. That seems like. That seems like a no brainer. And then, if it makes sense, then you get for a couple hundred bucks more. Then you're on to the 287 plan where you have unlimited sub accounts. So just crazy.

James Hurst: 15:49

Yeah, they've, yeah, they've done good and they've earned it. They, they just deserve it. There's a good culture, there's a good feeling around them. The people, the leadership. You could talk a lot about the leadership of Robin Varun and Sean. I like their blue jeans, humble style. You know what I mean style.

Dr. William Attaway: 16:18

You know what I mean. You know, I've seen that from afar. And then to be at the, at the conference last month, yeah, and to get to meet each one of them and talk with them a little bit. I was blown away by how real and authentic, yeah, they are even at, even at this point in the journey where a whole lot of people would have begun to let this begin to swell their head just a bit and begin to step back from, you know, interacting with people at all.

Dr. William Attaway: 16:39

It's such a healthy culture and I was just. I was like this is, this is remarkable. Yeah, I've told so many people about that.

James Hurst: 16:47

Someone ought to do. Uh, you know what makes this thing tick? Because, yeah, they're, yeah, and honestly, three founders that's two like partnerships are tricky. You know you have your value system and your but three, the fact that they work so well together and the mutual respect, yes, and being so active in the group. And you know everyone's like tagging Sean and they're like you guys, where else can you tag and get a reply from the founder of a, you know, I don't know a billion dollar valuation company?

Dr. William Attaway: 17:25

So and only getting bigger. Yeah, I mean, as they continue to. And that's the thing. Like every month, this product gets better. Every month there's new, every month it's getting better and stronger and I like what other? What other service software do I see? They get better every month. Yeah, okay, that's just not normal. And like Dave would say, you know, don't be normal, don't be normal.

James Hurst: 17:54

Yeah, yeah, no, leadership is. Yeah, leadership is fascinating because, yeah, yeah, no leadership is. Yeah, leadership is fascinating because, yeah, it's. You know, it's your values, right, that get turned, your business kind of reflects your values. Yes, right, that's exactly right.

Dr. William Attaway: 18:10

So, as a coach for seven figure agency like you are pouring into business owners, agency owners, leaders like you are investing in them in a very specific way. What drew you to them?

James Hurst: 18:23

There's actually a funny story about them. So I'm just kidding, I'm just involved with the high level community. People will say, hey, who's the best coach for you know, for growing your agency?

James Hurst: 18:32

Have you ever seen some of those posts where Josh just gives tech, so so you know, like I said, if I heard it once, you know, but if I hear it twice or three times, I start to pay attention. And uh, so I just, you know, came across josh, I have, I have a couple of his books too and I joined his free facebook group and I just love that's where I kind of hang out a lot. I I love joining other people's facebook groups and answering questions and learning. And uh, what was funny is I joined his. I found his mastermind, his paid facebook group, which is publicly on there. But you usually someone's gonna gatekeep this, this thing, and maybe I don't know, but maybe because I I had, by then I had been posting, I had people who knew who I was. Maybe by that time I don't know, but I requested to join his paid mastermind Facebook group and someone let me in. That's awesome. And I was just hanging out, ok. So these guys I was just like, I was most just like, ok, so they publish book. I was kind of like figuring out what is this? What is their angle? They have trade show booths and they they he must have this book that's half written for them, that they can white label. And people are publishing their books and and people would ask high level questions and I would post a youtube video.

James Hurst: 19:50

And I was just, and I knew a lot of them from, you know, I kind of seen a bunch of them around and anyways, it was the first summit that I had gone to, the high level summit, and I've been talking to Josh and we had exchange a little bit over DMS and stuff and maybe he was thinking maybe I'd be a good fit for seven FA or not, I don't know, but we had a little bit of a correspondence going on and I said, hey, you know, I'm going to bring your book. I wish if I could get you, you I would have you sign my book at the summit. So, sure enough, I remembered to pack the book and I had it with me and and there it was, uh, sitting at the vip lunch and by at this point I'm like, I'm like kind of starstruck by josh, you know. You know, like like it would be with sean or any of these people at first, and over time they become, they become colleagues, right, yeah, yeah, they become colleagues and and normal, it's like normal and you know each other. But at then I was like, hey, hey, josh, you know, and here's your book and would you sign in? And and there was a spot to sit there for lunch and we're talking, josh goes, uh, he goes.

James Hurst: 20:53

James, um, you're in the facebook group, he's like, but you're not in the seven figure agency. I was like you're right, and I know I didn't have access to the, the coaching program, or yeah, you know I wasn't, you know I didn't have access to the library, I was just in the group. And uh, he's like you know what, why don't you? Why don't you? How about you come coach high level for us? And I was like I would love to and that. And that's ever since that day I've been coming weekly and since then, you know, josh, let's see here. Yeah, it's crazy, has Josh been on mine? I don't know if Josh has been on the marketing show yet I've definitely done videos about seven figure.

James Hurst: 21:33

I've actually referred quite a few people. I've come out on site to a couple of their events and I'm like, not, you know, I'm not running that same type of agency, I'm just kind of this little extra guy you know running around with with those guys and it's a great. Oh my gosh, it's such a great group of of marketers and I love you know. Well, if it wasn't so cold here, you know, yes, yeah, yeah, we're going to have to send them that. We're going to have to send them that clip. That's right, josh and Yesenia, they're both just, they're both just the best, yeah, so, yeah, yeah, that's awesome, yeah, yeah, that's awesome man, I also recommend anyone to check those guys out 100%.

Dr. William Attaway: 22:24

You see, you are constantly helping other people, James. You are constantly pouring out and investing and, like you said, you're hopping into a Facebook group. Hey, this is how you do it. Check this video out. You're constantly pouring out. Let me ask you, how do you stay on top of your game? How do you level up with the new skills, particularly the new leadership skills, that you need to have three years, five years from now?

James Hurst: 22:51

That's a good distinction, because my game leveling up would be staying on top of the latest trends with like ai, employee and and close bot and like. From a technical standpoint that's, but from like a leadership standpoint. That kind of makes me think more along lines of like of ted talks you know on, or like a simon's, like a simon cynic, like leaders eat last kind of a book or yeah, or start with why and I have to say I'm not consciously, I can't say that I'm consciously doing that. You know what I mean.

Dr. William Attaway: 23:24

Yeah, yeah, and I think that's fair. And I appreciate the, the, the authenticity there, I think. I think that the challenge that any of us have, whether we lead a team of hundreds or whether we lead a team of two, yeah, or maybe even just meeting ourselves, right, your family, your family right, yeah, and you're the hardest person you're ever going to lead, you know, because you will make excuses for yourself all day.

Dr. William Attaway: 23:44

Well, I'll get to that. Well, you know. Oh, my goodness, I mean, the human capacity for rationalization is pretty much limitless in my experience.

James Hurst: 23:58

Well, for more authenticity, I authenticity, I meant to run. I may not be active today, but the day kind of slipped away and had my breakfast and I made it down here. But you know it's yeah the the. The disparity between you know, your, your uh ambition and what you actually do sometimes is embarrassing.

Dr. William Attaway: 24:11

But one of my mentors is is fond of saying that it's your uh direction, not your intention, that determines your destination, and I've never forgotten that. First time I heard him saying, I was like, oh yeah, you can have the best intentions in the world, and I often do, but it's the direction that determines where you're going. Yeah, intention so I think, I think that that is really authentic of you and I appreciate that. I mean, one challenge for all of us is to say you know, are we focused on that? Are we being intentional?

James Hurst: 26:18

I will say one author comes to mind. Can you see all those books? I have lots of books, but I have one that I have over 100 copies of, and there's another story around that too.

Dr. William Attaway: 26:31

I really like the Four Wheeler. I'm just saying the Four Wheeler, it grabs my attention, that's another story.

James Hurst: 26:40

So have you heard of this book? I have not, my goodness. So this is great for leadership. It's Ryan Holiday. Have you heard of him? Or have you heard of any?

Dr. William Attaway: 26:51

of his the name rings a bell, but I can't place it yeah.

James Hurst: 26:54

Well, I'm happy to you know, I'm happy to just give a quick overview, but he was this big marketer guy and somehow he came across some of the stoic teachings, a lot of old names like Epictetus, marcus Aurelius, a lot of like. You know, soundsetus marcus really is a lot of like. Uh, you know, sure sounds boring like. It sounds like a philosophy class in college and he just I heard him speak at funnel hacking live and I have just grown to love his books, that some of the titles that he has just to give you an idea discipline is destiny, obstacle is the way. Right thing right now, courage is calling a lot. I think you would.

James Hurst: 27:30

You would love, I, I would love to get you on on his stuff and oh yeah so I just I had been following him, he's like, and he's like a youtuber as well, and um, and so he had he is coming out with this with this new book right thing right now and I saw that if you bought like a hundred copies, you could have dinner. One of the perks was going to have dinner with, with, with the author oh man so, um, and they were, yeah, signed and numbered copies.

James Hurst: 27:57

This is actually, um, I uh, I was like, well, I have an audience, I have a list, I'll just I'll buy these books and then I'll sell them and I'll just get the money back and then I'll go out to dinner. But in truth, I still have like a hundred of these lying around. So I'm constantly reminded if anyone wants to buy the copy, don't go to Amazon, just send me a DM. I'm still recouping the that's awesome.

Dr. William Attaway: 28:28

I haven't read it. I'd like a copy. Yes, I'll get you a copy. That's awesome. I haven't read it.

James Hurst: 28:31

I'd like a copy. Yes, I'll get you. That's awesome. So I did get to go, I did get to go meet him, I flew out to austin, texas, and and I I was awesome, he's uh, he's wonderful, and I've and I've read probably I've read most of that book. But yeah, from a leadership standpoint too, integrity, right right thing right now, courage is calling, discipline is destiny these are all leadership kind of absolutely uh. Marcus aurelius he was, yeah, he was the leader, uh, or the emperor of rome for quite a while and he wrote I never heard, I never read the book, but meditation meditations, oh yeah see, I love that book yeah.

Dr. William Attaway: 29:08

Yes.

James Hurst: 29:09

So that is Ryan Holiday's favorite book, if that tells you anything about him. So yeah, how did you come across Meditations then?

Dr. William Attaway: 29:17

Because in graduate school, my minor was philosophy of religion. Okay, okay, and so we were introduced to a whole lot of different people. One of them was Marcus Aurelius.

James Hurst: 29:28

Cool to a whole lot of different people. One of them was Marcus Aurelius. Cool man. I had never really. I was not, I was. I was in the build, I was in the business building. I wasn't in any of the you know, I was in the I. You know the computer and the business program and the last thing I wanted to do is probably read philosophy. But once he's, once he started.

James Hurst: 29:43

Me too some days, yeah, days, yeah, once he started to connect it to just the stories. You know he writes, yeah, he tells, he illustrates principles through life. You know, uh, like the queen of england and marcus aurelius and these stories, um, one of my favorite ones was, uh, this guy had gone to war and it's in this book. Right thing, right now. This guy had gone to war. And and it's in this book, right thing, right now.

James Hurst: 30:09

This guy had gone to war and for some reason, they were going to let him free. He had been imprisoned and stuff, and I forget the reasoning, but he basically gave his word that, hey, we're going to let you free, deliver a message to your president or king, and his wife and family and all his friends are like, oh my gosh, you're free, you've been let back. You know, like you, you just tell a little lie and and you know, we'll protect you. Now you're, you're on, you're on your home soil and they can't get you here. And he's just like I gave him my word, you know, and he returns back to imprisonment or something like that.

James Hurst: 30:48

Yeah, it was like it was like pretty like deep, like kind of it really hit. Yeah, kind of like. But anyways, and man, there is a, there is a, there is a what's the word? A lack of integrity in the, in the, in the business world and in the and in the marketing world? I, yeah, I, I'm a. I'm a natural teacher. You know I'm not sales. I think sales is great, I think sales should benefit. You know both parties.

James Hurst: 31:19

But, man, I have been in situations where I was hearing people stretch the truth on. You know sales are selling one thing and you know what's being delivered is. There's a big gap there. And I have, man, I just I just did a. I just did a little job for a guy the other day and I was like I was kind of wondering if he was happy because it was like a partially complete thing. I helped him quite a bit, but we didn't get it all the way to the finish line and I didn't know that I could help him much more Even this way, even though I wanted to try it. I was just like, dude, I don't care yes, I care about money, who doesn't? But I just wanted him to know like, I really want you to only pay a price that you can, that you are completely happy with.

Intro/Outro: 32:02

You know what I?

James Hurst: 32:03

mean yeah and so anyway. So I think any book like that that can kind of strengthen your resolve to to do the right thing is, is a is a good thing for for society.

Dr. William Attaway: 32:17

Uh, you know, I think integrity is something that we should be talking about in kindergarten and teaching from the very, very earliest days. Absolutely. If we could increase the integrity in the workplace and in the family, I think this world would look very, very different this world would look very, very different.

James Hurst: 32:39

There's a, there's a I mean, I'm sure you there's. Stephen Covey is a classic, you know, classic leadership author. There's, I think, his son or one of someone, maybe Stephen R Covey, the Speed of Trust, I think is one of his books. Yes, yeah, and yeah, speed of Trust. I don't know if I've actually read it.

Dr. William Attaway: 32:56

If we're there's a difference between what's on the bookshelf and what's actually been read right. I have my two-read stack over here off camera.

James Hurst: 33:05

Yeah, yeah. So yes, trust as a currency is huge too, and I think that's one thing that I have developed in the community. It's because I'm a software engineer and I teach and I rarely sell.

Dr. William Attaway: 33:23

There is quite a bit of respect, I think, and just yeah, I love that, james, I can continue to talk with you for another hour, man. I just I love what you're doing and I love the integrity that you do it with. Thanks, so appreciate the generosity that you have shown today in sharing just some of the insights from your story so far. I can't wait to see what's next for you.

James Hurst: 33:46

Yeah and yeah, you've kind of got me thinking about leadership books. I, you know I do have. I do have them the Stephen Covey's and the John Maxwell's and the, the marketing, entrepreneurship and leadership tend to go together. It seems like.

Dr. William Attaway: 34:04

A hundred percent. Learning how to be a great leader is the work of a lifetime, and I think every one of us has to be a perpetual student of that if we want to continue to lead at new levels and continue to level up. I know our listeners are going to want to continue to learn from you.

James Hurst: 34:22

Well, thank you.

Dr. William Attaway: 34:23

And to be able to connect with you. What is the best way for them to do that?

James Hurst: 34:28

Yeah, so when I filled out the kind of the podcast interviewer form, I put a couple of different links to it. If they want to, you know I'm. If they want to go to Facebook and find me there, it's facebookcom slash OJ Hearst. That's just my personal Facebook. My YouTube channel is the Marketing Show. The website's themarketingshowcom. But yeah, find me in any of the groups. If someone does message me on Messenger, there's a chance it could go to spam, right? You know the other inbox if we don't have that many mutual friends in common. But yeah, that's the best way to get ahold of me directly, mostly just on hanging out on Facebook groups.

Dr. William Attaway: 35:08

We will have all those links in the show notes.

Dr. William Attaway: 35:10

Okay, james. Thank you again, man. So appreciate you being here today my pleasure. Thanks everyone for tuning in. Thanks for joining me for this episode today.

Dr. William Attaway: 35:20

As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode, and if you find value here, I'd love it if you would rate it and review it. That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast. Second, if you don't have a copy of my newest book, catalytic Leadership, I'd love to put a copy in your hands. If you go to catalyticleadershipbookcom, you can get a copy for free. Just pay the shipping so I can get it to you and we'll get one right out.

Dr. William Attaway: 35:53

My goal is to put this into the hands of as many leaders as possible many leaders as possible. This book captures principles that I've learned in 20 plus years of coaching leaders in the entrepreneurial space, in business, government, nonprofits, education and the local church. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about. And if you're ready to take a next step with a coach to help you intentionally grow and thrive as a leader. I'd be honored to help you. Just go to catalyticleadershipnet to book a call with me. Stay tuned for our next episode next week. Until then, as always, leaders choose to be catalytic.

Intro/Outro: 36:37

Thanks for listening to Catalytic Leadership with Dr William Attaway. Be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss the next episode. Want more? Go to catalyticleadershipnet.