How To Overcome Young Leadership Challenges With Luke Magnetti

Leadership isn’t always glamorous, and for young leaders like Luke Magnetti, it’s a journey packed with self-doubt, hard lessons, and relentless growth. In this episode, I sit down with Luke, a 19-year-old entrepreneur who brings a refreshing honesty to the reality of starting and leading a business. Together, we unpack the real challenges young leaders face, from managing imposter syndrome and finding confidence in unfamiliar rooms to balancing visionary ideas with hands-on execution. 

Luke’s role in his mom’s successful dog grooming business, where he plays the “hole puncher” by testing and refining ideas, provides him with a unique perspective on leadership. Now, as he launches his own SaaS company, Luke is navigating the messiness of entrepreneurship with a commitment to humility and growth. Tune in to hear Luke’s story, his commitment to lifelong learning, and his practical takeaways for young leaders striving to make their mark. This episode is a must-listen for anyone grappling with the realities of young leadership and the journey of personal growth.


Connect with Luke Magnetti:
 
If you’re inspired by Luke’s journey and want to follow his authentic take on the entrepreneurial ups and downs, head over to lukemagnetti.com. Connect with him for insights on business, personal growth, and the reality of building something impactful from the ground up.


Books Mentioned:

• Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink

Join the New Catalytic Leadership Community

Check out our new online membership site, with new resources by Dr. William Attaway and his team added weekly: https://checkout.catalyticleadership.net/

Chapters

• 0:00 Meet Luke Magnetti
• 3:09 The Role of a ‘Hole Puncher’
• 7:07 Balancing Humility and Leadership
• 10:49 Facing Imposter Syndrome
• 15:17 Building a SaaS Company
• 22:29 Embracing Leadership Challenges
• 27:56 Staying Teachable

Transcript

Dr. William Attaway: 0:00

I am so excited today to have Luke Magnetti on the podcast. Luke's a 19-year-old entrepreneur and marketer who has worked on and led various marketing projects. He's helped in multiple ways with his mom's dog grooming business what the Floof, as it has seen drastic growth over the past few years. Luke's currently developing his own SaaS company tailored for the dog grooming industry. Luke's currently developing his own SaaS company tailored for the dog grooming industry. He also hosts a podcast, the Magnetic Effect, where he and guests share insights on business, life and personal growth Beyond entrepreneurship. Luke is a Christian, a traveler and a lifelong learner committed to self-improvement every day. Luke, I'm thrilled you're here. Thanks so much for being on the show.

Luke Magnetti: 0:44

No problem. Thank you so much for inviting me on and having me on.

Intro/Outro: 0:49

Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed to help leaders intentionally grow and thrive. Here is your host author and leadership and executive coach, dr William Attaway coach, Dr William Attaway.

Dr. William Attaway: 1:10

I'd love to start, Luke, with you sharing a little bit of your story with our listeners, particularly around your journey and your development as a leader.

Luke Magnetti: 1:14

Yeah, 100%. So, you know, I grew up in a, you know, entrepreneurial household. My mom has owned a business since she's 20, 20, 20, 25, around that age, I don't know specifically, but you know my whole life. I grew up with that and as I matured, it was, you know, the more and more I matured and got older, the more and more I got involved within what was happening within the business, within conversations, within work, within those things. And so I got to see, from a very young age I guess, leadership and how she's doing it, how she's being successful with it, and, as well, to develop my own style of leadership and to grow into specific roles.

Luke Magnetti: 1:58

So I've always been a natural leader as well for myself. Maybe I got that from her, but I've loved just every part of it. I love dealing with people. I loved leading people, encouraging them, making sure that everybody feels heard, seen that they're impacting, whatever the project or whatever the business is, and I've done that in multiple different ways through books, through. One of my favorite ways is just implementation, honestly, um, so implementing, getting inside of businesses and, um, hearing stories. And so now I have a lot to learn. I'm still in, you know, the very early stages of my entrepreneurship career and definitely my leadership career, and I know that there's a lot of uh mistakes that are going to happen that hopefully I'll learn from, but I feel like I've developed a really good foundation so far.

Dr. William Attaway: 2:52

I love that, and I think talking to somebody of your age is going to be incredibly inspiring and encouraging for a lot of the folks listening, who may be your age or a little bit older, or they may be significantly older, and yet I believe you can learn from anybody, and I think your perspective today is going to be incredibly helpful. Here's what I want to dive into. I want to talk about some of the stuff that you've done, first with your mom's business ventures. Right, you described yourself as having the perspective of a hole puncher. I would love for you to talk a little bit about what that means puncher.

Luke Magnetti: 3:26

I would love for you to talk a little bit about what that means. Yeah, 100%. So the way that I describe that as a hole puncher is I am, you know how. You have some people in some businesses that are almost removed from the emotional factor, or it's almost like a marketing agency, where it's like you have somebody running the ads that is removed from the emotional side of the business so that they can make more logical decisions.

Luke Magnetti: 3:47

I feel like, in some ways, I'm kind of like that for her, even though we're still, you know, she's my mom, even though I'm kind of like, I guess, emotionally attached to her in that ways, I'm not necessarily emotionally attached to the business. And so she has an idea. She goes hey, I have this situation I'm dealing with. She'll always, you know, bring it to me for my learning purposes, and also she just likes to share with me and get my thoughts on that, and so I'm always the one where I'm like, okay, awesome, I love this, but here are the things that I see that could potentially happen, that could go wrong, that could go well, and so I think that that helps her especially limit the areas of where things could go wrong of like, hey, I'm dealing with this situation.

Luke Magnetti: 4:34

Maybe it's a leadership problem, maybe it's just a systems problem.

Luke Magnetti: 4:38

How can we fix this?

Luke Magnetti: 4:40

Or here's an idea that I have to fix this what are some of the holes that you see that people or things may go wrong in? And so just being able to point those out and being like, hey, maybe you should pay attention to this area, or make sure that this person knows this information, or set up these meetings so that everybody is on the same page, I think that goes a long, long way. Just because, as visionaries I've seen it I'm as well kind of a visionary it's so easy to just get super caught up within the idea that it's harder to think of every single aspect of the things that can go wrong, of the things that can go right. A lot of people as well may be super, super positive and they can only see the things that can go right, um, especially when it's our own ideas and so, um, so yeah, that's um, kind of a little bit of that role of just an explanation, of kind of the whole puncher and poking holes within the ideas so that they become a little bit more solid.

Dr. William Attaway: 5:45

You know I can imagine that you know having a more detached a hole puncher perspective is always welcomed. It's always valued and people love it when you start poking holes right.

Luke Magnetti: 5:56

Yes and no. I mean, there's a lot of times where you know, our relationship is very, I guess we'll say, my mindset, my personality is very much. Here's what. I'll tell you what I think I could be completely wrong. I don't want to claim that I know better than her or claim that I know better than anybody, because I don't really know.

Luke Magnetti: 6:23

At the end of the day, I'm a young kid and I make mistakes and everybody makes mistakes, but especially at this age, just from lack of experience, and so there's a lot of times where it's very good, where it's like okay, yeah, I see that perspective, or I see this perspective. There are disagreements sometimes where I'm like I think this is going to happen, she thinks that's going to happen, but at the end of the day, like it becomes this thing where it's a mutual disagreement and you know she moves forward and if it works, awesome. If it doesn't, then it's almost like all right, not like I told you, so I'm not going to be like that, but also at the same time, like we'll fix it, you know.

Dr. William Attaway: 7:05

You know that humility of not just trying to force your own way, of not just being so certain that this has to be, and if you don't do this then you're wrong the humility that you approach that with, I think, is incredibly valuable. Has that always been the case?

Luke Magnetti: 7:20

I think it depends on the situation. I think that as I grow more older, that's just who I want to become. It aligns with my values. I think sometimes I can be very stern or very what's the word, I forget the word for it but very stubborn in a way, very stubborn in a way. Sometimes if there's things where I have an opinion on, then my natural instinct is to kind of run with that and to just take that.

Luke Magnetti: 7:52

But I've learned more and more as I grow up, just to be more humble. And one of the things that I've learned as well within leadership is that there's so many different ways to do something, so there's not just one way to get something done or there's not just one way to do something right. So you know, there's not just one way to get something done or there's not just one way to do something right, and so obviously I'm going to think what I think is right and somebody else is going to think what they think is right. At the end of the day, you know, they might both just be right.

Luke Magnetti: 8:19

And you know, one of my favorite people to kind of teach on leadership is Jocko Willink, and we can talk about kind of his book and how that's impacted me a little bit. But he's super involved in just like even if a plan isn't at 100%, if it's that person's plan, let them run with it. Don't start touching it, don't start tweaking it, because you know, once you start going in there and you start letting your ego get involved, you might be able to improve it, but then that implementation is going to go down and as well, you might be wrong as well, and so, um, I think, just coming at situations with humility, being humble, realizing like, hey, this is all just a calculated guess at the end of the day and we're going to work as a team to solve whatever problem we need to solve.

Dr. William Attaway: 9:10

I think one of two things is often the case when it comes to young leaders. There's either a very strong certainty that I'm right, because we haven't learned the value of humility, or there is an overwhelming sense of uncertainty because I'm not old enough, I don't have the education, I don't have the experience, and I think either one of those can be a trap that anybody can fall into. Have you struggled with the latter? Have you struggled with feeling like gosh, should I be in this room? Should I be in this conversation? I mean, as you step into the SaaS company, especially like you're stepping into a whole different ballgame, do you ever wonder like, wow, am I out of place?

Luke Magnetti: 9:58

Every single day, yeah, every single day. Um, yeah, every single day. And you know I'm I'm getting better at realizing that for some people I think for a majority of people it's, you know, a struggle of kind of like, even if you are a quote, unquote confident person. Um, it's just struggles that everybody has. And so I I've learned to deal with them and to accept them and to kind of embrace them. But, yes, every single day, and I've been in events and rooms, I've talked to people, I've even involved with things, with my mom's business, where I feel like what the heck am I doing here? What's this person going to think about me saying this, or what's this person going to think of me saying this or something like that.

Luke Magnetti: 10:42

But I've learned of like when I actually put myself in those situations. It's almost like the spotlight of spotlight effect, where you think everybody's thinking about you and you think everybody thinks that you shouldn't be there, when everybody else is probably feeling almost the same exact thing. And so I think that when other people in the room kind of encourage you and give you encouragement and kind of prove to you that you maybe do belong in that room, then that helps a ton. But I think that you just need to learn how to deal with those things sometimes and learn that you know. Sometimes you're not going to feel like you know where you're going.

Luke Magnetti: 11:23

Sometimes you're going to feel like you don't belong in a room, but it's completely normal, you know, and at the end of the day, if you're alive and you're healthy and you're all good, then you know there'll be another day tomorrow to continue to move forward. And as well like to add on to this as well sometimes I think there are rooms or conversations that maybe I shouldn't have been in, maybe I wasn't supposed to be in them, but it's all learning experience. Even if I'm someplace where maybe I'm not to the level that I should be to be there, just by me being there I'm going to grow and it's going to help accelerate that growth. And so, even if you feel uncomfortable, even if maybe you think that it's embarrassing or something I don't know, there's a ton of emotion, just try to get as far forward as you can and don't let those feelings dictate too much of the decision process and how you lead feelings dictate too much of the decision process and how you lead.

Dr. William Attaway: 12:28

I love that perspective. You know, you and I met at the Commitment Summit down in Mexico earlier this year a conference and as I was talking with you I was really impressed because that's the perspective I caught from you in our conversation and I thought, wow, that is such a healthy place to be. You know, it's not this overconfidence or arrogance, of course I belong here and it's not this oh, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't know why I'm here, I don't have a place here. It's, it's a comfortable humility and that that is really strong in you and I just want to, I just want to call that out and encourage you in that, because in our conversations that's one thing I have really admired and I think that is only something that's going to grow in the years to come.

Luke Magnetti: 13:12

Thank you, I really appreciate that and yeah, I mean, I think it's just that mindset of like, exactly like you said, of like honestly. There's a lot of times where I may feel one way, but the reality is a different way, and I think I've been in those situations enough where I'm like, okay, I can't really like. I'm just going to give this a good positive mindset and I'm going to try to learn and grow as much as I possibly can out of this and I'm not going to focus too much on am I supposed to be here? Am I, you know, I guess, am I a good enough leader to be here, or am I a good enough entrepreneur, or am I just good enough in general to be here? I feel like that is a very bad trap that you can really get yourself in and it is very negative towards your growth.

Dr. William Attaway: 13:57

So 100%. And the reality is that, if we're honest, every entrepreneur faces uncertainty, every one of us. We all deal with this at some point at some level. And it's not like we vanquish it and once and for all. We never see it again, because as we approach new levels, we find new challenges, and that creates more uncertainty. As we look into the future, we can't quite see exactly how this is going to play out, and learning how to be resilient in the midst of the uncertainty, how to continue to press forward, is the work of a lifetime.

Dr. William Attaway: 14:32

And I've not yet met the entrepreneur. In almost 30 years of working with leaders, I've not yet met the entrepreneur that says, yeah, I don't really deal with that ever anymore. You know, it's just a. It's something that we all have to learn to deal with and push through those limitations, push through that uncertainty. You bring an external perspective with your mom's business we talked about this the the, the more detached. The outside perspective, the hole puncher, you know you're able to bring that and provide that feedback to what she's doing to her business. When it comes to this new SaaS business that you're launching, right, you're now in the visionary role. This is going to be your baby. What? What are some things that you are learning as you are preparing to execute and launch this vision?

Luke Magnetti: 15:22

Yeah, a lot and every single day, every single time I talk to somebody, they're like hey, what's new? I'm like a ton, because you know there's a lot that you're learning a lot. That is just completely new, you know, and it's not even. I think it's a little bit of skill growing, but it's also a lot of just differentiating your habits and creating new habits and kind of creating new thought processes. And so, especially when you're in, you know for me, creating new habits and kind of creating new thought processes. And so, especially when you're in, you know, for me currently in the startup kind of phase of the SaaS, I have to serve a little bit as everybody. I don't necessarily have the support of employees or a COO or CEO or whatever role that I would want to be in. I kind of have to be a little bit of everybody, and so that takes a little bit of a learning curve, because now you don't have the, I guess, the luxury to push roles or push projects that you don't necessarily want to do to somebody else. You kind of have to take that all on.

Luke Magnetti: 17:53

And actually Ryan Dice said something.

Luke Magnetti: 17:56

I saw something that he said the other day that was super, super powerful and hit me because he was like a lot of people get into entrepreneurship or get into leadership roles because they don't want to do specific things and at the end of the day, you can get to a certain point where most of the work that you do is enjoyable and things that you enjoy, but it's just not reality to expect that you're never going to have to do anything that you don't like to do.

Luke Magnetti: 18:22

He's like if I, you know, when my kid was born, I told my wife I don't really like changing diapers. I think that's kind of like your role. It's like I would get smacked and I was like, wow, like it's, it's so obvious. But also, at the same time, I was like that is so true and I kind of need to embrace that a little bit more and just not be in this stubborn role of being like, oh, I'm just a visionary or I'm just like, oh, I just do this part, but being like, okay, I'm either going to be a little bit of everything and grow this thing or I'm going to be stuck here. You know.

Dr. William Attaway: 18:58

I think that's incredibly wise. One of the things that I often say when I'm coaching teams or leaders is that if you're able to spend about 75% or 80% of your time in your zone of genius, that's a massive win. Nobody spends 100% in, Nobody spends a hundred. You're going to have that other 20, 25%. You just are. It's part of it, particularly if you're the owner right. There's stuff that only you can do. There's perspectives and landscapes that only you can see.

Luke Magnetti: 19:32

Nobody can do that for you, and I think that's incredibly wise, particularly this early in your journey 100%, and I think you know I'd be interested to know what you think about this a little bit but I think that social media has kind of portrayed this image of entrepreneurship being more sexy than it is, yeah, or leadership for more sexy than it is.

Luke Magnetti: 19:54

And the reality is is that, you know, there's just a lot of things that go wrong or a lot of things that happen, and as the leader, as the COO, as the CEO, whatever your role may be, sometimes you have to, you know, fix those things and take them, take ownership of them and get them done. You know, and that's just the reality of business. Honestly, it's the reality of life, the reality of business. Honestly, it's the reality of life, um, but it's a lot harder to, from my experience, be your own boss and tell yourself what you have to do instead of telling, instead of somebody else telling you what you have to do. You know there's that lack of, I guess, um, accountability, you know, cause you're fine letting yourself down sometimes, even though it's like the most important thing to not let yourself down.

Dr. William Attaway: 20:42

Yeah, I agree, I think you're the hardest person you'll ever lead, and I think that's true no matter where you are in the journey. And for business owners, they're like, ah, I don't have a boss. Finally, nobody tell me what to do. Well, the reality is you've got to manage and lead yourself, and that's way harder than leading other people, because most of us talk to ourselves like we would never talk to someone else. Our self-talk is unhealthy. It is littered with negative perspectives, with negative outlooks, and unless we're careful of that and the soundtrack that we're building, like John Acuff writes about, unless we're careful there and mindful of that, we will find ourselves and our leadership littered with broken soundtracks. We will find our leadership, not only of other people, but also of ourselves, affected in a very powerfully negative way 100%.

Dr. William Attaway: 21:33

I think one of the pieces you said too is how leadership is often portrayed, particularly on social media. We see highlight reels. We see other people's highlight reels and that's great and everybody's got the highlight reels of what's going right. The reality is, leadership is not always just a highlight reel. Most often, I find leadership is moving toward the messes. That's what leaders have to do, because other people aren't going to do that we move toward the mess. We don't run away, we move toward the fire and our job is to solve the problem and to get on the solution side. And, like you say, that's not always sexy, it's not always fun, it's not always enjoyable, but I believe that's part of what being a leader means.

Luke Magnetti: 22:17

But I believe that's part of what being a leader means. Yeah, and there are. I've come across some people that do a good job at being vulnerable and putting out, I guess, real content of things that they're dealing with. But it's hard to put yourself out there and to say, oh, here's my failures. You know, and a lot of the times that's the stuff that goes viral. You know, like, the things that are the successes are the things that go viral. So I think it's just you know you don't see that as much, even if people are posting that. But I mean it's the reality.

Luke Magnetti: 22:46

When you know you have a mass exit of team members or um, you know you're running a small team and even just a couple people leave and it's like crap, that's 50, my company. You know, and now you have. You know holes to company. You know, and now you have. You know holes to fill. Or you know team members that um are being mean, or there's so many different opportunities that I think any leader could probably jump into and tell them and people would be like what the heck is wrong with people? Um, but that's just the reality.

Luke Magnetti: 23:14

But I think that there is an enjoyment factor for some people, for me. There's a part of me that does enjoy that chaos. Maybe not in the moment so much, but there's a part of me that really enjoys conquering a really bad situation and coming out the other side feeling like I did everything that I could have or everything was handled on our side the way that it should have been, and maybe the other person didn't handle it well, but I did, the company did. Whoever is making the decisions, they did everything that they could have done in a way that aligns with our values. I really find a lot of enjoyment within those things.

Dr. William Attaway: 24:01

I think there's there's wonder. It's a wonderful place to be. When you say I made the best decision I could with the information I had at the time, yeah, I think if you can say that, you can sleep well, you know the. The reality is you're not going to know all the different moving parts. You're not going to be able to foresee all the pieces that are moving around the board. You do the best you can with the information you have at the time and then you learn from it. You evaluate and you say, okay, what went right, what didn't, what would I do different next time? And as you process that learning, it's then available to you going forward. The next time you're in a similar situation.

Luke Magnetti: 24:45

I believe that's how leaders develop and grow and as they pass those learnings on to other people, it only cements those lessons in their own life. Yeah, and it's even, too, what you said just learning from it. I think that's so important, and not getting caught up because the reality is is that sometimes we make bad decisions, like every single leader, no matter 100% of us.

Luke Magnetti: 25:00

Yeah, it could be a brand new leader like me, or somebody that has run a business for 30, 40 years, like my mom. There's just going to be times where you mess up. But the most important thing I think from that, like you said, is just learning from it and not getting so wrapped up over it. I see a lot of people that get so wrapped up over it and it tears them down when it's like, okay, I should have done it differently, but I can't control that anymore. I'm going to learn it, I'm going to make it right and I'm not going to do that again. That's all you can do and I think that's probably the most powerful way that you can handle those situations. A hundred percent.

Dr. William Attaway: 25:36

So let me ask you, look, how do you stay on top of your game as a leader?

Luke Magnetti: 25:41

How do you level up with who you are as a person is going to reflect kind of who you are as a leader as well more that I mature, the more that I work on myself personally, the better I'm able to handle situations, the better I'm able to handle conflict or people that maybe aren't super kind or people that have objections or things like that. You don't crumble under pressure as easily and you're able to stay calm and kind of think clearly. So those are the things that you know would be the first things that I like to do, but as well, it's just. I think that talking to your team members, being super involved within I guess just things that are going on within the company is super valuable, and making sure that you don't get too kind of out of touch with how your team members are feeling and making sure that you know their voice is just as important as yours.

Luke Magnetti: 27:05

Even though you may be the leader, great from the outside, or even, like the executives, thinks that everything is great, but then everybody on the inside is like this is a mess, Like I don't work for this place or this is going on. Some people don't care, but I think at the end of the day, a lot of people, especially the people watching your show, probably want to create a team, an environment that people love to work in, a team and environment that people love to work in, and so I think that that is a great. A very big part of my growth is to just not get too far detached and to just make sure that I'm learning from the people within my team and making sure that they feel like I'm also leading this ship correctly.

Dr. William Attaway: 27:57

And I think that teachable spirit is what makes leaders truly catalytic. I really do. I think that's the differentiator when you realize you can learn not just from other people outside your organization but from your team. When you model that teachable spirit that becomes a part of your culture, your DNA and your business, and that's what takes you far in my experience. You know. You talked about books and different ways that you learn. Is there a book that has made a big difference in your journey so far that you would recommend everybody listen? Hey, if you haven't read this, check it out.

Luke Magnetti: 28:31

Yeah, there's quite a few. One that comes to my mind, for leadership specifically, is a book called Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willing. If you haven't read it out there, go and check it out. It was, honestly, one of the first leadership books that I've read, but it was incredible just because I think that, not only for personal growth but for leadership growth as well, it really it teaches you to take ownership over situations because at the end of the day, you are the leader and it goes through the different kind of scenarios of how to solve problems and how not to solve problems. But that was incredibly powerful and it helped me personally just in my life.

Luke Magnetti: 29:14

Stop pointing fingers at people and just realize, hey, like I'm in control of this company, I'm in control of this situation and I need to take ownership If something goes wrong, even if it may not be necessarily 100% my fault. Sometimes it's easier to just be like okay, I'll take ownership, we're going to fix this, you know? Um. So those books and, honestly, for personal growth, I'll always recommend um Viktor Frankl's books. I don't know if you've books and, honestly, for personal growth, I'll always recommend Viktor Frankl's books. I don't know if you've read Man's Search for Meeting and Saying yes to Life in Spite of Everything. Those have just been super, super influential in my life, and just the personal growth side.

Dr. William Attaway: 29:54

So good Look. This has been a fascinating conversation and I appreciate you sharing so generously and so transparently from your journey. I know folks are going to want to stay connected to you and continue to learn from you and more about what you're doing. What is the best way for them to do that?

Luke Magnetti: 30:11

they can go over to lukemagneticom and all my links will be there so they can check out my instagram, my facebook, my linkedin, all of the links. My youtube will be there so they can check out my Instagram, my Facebook, my LinkedIn, all of the links. My YouTube will also be up there in the podcast. Very, very soon, actually maybe around when this podcast launches. I'm going to be kind of starting a series of documenting my journey and trying to aim to show the ups and downs of what not a lot of people show and kind of just be real about just every single struggle that you know entrepreneurial go through and maybe that will help people out there. I hope it does, but we'll see. So you can go over there and check that out. I'll probably have that launched by then. And yeah, thank you so much for inviting me and having me on. I really hope that for anybody out there this was a value and thank you so much.

Dr. William Attaway: 31:01

Thanks for joining me for this episode today. As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode, and if you find value here, I'd love it if you would rate it and review it. That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast. Second, if you don't have a copy of my newest book, catalytic Leadership, I'd love to put a copy in your hands. If you go to catalyticleadershipbookcom, you can get a copy for free. Just pay the shipping so I can get it to you and we'll get one right out.

Dr. William Attaway: 31:37

My goal is to put this into the hands of as many leaders as possible. This book captures principles that I've learned in 20 plus years of coaching leaders in the entrepreneurial space, in business, government, nonprofits, education and the local church. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about. And if you're ready to take a next step with a coach to help you intentionally grow and thrive as a leader, I'd be honored to help you. Just go to catalyticleadershipnet to book a call with me. Stay tuned for our next episode next week. Until then, as always, leaders choose to be catalytic.