How To Master Creative Advertising Strategies With Ken Moskowitz

What does it take to craft advertisements that resonate deeply, drive action, and stand the test of time? In this episode, I sit down with Ken Moskowitz, a creative powerhouse with nearly 40 years of experience shaping campaigns for some of the world's most iconic brands, from Coca-Cola to the NBA. Ken reveals the secrets behind his groundbreaking creative advertising strategies and how they’ve generated over $40 billion in sales.

We explore his journey from dissecting radio ads as a curious 12-year-old to becoming a trusted coach for the industry’s top copywriting teams. Along the way, Ken shares how he fosters creativity by designing intentional environments, empowers his team through trust and autonomy, and approaches challenges with resilience, including his battle with stage 3 cancer.

Whether you’re a creative professional, a business owner, or someone looking to break free from operational constraints, this episode is packed with actionable insights and inspiration to elevate your advertising game. Don’t miss Ken’s advice on capturing every idea, his recommended reading list, and his unique take on leading with generosity and authenticity.

Connect with Ken Moskowitz:
 
Ken Moskowitz brings an unparalleled passion for creative problem-solving and impactful storytelling. If you want to elevate your advertising game or simply connect with someone who understands the art of crafting memorable messages, reach out to Ken at ken@addzombies.com or follow him on social media.

Books Mentioned:

•  Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook by Gary Vaynerchuk

Join the New Catalytic Leadership Community

Check out our new online membership site, with new resources by Dr. William Attaway and his team added weekly: https://checkout.catalyticleadership.net/

Chapters

• 0:01 From Childhood Ads to Super Bowl Success
• 6:42 The Value of Authentic Creativity
• 13:25 Overcoming Creative Burnout
• 20:07 Leadership Through Trust and Autonomy
• 29:58 Resilience During Personal Challenges
• 35:56 Marketing Insights from a Pro
• 38:50 Embrace All Creative Ideas

Transcript

Dr. William Attaway: 0:00

It is such an honor today to have Ken Moskowitz on the podcast. Ken is a seasoned creative professional with nearly four decades of experience in the creative industry. He has led rebranding and revival efforts for major brands such as the Indy 500, Frida Leigh, the NBA, NFL, MLB and ESPN Sports. In late 2022, he wrote his 100,000th ad and has generated over $40 billion in sales revenue. With five children and a multitasking wife, Ken has honed his ability to juggle multiple tasks and bring divergent creative solutions to the table. His unique approach to advertising is edgy and memorable, setting him apart in the industry, and that's why today he coaches some of the advertising industry's largest copywriting teams, creative writers for small brands and entrepreneurs in growth mode. He is a sought after speaker for industry conferences like Social Media, Marketing World, Private Masterminds and Corporate Growth Events, which is where he and I got to meet and I got exposed to Ken. Ken, I'm so glad you're here. Thanks for being on the show.

Ken Moskowitz: 1:19

I'm glad I'm here. You know, I feel like I just saw you a few days ago.

Dr. William Attaway: 1:24

Just a handful of moments, wasn't it? And here we are.

Ken Moskowitz: 1:28

You can thank Pedro for bringing us.

Dr. William Attaway: 1:32

And Pedro's pizza the best in Dallas.

Ken Moskowitz: 1:35

So I hear inside joke, that's right. No, we're not going to let you in on this.

Dr. William Attaway: 1:42

That's just. That's just for us, that's right. Pedro's pizza for us, that's right. Patriot Pizza in Dallas, that's right. Oh, my goodness, man, every time we get together I laugh, and that is, I think, part of the joy that you bring to the conversation.

Intro/Outro: 1:58

Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed to help leaders intentionally grow and thrive.

Dr. William Attaway: 2:11

Here is your host author and leadership and executive coach, dr William Attaway, I want to start with some of your story. I'd love for you to share just a little bit of your story with our listeners, particularly around your journey and your development as a leader. How did you get started on this journey?

Ken Moskowitz: 2:28

You know I got to say I was a disappointment to my family, and when I say that I mean it sincerely. I was the black sheep of this New York Jewish family because I chose not to go down the path of doctor, lawyer, dentist, right, you know, you think about all the things that my people and that's what I use, the terms my people typically look at, and I went down this weird path of I want it to be in advertising, I want it to be in, you know, making ads. And and of course, my parents, my family, were like you can't make a living doing that. But as a kid I was a weirdo. While my friends and family were out going to the beach on the weekends Rockaway Beach, jones Beach if you're from New York, shout out. You know what I'm talking about Christopher Morley Park I would rather have spent time in my bedroom listening to and recording the radio.

Ken Moskowitz: 3:25

And I was recording the radio not because I wanted to hear the songs, I was recording the radio because I loved the ads. I was fascinated by advertising as a kid. Again, every kid's got their weird thing right. Some are into, you know, matchbox cars. Some collect stamps or coins. Others, like you know, every kid's got their little hobby.

Ken Moskowitz: 3:45

For me it was listening to, recording and analyzing I didn't realize it at the time advertising, and so I would listen to these radio ads, which then were 60 seconds long, which today is an eternity for an ad, and and I would I would look at why these ads were so effective, and I started to recognize at an early age that in 60 seconds the man or woman speaking could emotionally move someone to want something, to have a desire to take action, and I'm like that's fascinating. Now, of course, at that point in my life I was a kid. I didn't think about the psychology of it, I just thought it was really cool that the person on the radio could get someone to do things. And so I really studied advertising from a very, very early age and that was my jam, that was always my thing. And what I started doing is and this is a little, probably more detailed than you want, but I started recording these ads and then figuring out what about them, made them work, and then I started making my own ads and I was

Ken Moskowitz: 4:53

recording my own advertising for nothing Like I had. Never I wasn't writing ads for a client. I was 12 years old, okay, but I was making ads in my bedroom and recording them. And then I would make ads for friends and make ads for their fictitious lemonade not their fictitious, their lemonade stand or their whatever it is that they did. And then my first break, and it's funny, when I wrote my book, I didn't think about my first real break where I was paid to write an ad and I was still just a kid.

Ken Moskowitz: 5:26

Um, buddies Schwinn bike shop on casino Boulevard in Flushing Queens For those of you who grew up there know the area. I don't think buddies is there anymore but um, he was running an ad for his bike shop in one of those free local newspapers. It wasn't the New York post or the New York daily news or the times, it was one of those like neighborhood newspapers. It wasn't the New York Post or the New York Daily News or the Times, it was one of those like neighborhood, like penny savers, yeah. And and he said to me he's like hey, moskowitz, you're, you're pretty good at words, can you help me figure something out? So I'm like oh, okay, cool. So I.

Ken Moskowitz: 5:57

I did the first ad for him and it was a freebie. The the ad was really successful for him and so then he did a paid ad in I think it was the New York Post, because the Post had, or the Daily News had, these localized editions for Queens, brooklyn, the Bronx. So I wrote the ad for him and he paid me in bicycle supplies, nice, and so that was my first paid ad was doing an ad for Buddy's Schwinn Bike Shop in Queens, and so I just was a nerd from a very early age Like I realize now at pushing getting close to 60, that my path was carved very early in life, was carved very early in life and I never veered from that path and I still don't. I love what I do, it's fun for me, it's a game for me, and every time I see advertising that's poorly done or ineffective or they missed an opportunity to really just punch it, it kills me, because this is what I eat, breathe and and sleep Wow.

Dr. William Attaway: 7:05

We talked a little bit about this the first time we met. My dad started an ad agency back in the 70s and I grew up in that world, watching the traditional advertising way before there was digital Right, and watching him wrestle through exactly what you're describing right how to do the hook, how to hit the pain point, like how to dissect things but I've never heard anybody put it like that, particularly from such a young age 12 years old and you're dissecting ads from the radio, figuring out what works and what doesn't.

Ken Moskowitz: 7:40

And William, you know it's really interesting. So part of my childhood and part of this journey into advertising, I really have to thank a man that I despised as a child. So I've got to give you a little backstory on this. So my nickname, spanky, is a nickname that I hated as a kid. I was four years old. It was Rosh Hashanah. Everybody was at my grandmother's house for the Jewish New Year and my uncle, hi Jaime Kulinski does not get any more Jewish than that Came over and slapped a propeller beanie on my head and took a picture and captioned it because I was a pudgy kid and I looked like Spanky from the Little Rascals. I was four when that happened. The next year I started school and that picture hung in my parents' house, my grandparents' house. Needless to say, all my friends started calling me Spank at. I think it was called Lion's Gate or Gate of Lions.

Ken Moskowitz: 8:47

I forget where the reception was, but I'm walking into the restroom. The story is going to get a little weird and personal. And right behind me Uncle High walks in. Uncle High was a formidable guy. He wasn't huge but he was like a stocky, beefy dude. And Uncle High walks up to me and he goes shh, and he takes this envelope and he opens up my jacket and you know the inside pocket of a jacket. It puts the envelope in my jacket and he goes shh. Your parents know about the gift out there, this is for you. And I walked out of the bathroom. He's like a mobster, right. Well, what my parents didn't know at the time, they know now. Uncle high gave me a lot of extra cash that was not in the gift check, that was on the. You know where all the gifts were, or just wanted to do something nice for me. It was Uncle High who funded my first professional recording equipment set up in my bedroom, and it was at the age of 13, because he had given me enough money for me to buy two turntables, a complete mixing board recording equipment, a reel-to-reel cassette recorders, microphone I mean he hooked me up Also. Back then prices were lower, okay so, and between the whiz and crazy eddies, I was in business and so I had all of the equipment, thanks to Uncle High.

Ken Moskowitz: 10:17

Wow, but I still hated the nickname, and when he died, of course, as a kid I could not rationalize this. I thought, oh, thank God my nickname is finally going to stop Not associating the fact that, like Uncle High, had nothing to do with the nickname carrying on. It was just at that point. It was cemented in my DNA. But I will thank Uncle High to this day for giving me that cursed nickname when I was four.

Ken Moskowitz: 10:45

And that's because in the advertising industry everyone calls me Spanky. No one remembers Ken. They never forget Spanky. Gary Vee calls me Spanky Literally. He does not call me Ken. The people I know at Name the Company they call me Spanky. Wow, know it at name the company. They call me spanky. Um, and so he blessed me with a nickname. I didn't understand was a blessing as a child, because in the creative field when someone has a problem they're like call spanky, he's the guy to fix your message. And so it really. It was a blessing and a curse. But first it was a curse and I know I went probably way deeper on that than I needed to, but I thought the context of that was.

Ken Moskowitz: 11:28

You know someone who's going through therapy. You know that's right.

Dr. William Attaway: 11:33

Well, I think it illustrates that there's no such thing as a wasted experience in our lives. There isn't, there isn't. You know, everything we go through is part of what makes us who we are. You know, what we encounter that we think is fantastic and what we encounter that we think is is a curse, like you're saying. But how that has turned and and what has become I mean a hundred thousand ads it's insane. And and not just any ads, I mean you've got some Superbowl ads any ads?

Ken Moskowitz: 12:03

I mean, you've got some Superbowl ads? Yeah, I mean I've, I've done a lot, like my when I think about where I started and what I've done, I don't sit there and go, oh wow, I've done these things, it's just, it's just what I do and so it's just part of my normal day to day. I mean I, but I love what I do so much and I love the fact that I've done written stuff for every, every NFL team like that. That, to me, is it's not a badge of honor, it's just, it's cool. And the fact that there's nerdy ad kid, which I still feel like I'm a nerdy ad kid at. You know, I'm at, I'm 57. Okay, I'll be 58 in the spring. I still feel like I'm a nerdy 12 year old dad kid and and that's that's to me, you know, and I always look at opportunities to fix messaging.

Intro/Outro: 12:53

And so when I see something that's busted.

Ken Moskowitz: 12:55

I, to this day, I reach out to companies and I will say, hey, I saw this message and I had an idea. Here you go and I'll literally send them something. And that starts conversations and has landed me quite a few clients over the years, because I don't do it with the intent of grabbing their business. I do it with the intent of like your message sucked. Let me fix it.

Dr. William Attaway: 13:21

Well you lead with generosity.

Ken Moskowitz: 13:23

Yeah, I do. Well, you lead with generosity. Yeah, I do, it's in my DNA, because I want to make advertising awesome, and the only way to make advertising awesome is to fix things that suck and when I see an opportunity, I take it and I fix it.

Dr. William Attaway: 15:13

So let me dial this in for just a second, because you've come across this a couple of times how much you enjoy what you do, the joy that you bring to it yeah, has that always been the case, or have there been moments where it has been a little bit more of a drudgery? How do you keep that fire burning?

Ken Moskowitz: 15:31

William, I'll tell you where the drudgery comes in is when I get out of the lane of creative and I go into the lane of operational, or go into the lane of being the doer rather than the creator.

Intro/Outro: 15:44

That's good.

Ken Moskowitz: 15:45

When I get into doer mode it's dangerous, because I lose my drive, I lose my desire, I lose my interest.

Ken Moskowitz: 15:56

I have shiny object syndrome and I think a lot of entrepreneurs do. But as a creative so forget the entrepreneur side. As a creative, I have really shiny object syndrome, like you know. It's horrible. Thank God for Vyvanse, you know it's, it's truly. It's so funny, you know, and I'm not advocating everybody to take medicines for ADD. It's so funny, you know, and I'm not advocating everybody to take medicines for add.

Ken Moskowitz: 16:19

But I my wife, for 25 years tried to convince me to take something and finally that wall got broken down and I'm like, all right, I'm gonna try it as long as I don't lose my creative edge. And when I started taking it, I'm like, oh my gosh, the noise is gone and my creativity went even higher, because now I'm not dealing with the distractions of all the shiny things. But for me, when I get out of the space of creative and I get into the space of doing things or becoming the implementer or the integrate, that is, that is the death of me. So for me, the best place is in those chairs behind me, letting my brain cook up new ideas at the smart board, jotting, do this. And I want to talk to you, especially if you're like in the agency space or in the marketing space.

Ken Moskowitz: 17:20

I really, when you, when you're in the creator mode or creative mode, you've got to step away from these things, these computers and screens and devices. They don't, they don't bring out your best creative, they suck you down a rabbit hole of distraction. And so when I'm in creator mode, um, here I'm gonna go grab it, and this is where creativity happens. It's the written word in my notebooks, this is where I write all of my ads, this is where everything wow, and but if you'll notice, it's not here at my desk mm-hmm it's back there in my creative corner.

Ken Moskowitz: 18:00

Why do I have a creative corner? It's because I can shut off my screens. I turn off the overhead lights that I'm using right now so that you can see me. I have atmospheric lighting in the corner. I have atmospheric lighting over there and I get into a Zen space, because creativity requires that. Creativity requires quiet, it requires contemplative time, it requires, sometimes, white noise. I want you to look and I'm not just speaking to you, william, I'm speaking to everybody who's listening to your podcast I want you to look at the times in your life and the times in your day when you have the most creative thoughts and everybody says, oh, I had the best thought when I was in the shower. There's a reason for that you don't have any distractions and you have white noise and you have nothing but your thoughts and create. And so when that happens, all of these subconscious things that are buried in the back of your head get to bubble up and you're like, oh my God, I have the greatest idea ever, right?

Ken Moskowitz: 19:07

That doesn't happen when you're sitting in front of three screens, like right now. I'm sitting in front of three screens, I've got perplexity open here, my calendar open here. You're here. Right, this is not a creative, a creative inducing environment. Yeah, that is. And so you've got to separate yourself from the technology that you work with on a daily basis to create.

Dr. William Attaway: 19:26

That is incredibly valuable. You know, as I'm. As I'm thinking about this, I often tell leaders that that creativity lives in margin, and if you don't have margin in your life, you know this is likely why you think, well, I'm not very creative's because your, your pace is wrong, your rhythm is wrong, and I love how you just described that. And, but particularly around the physical environment, I believe environments matter and what you just described the lighting, the seating, the notebook, like that is incredibly intentional on your part in creating this, and I bet you didn't start knowing all that, but that over time, right.

Ken Moskowitz: 20:08

You learned when I was in my before I left the corporate world, so here's what my lighting would be like if I didn't have these overhead blasters on Hold. On, come on camera, follow me, okay.

Dr. William Attaway: 20:19

Oh, wow.

Ken Moskowitz: 20:20

Okay, so you can see right there by my grandfather's flag. So this is this is his flag.

Ken Moskowitz: 20:24

He was a world war ii vet and come on, camper, right over here there you go and then back in the corner there's a light and then on this wall there's led lighting that gives me. So, yes, very intentional. Now probably gonna make all your listeners and viewers soosick it, but here's the thing. It didn't start that way, but over the years I evolved to that and so when I left my corporate job, when I left the corporate creative world, it was interesting Everyone. So I had my own space, my own office, my own creative haven. Everybody called it the cave.

Ken Moskowitz: 21:04

I never had the overhead lights on, I had candlelight, I had atmospheric lighting in different parts of the room, I had comfortable chairs. I literally recreated what I had in the corporate world, in my company, in my office. And I've done that because I realized over time, and I've done that because I realize over time, the silence, the serenity is the thing that gives me the best creative edge and allows me to outperform and outcreate anybody. And I just know that. And that's a little bit arrogant, but the truth is I'm not afraid of competition because I'm better than they are. And I'm better than they are because I've studied the craft, I live the craft, I breathe and sleep the craft, and it's not work to me.

Dr. William Attaway: 21:55

You have the mind of a perpetual student. I do, and every time I've heard you talk student, I do, and every time I've heard you talk, it comes through so loud and clear. You are constantly learning, watching, listening and growing. Has that always been the case, or was there a moment where you learned the value of that mindset?

Ken Moskowitz: 22:17

You know, honestly, it wasn't always the case. First of all, like, I think, many entrepreneurs, I was a terrible student. I hated school. I was not open to learning when I was a kid. In fact, I'm also cursed with something I have a photographic memory. So school was very boring for me because I only needed to be taught something once to retain it. And you know, my my family recognized it.

Ken Moskowitz: 22:50

You know when? When we would go someplace and back then there were no Google maps and we would use a map to get there. But the next time we went there I'm like I don't need the map, I can tell you how to get there. Well, how do you know? We were only there once, because I have a photographic memory. I didn't know at the time, that's what it was. I just knew that I could remember everything details. So school was a challenge for me. Because of that, I was bored, so I acted out and I didn't recognize the value of education. But over time I did, and the over time it was, I realized that if I liked something, I would dive deep into it.

Ken Moskowitz: 23:34

And so the education was always about stuff that fascinated me, that interested me, that, that fed my brain. It's why, like, like my wife and I, we don't ever watch tv together ever because the stuff that she likes and the stuff that I like are vastly different. Like I, I have been watching this nova series on planets and climates and planets. Why? Because it's interesting to me and it and it expands my knowledge of just stuff in the world or stuff in the universe. I have a very inquisitive mind, but it's only for the things that I'm interested in. If you tried to teach me about auto repair, I would be like that's the end of me. I just don't care. And I think that if you look at the way schools are structured in the US, I think schools really need an overhaul, because we teach our kids things today. Well, we've taught them since I was a kid. Well, we've taught them since I was a kid.

Ken Moskowitz: 24:45

Rote memorization is kind of useless. Now we don't need rote memorization. We need practical living skills and we need practical um ability to make critical decisions, and rote memorization is kind of useless. I can go to perplexity. I can go to google. There are tools now I don't need to know the names of all of Columbus's boats, although I know they were the Nina, the Pinto, the Santa Maria, because it was drilled into my head. That's right. Right, I don't need to know the name of Columbus's boats. By the way, they just found out he was an Italian Jew. That's a game changer.

Ken Moskowitz: 25:20

Hey, I didn't know that because I I follow things and learn things um so I I want to know how he dealt with the whole salami and jenna, because that's not kosher, um, but you know, neither was the classic pizza from pedro that said this is true, this is true anyway, um, but rote memorization I don.

Ken Moskowitz: 25:43

I don't think is a valuable tool anymore, and I think teaching kids stuff that has value in life is far more important. Now, I'm not here to fix the education system. I'm here to talk about what we do in the advertising world and you know my world but I think that kids will learn more when you give them stuff that's interesting to learn.

Dr. William Attaway: 26:07

I think different kids are wired differently. They bend different ways. Of course, we homeschooled both of our daughters, right. My older one graduates college in about six months from now, as we record this, and one of the things that we were able to do with both of them is craft their educational experience around how they are wired around, how they're bent. My older one is more wired with words.

Dr. William Attaway: 26:31

You know, if you're familiar with the PBS cartoon word girl, she's word girl, you know she was always vocabulary, was always just just like she eats dictionaries, like you know, like what on earth she wants to go into? Publishing and editing. This is what she eats dictionaries Like what on earth she wants to go into publishing and editing. This is what she wants to do. Right, that's where she and we were able to craft an educational experience around that. But, like you say, going into a public education system, that would be much more difficult because everything has to be wrote, it has to be according to a certain template. I think what you're describing for your bend is when you found something that really lit your fire, you dove deep and you became world class at it.

Ken Moskowitz: 27:13

Yeah, yeah, I mean it's. It's why I studied, you know, when I was a kid, so I had to go to the Jamaica library in Jamaica Queens, because if I wanted to read anything, you went to the library. Sure, we didn't have Google, we didn't have books, audio book we had books. We didn't have audio books. And books were expensive yes, they were, and I studied advertising and David Ogilvie.

Ken Moskowitz: 27:39

And I read like I was reading advertising periodicals when I was a kid Weird, I'm just weird, but it was the thing. That, like that, was my jam. And so I remember my English teacher, so Harriet Prado. I wrote a blog about her a few years ago and she is retired now lives in Arizona. I still have to go see her. She was the only teacher that saw the creativity in me and encouraged it, and she was an English teacher, and so she always encouraged my creative writing, my storytelling, my. The thing that other teachers hated about me, my creativity, was the thing she embraced.

Dr. William Attaway: 28:26

And so Harriet Prado is directly responsible for a portion of who I am today and there again we go into no wasted experience and the impact you can make on any life if you choose to do so, the impact she made on you. The ripples have continued. I love that Again. As you think about your journey and you think about as you have grown and developed, not just as a marketer and a creative, but leading the people that you work with, leading your team, you know they need you to lead at a different level today than they did five years ago, and five years from now they're going to need you to lead at an even higher level. How do you continue to develop the skills that your business and your team are going to need you to have?

Ken Moskowitz: 29:22

So let me start with a real, clear fact I am an awful leader, I'm a terrible leader, and the reason I'm a terrible leader isn't because I don't love people. I love people, in fact. I struggled for a year. I had to fire somebody a few years ago. I struggled for a year with that decision.

Dr. William Attaway: 29:41

And it was an email.

Ken Moskowitz: 29:43

It was an email between and I'll, gary. I don't know how Gary Vee comes back into this again. I sent Gary an email on a Saturday morning and I'm like I have to fire this person, gary, and I've been struggling with it and five minutes later I got an email back from him empathy, kindness and a really good severance package and I'm like, yeah, but it's still painful. I'm not a good people leader, and the reason I'm not a good people leader is because my head is in the clouds of creative and I don't like the managing of people because I hated being managed Right. So what I do is I work with adults who manage themselves and manage themselves well and they're trusted to manage themselves well, and the number of times that we have issues, I can count on one hand, because people are adults and if you give people the space and the latitude to do what they do best, you don't need to manage them.

Ken Moskowitz: 30:46

I have one member of my team, katie, and if Katie hears this, she'll know that I'm sharing the love. She will CC me on an important client email, not because she wants me to respond. She just wants to keep me in the loop, not because she wants me to respond. She just wants to keep me in the loop and if she needs me for anything, she'll Marco Polo me and say hey, I CC'd you on that email. Here's why.

Ken Moskowitz: 31:16

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah and that's it. And so, at the end of the day, when you hire adults and you give them the autonomy to do what they were hired to do and do their job, and you respect them and you love them and you treat them well and you take them out for lunches and you appreciate them and you listen to their stories and their hardships, and you're there, you know. And we have another member and I won't bring her name up because of some privacy stuff but she was going through some really tough stuff with one of her kids and that that was a challenging time. And then, right after that, she got sick and had to deal with challenge on top of challenge.

Ken Moskowitz: 32:00

And so you have to be able to take off the boss hat and put on just the human hat and go. Hey, if this were me, how would I want to be treated? How would I want this situation dealt with? Look at I really look at what I went through from May of 2023 until April of 2024, as a prime example of how that turns 360 degrees, or 180 degrees, back towards me.

Ken Moskowitz: 32:35

I got diagnosed with stage three rectal cancer and I was offline for a year. When I say offline for a year, william, I didn't work. I didn't work. I wasn't really answering emails. I wasn't involved in the day-to-day of business. I was surgery chemotherapy, radiation, two more surgeries. That was a year of my life, but nobody needed to be micromanaged. Everybody did their jobs, everybody got paid, the business survived, I survived, and it'm a control freak. I am a total control freak, but I also recognize that you can't control people. You have to just let them do what they do naturally. And so if you hire creatives to do a creative job, let them create, and if you hire accounting people to do accounting stuff, let them account. Right. You've got to put people in their seats, let them do what they do in those seats and trust that, through the end of the day, they're doing the best job, because people want to do a good job, naturally.

Dr. William Attaway: 34:05

Yeah, and I'm going to contradict you there. You say you're not a great leader and I just want to call out what you just described is one of the best models of leadership I've heard in all the conversations I've had a great leader, william.

Ken Moskowitz: 34:21

I appreciate it, that's right.

Dr. William Attaway: 34:25

I mean because you fast you're leading with the other person in mind, you're leading thinking about them, and and I think that's great leadership Leadership is not about you. Leadership is about the people that you serve, the people that you get to lead. That's that's leadership, that's real leadership, and that's what I just heard. So I just want to, I just want to call that out, and I think I think that is that is a model that a whole lot of people can learn from and understand that when you, when you see people not just as cogs in the machine of your business, but when you see them as actual 3d human beings, and you begin to treat them that way and talk to them that way and care for them as a human, I think you lead at a different level.

Intro/Outro: 35:11

Hmm.

Dr. William Attaway: 35:12

Okay, well, thank you for that. Yeah, absolutely, as you continue to learn and grow, you know you are always in that mode now and I'm curious is there a book that has made a big difference in your journey that you would recommend, if the leaders who are listening haven't read it? You got to check this one out.

Ken Moskowitz: 35:30

So it's not necessarily about leadership, it's it's. It's it's about the basic principles of marketing, and so my book that I wrote and this is not about my book this is the foundational book that inspired my book. Um, my book that I wrote was based off of Gary Vaynerchuk's jab jab, jab, right hook, which is give, give, give, ask, and which is really the basis of how I operate today. When I see a bad ad, I make a new one, I send it to the company, I do a quick introduction, like you don't know me from a hole in the wall, but I saw this and it was driving me nuts, so I fixed it. Feel free to use it and if you have any questions, here's how you get in touch with me. That's it. Like that's how I continue to build business.

Ken Moskowitz: 36:24

Is I give, give, give, then I ask, and so Gary V's Jab Jab, jab Right Hook is the number one book for me. The second book is his follow-up to that. So chap, chap, chap right hook is on loner right now to a friend of mine. I am now the library and, um and this is the other one day trading attention, um, if you, and this book gives you the practical, everyday how to do the things to grow and to market and to expand your market share. This book, those two books are, to me, two of the most powerful books when it comes to marketing. Wow, I think they should be required reading for anyone who's going into the branding, advertising or marketing space.

Dr. William Attaway: 37:21

Brilliant. We will have links to those in the show notes, as well as yours.

Ken Moskowitz: 37:26

Awesome, thank you.

Dr. William Attaway: 37:29

Again, I swear I could talk to you for another hour. Like so many joy our conversation.

Ken Moskowitz: 37:34

I know where to get it. That's right, he'll be late, so we enjoy our conversation.

Dr. William Attaway: 37:36

I know where to get it. That's right, he'll be late, but he'll be there.

Ken Moskowitz: 37:40

He'll be late, he'll be soggy and it will taste nothing like a New York pizza.

Intro/Outro: 37:46

That's true.

Dr. William Attaway: 37:47

But it's in Dallas, so it's okay.

Ken Moskowitz: 37:49

Right, well, that explains why it tastes nothing like a New York pizza.

Dr. William Attaway: 37:54

That's right it has a little 20 to it. Man, I just I want to thank you for your generosity today and in sharing from your story and sharing from what your experiences have been so far, and sharing some of the insights that you've gained along the way in in your leadership journey, in your creative journey, and being so generous with that. I just, I so appreciate that Thank you.

Ken Moskowitz: 38:17

I know I'm happy to do it and I'm really grateful to have the opportunity. I mean, we've had conversations several times and never have gone like down into this space, which I love. I just I want to leave with something to encourage people and that is this when you have a creative thought, it doesn't matter what that thought is. It can be dark, it can be dirty, it can be raunchy, it doesn't matter. Don't judge the thought you have. Write it down, because that thought may be the foundation of the most brilliant thing you've ever created, may be the foundation of the most brilliant thing you've ever created. And so often people judge the thoughts they have because they have a moral thing like oh, I shouldn't think that that's horrible of me, right? Don't judge your thoughts, just write them down. And then at some point you might revisit that thought and go that was really dark. But boy, this could be really funny off of that, or this could be a great take on something. Don't judge your thoughts.

Dr. William Attaway: 39:24

Profound and incredibly practical. Thank you, Ken. I know folks are going to want to stay connected to you and continue to learn more about what you do. What's the best way for them to do that?

Ken Moskowitz: 39:36

You know what? Just email me and my easiest email to remember is ken at adzombiescom, that's A-D-Z-O-M-B-I-E-Scom. I will answer your email. I've got 13 other email addresses, but that's the shortest one, so that's the one that's easy. Or you can just find me on social, it's easy. Thank you, ken. Thank you.

Dr. William Attaway: 39:59

I appreciate you. Thanks for joining me for this episode today. As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode, and if you find value here, I'd love it if you would rate it and review it. That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast. Second, if you don't have a copy of my newest book, catalytic Leadership, I'd love to put a copy in your hands. If you go to catalyticleadershipbookcom, you can get a copy for free. Just pay the shipping so I can get it to you and we'll get one right out.

Dr. William Attaway: 40:38

My goal is to put this into the hands of as many leaders as possible. This book captures principles that I've learned in 20 plus years of coaching leaders in the entrepreneurial space, in business, government, nonprofits, education and the local church. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about. And if you're ready to take a next step with a coach to help you intentionally grow and thrive as a leader, I'd be honored to help you. Just go to catalyticleadershipnet to book a call with me. Stay tuned for our next episode next week. Until then, as always, leaders choose to be catalytic.

Intro/Outro: 41:20

Thanks for listening to Catalytic Leadership with Dr William Attaway. Be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss the next episode. Want more? Go to catalyticleadershipnet.