How To Cultivate Executive Presence And Build Team Trust With Tom Henschel

Building a meaningful connection with your team while achieving results can often feel like a balancing act. In this episode, I sit down with Tom Henschel, a seasoned executive coach, to explore the essentials of developing executive presence and the “look and sound” of leadership.

Tom shares his journey from professional acting to guiding leaders worldwide and reveals why being genuinely present is more impactful than “performing” for your team. We dive into why so many leaders struggle with balancing a results-driven focus alongside strong relationships, and Tom offers actionable insights on bridging that gap. You’ll hear powerful tips for managing communication in high-stakes situations, creating a culture of trust and accountability, and navigating your own growth with continuous feedback. Tom’s passion for helping leaders excel shines through every insight, making this conversation a valuable listen for any leader looking to elevate their presence and foster a more engaged, committed team.

Connect with Tom Henschel:

I invite you to connect with Tom Henschel and dive deeper into his leadership insights on his podcast, The Look and Sound of Leadership. His expertise in executive presence and practical strategies for impactful communication can truly transform your approach to leadership.

Books Mentioned:

•  Crucial Conversations by Joseph Grenny

Join the New Catalytic Leadership Community

Check out our new online membership site, with new resources by Dr. William Attaway and his team added weekly: https://checkout.catalyticleadership.net/

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Tom Henschel’s Leadership Journey
• 5:00 Building Executive Presence
• 10:00 Balancing Results and Relationships
• 15:00 Effective Communication in High-Stakes Moments
• 21:31 Fostering a Culture of Trust and Accountability
• 26:31 Continuous Growth and Feedback in Leadership
• 31:31 Recommended Reads for Leaders

Transcript

Dr. William Attaway: 0:00

It is an incredible honor today to have Tom Henschel on the podcast. Tom's first memory of teaching was lining up his toys and explaining the world to them. Since then, as an executive coach based in Los Angeles, he has coached leaders and teams around the world in companies large and small. He's known for helping disruptive executives be better team players and for helping rising stars achieve the look and sound of leadership. His podcast by that Name is one of the top five ranked podcasts in the management category in the US and has built a global following. He donates time to developing women early in their careers and also serves on the board of a small, independent school in Los Angeles that delivers education for democracy in a way that inspires him daily. Tom, I'm so glad you were here. Thank you for being on the show.

Tom Henschel: 0:57

And thank you for having me. I'm so glad to talk to you.

Dr. William Attaway: 1:00

You know we talked a little before the recording about what an impact your show has had on me, and if our listeners are not familiar with the look and the sound of leadership, I highly recommend you push pause, go, subscribe to that show right now because it is a tremendous value-added show that you produce every month.

Tom Henschel: 1:25

Thanks, I'm glad it's been helpful. I've been doing it for 16 years, william. It's old, I feel like a dinosaur, but it's been great, because people tell me that it's helpful in their careers, and that's my goal. I'm glad that people find value in it. Plus, by the way, I love doing it. It's kind of like my baby, so I love it.

Dr. William Attaway: 1:47

I can definitely resonate with that.

Intro/Outro: 1:51

Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed to help leaders intentionally grow and thrive. Here is your host. Author and leadership and executive coach, dr William Attaway. Author and leadership and executive coach, dr William.

Dr. William Attaway: 2:05

Attaway, I'd love to start our conversation with a little bit of your story, because your story doesn't start with the podcast. You know you have grown and developed as a leader into the executive coach and the business owner that you are, but where did all this get started?

Tom Henschel: 2:27

Oh my joke would be like well, I was born in a log cabin. But I think there's two threads that go through all of my story. One of it is around teaching and performance and one is about being of service. So the teaching and performance part is I always loved to teach. I started in the professional theater. I started in theater in high school. I taught junior high school. I mean, I had that teaching and performing thing all along. I went to the Juilliard School. I got trained as a professional actor.

Tom Henschel: 3:03

I worked as a professional actor into my 40s and I was out here in Hollywood working in television and it was just really clear to me that TV wasn't going to support me forever.

Tom Henschel: 3:14

It just wasn't, you know, um, which was heartbreaking for me. So I went through a real grieving for many years of like my childhood dream is not going to last my whole lifetime. It was really sad for me and I found this thing called corporate training. And then almost immediately, a person came to me and said I'm starting a coaching company and I'd like you to be one of my coaches. And I said sure, because I didn't know, and none of us knew, what coaching was in those days. Coaching kind of wasn't a thing in those days, and so I've been coaching for a long time and learned a ton and have a lot of tools and have talked to all kinds of people and it's been incredibly gratifying and I'm so glad I'm not acting anymore. That's fantastic. I had no idea that it was going to be better, but you know, and acting was fun, I got a lot out of it, but this is way better oh, my goodness.

Dr. William Attaway: 4:12

You know there's there's no such thing, I believe, as a wasted experience in your life. You know, everything that has happened has contributed to making you and I to the people that we are today and story. While it is not the one that you anticipated and it didn't have the same the twist and turn that you thought it would, it has produced the life that you have lived thus far.

Tom Henschel: 4:35

You're not done yet. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

Dr. William Attaway: 4:38

As you have grown your business, you know, and your practice, as you have grown the podcast. There's 16 years, by the way, which is that's just remarkable, particularly in podcast world. What are some of the things what are some of the things that stand out to you, that you have learned along the way?

Tom Henschel: 4:58

Wow, are we speaking specifically around leadership? Are we speaking about what? Are you know? Cause, man? I mean, I've learned all kinds of things. I've learned all kinds of things.

Dr. William Attaway: 5:09

You know that's true, Thinking leadership as a leader, but you can take this where you will.

Tom Henschel: 5:15

I think what I've learned and again I have to thank my mentors and teachers I think when I started my company I had a really good outward face. Look, I'd been a performer for over 20 years, right Making my living doing that. I knew how to show up, but I was not always assertive on my own behalf appropriately. I was not always clear in what I actually preferred. I didn't always know what I was good at, preferred. I didn't always know what I was good at. And I think what's happened to me over the years, thanks to my mentors, thanks to my teachers, is I've learned how to show up and be kind of just integrated in a way where it's not so effortful as it used to be. It used to be that I was working very hard in those rooms to be appropriate to say what I wanted to say, to be clear. My brain was working hard and now it's gotten easier and easier the longer I've been inside of it.

Dr. William Attaway: 6:14

That's fascinating, you know. I think that that is an experience that a whole lot of the leaders listening can resonate with. You know, at the beginning it is such a heavy lift to show up and bring the best version of yourself. It's so difficult To hear you talk about that like that, I think, is something that's really going to resonate, because it certainly does with me.

Tom Henschel: 6:38

Well, listen, I'm aware that one of the things that I work on with many of my clients is the big bucket of executive presence, the look and sound of leadership, and often that challenges a leader to create some new behavior. Stop talking sooner, that's hard. Talk shorter, that's hard. Be more clear, that's hard. Stop interrupting Woo, that's hard. You know what I mean. Stop interrupting Woo, that's hard. You know what I mean.

Tom Henschel: 7:07

But whatever the behaviors are that at a certain point we I'm really good at helping people change how they are experienced in the workplace by changing some behaviors, but think how distracting that is. Like I'm in this meeting and I'm actually. I have an agenda in my head, I've got an, I've got a point that I want to make, I have a I. I kind of have to move the team to a certain place and oh, by the way, I'm going to try and listen better. You know what I mean, because my coach told me I should do that. That's heavy lifting, that's really hard and it's distracting and it's a challenge. It's a challenge until that stuff becomes habitual and automatic. Challenge until that stuff becomes habitual and automatic. So in the middle, a lot of times I think leaders are stressed. I think it's hard work, all that you know mental heavy lifting.

Dr. William Attaway: 7:51

How do you help people navigate that? How do you help people to navigate that heavy lift in the moment when it's so easy to just slide into your default behavior?

Tom Henschel: 8:01

Yeah, well, one thing is incremental success. You know, gosh, I have this woman I'm working with, who I adore, and she always leads with the failure story and you know like, oh, I screwed this up and oh, I didn't say the right thing and oh man, this didn't go right. And hidden in that story inevitably are three or four small wins that were different than they were three or six or eight months ago. And I'm always kind of saying to her, hey, hey, what about those? And she's learned that those actually matter because they become cumulative. You can do two one week, but next week you can do three, which means that in six months you're going to be doing a lot. But it's incremental success and not assuming that you're going to be a light switch. I think that's really important for people when they are working on behavior.

Dr. William Attaway: 8:54

Often say that you get more of what you focus on. Now, try to challenge people to focus on their wins, because I don't know about you, I want more wins. So by focusing on those, I encourage people to write them down in a wins journal. So the thing, you have an external knowledge base. And when you do feel those moments of failure, those moments where you feel like you just swung and missed and you feel like, oh, this is how it's always going to be Right.

Dr. William Attaway: 9:22

Yeah, you can go to that knowledge base, say this is how I feel and that's valid, but what does the data say, and pull that out. Yes, I just think that's such a game changer for a lot of people I love that you do that with her.

Tom Henschel: 9:40

I think that's so good. Well, I believe in it. I also just want to say that your idea of journaling does something in the brain, which is, if I know that I'm going to write about it tonight, then I'm looking for it during the day, and so my right. It's what you said before about what you focus on is what gets attention. So if I know that I have to write one thing down at the end of the day, I'm more likely to do it. Oh, that's so good.

Dr. William Attaway: 10:12

And your show, like I say, 16 years. That is absolutely astounding, and each month you put out an episode that is a must-listen to for me. You have covered so many different topics around the look and the sound of leadership, this executive presence, the communication, the networking, so many practical things. What is the feedback that you get like on this show?

Tom Henschel: 10:40

I get a lot of gratitude from people. This is so helpful Just to help your listeners understand. The show's about 20 minutes long and it's kind of in two halves, and the first half is a story, as if you, the listener, are listening to a coaching session. It's almost 100% dialogue. There's almost no narration in it. And then the second part is me unpacking what you heard and giving some tools. I think people are grateful for the story because it's sticky, and I think they're grateful for the tools because they're applicable. You know you can actually use them, and so people find it both kind of entertaining, it's easy to go down and it's helpful. So that's the feedback that I get.

Dr. William Attaway: 11:26

I would definitely resonate with that as I think about different episodes that have impacted me. I think your conversations around networking has been incredibly powerful from my perspective, because that is something that I've had to learn how to do it is not something that is naturally intuitive and so many practical things in those episodes that hit me in a place that I said, okay, that's, I can take a step here, there's a next step. So thank you for that.

Tom Henschel: 12:04

Well and listen. If that's what it does for you or any listener, that I go. That's the win. Right? That's what I'm hoping is exactly that Is it. There's something, an idea you can take, apply it and be better tomorrow. That's fantastic.

Dr. William Attaway: 12:18

A lot of the people listening, Tom, are leaders in a lot of different contexts, from digital marketing agency owners to business owners of other kinds founders, entrepreneurs, senior executives and they're listening and here's an opportunity for you to speak into their lives. Listening and here's an opportunity for you to speak into their lives. If you could share one thing with them, or share a story, or share something that you just want to make sure they walk away with, what would you love to share?

Tom Henschel: 12:45

Well, I'll share an idea that I say in almost every coaching engagement that I have is I think if you're going to be seen as a really high, powered, effective leader, you need to do two things every day you need to pay attention to your results and you need to pay attention to your relationships, and I believe that all of us on the planet do some of both, but most people are not equally weighted. Most people favor one side over the other, right, the people that I tend to coach tend to be very high in results and lower in relationships, because I am high in relationships and lower in results, and so I've got a lot on that column to share and teach. I think, for your listeners to be aware of which side they're on and you don't listen. I'm a big believer in strengths. I think you should know your strengths, I think you should count on them, but you don't need to turn them up.

Tom Henschel: 13:49

If you want a really long career, if you want people to be devoted followers, you need to get more in balance. You need to bring more in balance. You need to bring up the lower side, and that is a challenge for people, whichever side you're working on. Right For me to get better at running my business and paying attention to results has been a long journey, william. It is and it ain't over, you know. So whichever side you're working on, that's where I think it would behoove you to pay attention If somebody is in that boat.

Dr. William Attaway: 14:23

Who's listening to this? And I'm confident quite a few are, for they focus on results and relationships, are like, oh yeah, that too, and that's the way they, that's the way they lean. What's it, what's that next step for them, what's what's one thing that they can do? Say, okay, I recognize this, this is, this is the reality as it is, but I want to grow.

Tom Henschel: 14:48

Okay, I have a challenge for people. I think, well, here's the challenge. I think, well, here's the challenge. I think, as a leader, it's important that you have clarity about what you need people to know and do what you need them to understand. It's really important that you, as a leader, be able to tell that to people and, consequently, as leaders especially leaders who take on that burden in a way that feels healthy, like putting on the clothes that are your work clothes. It feels good, it often makes us very focused on us as the communicator, and I think what often is the piece to add is that, number one, the person you're talking to is a person with a life and a family and hopes and dreams outside your workplace. They've got a whole backstory, they are a full, breathing, living person and and here's number two, I promise you, they are different from you.

Tom Henschel: 16:00

So what makes sense to you? Well, don't you understand this? You have to. I mean, who wouldn't think that? Right? I mean all those kinds of things that we think to ourselves, cause it's fricking obvious to us. It is not obvious to the other person and, by the way, probably won't be. After you tell it to them two or three times, it still will not be obvious to the other person and, by the way, probably won't be after you tell it to them two or three times, it still will not be obvious to them. And that's not your flaw or theirs. That's just people, because people are different and they hear differently and they have different values.

Tom Henschel: 16:24

So I want to say to people who are wanting to boost their relationship skills remember that people are people. You need to stop focusing on you and focus on them. How are they listening? How are they taking it in? What do they understand? What questions do they have? Their questions aren't a threat to you. The questions are the help. That's how you know how to help them. So let them ask their questions, don't run over them. And the second idea is they are different. They're going to understand it differently. They're going to hear it differently, are different, they're going to understand it differently.

Dr. William Attaway: 16:56

They're going to hear it differently. They're different from you, so powerful and so true when we look at other people and we see them as actual 3D human beings, not just as a cog in the machine of what we're building, not just for what they do, but for who they are. What a game changer.

Tom Henschel: 17:15

Yeah, right, yes, because it is easy, by the way, especially at work, especially for leaders who are busy. They're already working so hard, they've got so much on their mind. And I see you and I know who you are. You're the guy who was supposed to get me that report yesterday and I don't have it, and that's all I know. Right, and, by the way, that's all I actually really care about.

Tom Henschel: 17:38

And if I'm going to be a powerful leader and create devoted followers, I need to bring the other part of me into the room with you. I'm not saying excuse you, I'm not saying I don't hold you accountable, but I am saying that I recognize that something's at work with you, meaning something's working on you that made you miss that deadline. What is it? And I need to be curious about that, genuinely curious, not to punish you, not to set you up and push you in a trap, but to go like what? How do we make this better? Because William on my team is not functioning full throttle and that's not good for anybody. So let me see what I can do to help, as opposed to just be pissed because you're an obstacle in my way.

Dr. William Attaway: 19:54

You know, when I see a client who takes that step and begins to see and to treat their people, their team members, as valued individuals, as 3D human beings, in my experience those team members then begin to lean in and I know a lot of people listening are thinking, oh yeah, but I got to focus on the bottom line. I mean I got to focus on the results. If your team members lean in, that increases retention. And if you can increase retention on your team and you can increase retention with your clients because you have increased your ability on the relational side of the equation, that's going to impact your bottom line. You're going to see that reflected in a very positive way. And have you seen that same sort of response?

Tom Henschel: 20:48

Well, I'll tell you how I see it. You know, I tend to work in fairly large companies where teams are either happy or they're not, and teams that are not happy. There's all kinds of problems, all kinds of problems and teams. I mean, I'm in the middle of one right now. I am coaching the leader of a team. The company's got probably 50,000 employees and they're doing this company-wide thing. That's happening. That's never happened before. It's intense, intense and people love working for this guy and he's leading the change. And I keep looking going. Aren't people freaked out here? Aren't people like behaving badly? I mean that's what I would expect and they're not, and uh, so you know, I see something like that and I go I want to learn from this guy right, because I mean it, but really like think what he's accomplishing. It's fantastic. So I get to witness teams that are healthy and teams that are not.

Dr. William Attaway: 21:48

As you think about the teams that are healthy and the teams that are not like are there common threads, like for the leaders who are listening, if they're trying to build a team culture, if they're trying to build a team that's healthy, a team that runs at a healthy and sustainable pace. I often say are there threads that you see that they need to be mindful of and give some attention to?

Tom Henschel: 22:11

Yes, what comes to mind is the beginning of the pyramid in the five behaviors of. It's funny I know it is the five behaviors of a cohesive team, but it's the book from Patrick Lencioni is the five behaviors of a dysfunction, the five dysfunctions of a team.

Tom Henschel: 22:33

Right, it starts with trust, meaning really, really do I trust that you're going to do what you say you're going to do as the leader? Do I trust that you're going to be fair? Do I trust, do I trust you as a leader? I don't even have to, like, want to be at your house for dinner, but, right, I mean, you're going to have an impact on my life as a leader. Do I trust you?

Tom Henschel: 23:01

There needs to be an ability to have productive conflict, because the value of I mean, listen, we all talk about diversity in different ways, but why? I think one of the values of diversity on a team is you get different ideas, so things expand. And, by the way, I came from show business where there were certain sets where you could be on a set and contribute and it was so exciting. And there were certain sets where you could be on a set and contribute and it was so exciting. And there were certain sets where you did like, just do your job, shut up and do your job. You know what I mean. Shut up and do your job is never fun. And, by the way, some leaders create those teams. They show up in staff meetings and they don't contribute because they're not expected to. They're expected to be right. Take good notes, find out what you need to do and go out and do it right. So trust the ability to have conflict and then accountability.

Tom Henschel: 23:48

Man really, is everybody going to do what they say they're going to do? And if they don't, is it appropriate, whatever? The response is because we want to be a winning team and there's going to be fumbles. I mean, the fumbles aren't the problem, it's what comes after the fumble. That's the problem. So those are the three that I would start with.

Dr. William Attaway: 24:11

I love that you are leading your business, your company, your team at a higher level today than you did three or four or five years ago, and three or four or five years from now, they're going to need you to lead at a higher level still. So do you stay on top of your game? How do you level up with new leadership skills that your team, your business, your clients are going to need you to have so that you can help them do what they do better?

Tom Henschel: 24:44

I ask for a lot of feedback. So that's one, because my team knows what they need and I don't. So I ask for a lot of feedback and they've learned over the years that I mean it and they tell me, and it's been hugely helpful. That's one way I up my game. Another is that I continue to get more and more clear on my own priorities, and my priorities are not the same as they were five years ago, nor do I want them to be the same in five years from now. But so I'm always kind of like going what am, what am I really trying to accomplish here? What is this project really? How? You know what I'm trying to get as clear as I can cause. Then I can communicate it and everything goes better at that point, if I'm clear and and, by the way, it doesn't mean I have to have every answer, because I don't want to have every answer.

Tom Henschel: 25:32

but. But I have to be clear about, like, how wide is the road and what direction is the road going right, and are we under a tree canopy or are we out in the desert? Like I have to be clear on the landscape so that people can contribute. That's my job and so I continue to get better at that. It's easier, but, yeah, that's where I spend a lot of my time.

Dr. William Attaway: 25:57

I love that, and it's obvious that you are a continual learner and evaluator, always looking and asking the question how do we make this better, how do we do this better?

Tom Henschel: 26:08

Oh yeah, listen, one of my colleagues taught me like she said this question out loud and I just was like, oh, it was so great. She said that she was part of a team that has a workflow and when they get to the end of their second iteration, they all look at each other and the question is how might we be wrong? Oh what?

Dr. William Attaway: 26:31

a great question.

Tom Henschel: 26:32

Yeah, and it adds so much value and it's such a mind expander. And, by the way, for them, that team that's after two iterations they've done two full drafts before they asked that question. But my that idea of continual learning, listen, I look at my life. I mean I'm better at what I did than I was five years ago and I've been coaching for 30 years and I'm a better coach now than I was. But don't, I think that's. That feels like a very low bar to me. I don't mean because I'm not a good coach, I mean because I'm supposed to be getting better. Right, that's the goal, right, right, yeah, and, by the way, it's what I'm asking my clients to do, right.

Dr. William Attaway: 27:15

They follow where we lead. If we're not leading in that something's wrong. And yet how many leaders and I'm sure you see this just like I do how many leaders get to a point and they just stop learning. They're not as intentional about it as they once were william, listen, my heart goes out to them.

Tom Henschel: 27:53

I work with these men and women in these big corporations where their jobs are so big. I mean, oh my god. And then you know, the overseas parent company calls and you jump it and it's 10 30 at night. These poor people, why are they not learners? They're lucky to get through their day, do you know? I mean, and they've got inboxes with 300 emails and I mean, oh my gosh, why are they not learners? My heart goes out to them. I listen, I show up about to kind of challenge them and I'm aware, like, can you tolerate this? So I mean, I think I understand why people aren't learners. I do, I totally understand.

Dr. William Attaway: 28:31

So what? So what do they do if they feel that overwhelm? But they know this is important. How do you challenge them to move into a learning posture?

Tom Henschel: 28:42

Well, by, usually they've asked for it. Hopefully, hopefully, right, right, yeah, but so I don't have to like convince them of that. Yeah, I, I. I like to think that that leaders, as people who are evolving, are looking around. Am I as happy as I was a year ago? Right, I hope it's true in long-term relationships. You've been married for 25 years. It doesn't mean you shouldn't look at your marriage, right? So you know you started your company and you're leading your company and it's going as well as it can go. Does that mean it can't be better? Are you probably getting feedback? That's the same as it was 10 years ago. You know people are still annoyed at that one thing, like, wouldn't you maybe want to take care of that? Now? At some point you're going to say it's worth it, right. At some point you're going to say I can add that to my plate because I know the payoff is going to make a difference.

Dr. William Attaway: 29:35

Brilliant as a continual learner yourself, as one who is always sharpening the saw. Is there a book that has made a big difference in your journey that you would recommend to the leaders who are listening? Hey, if you haven't you haven't read this or listened to this book. You should check it out so many.

Tom Henschel: 29:54

I feel like the dad who goes oh, I have to pick one child. Can I bargain and do two with you?

Dr. William Attaway: 30:02

Absolutely. You are not the first.

Tom Henschel: 30:04

So, listen, they're both old, but they both are books that I keep going back to and that have served my clients. So one is Crucial Conversations. It is Right, and the subtitle is Talking when the Stakes Are High. It's about helping you when you feel emotional and I think we do feel emotional at work. I mean, again, think about it. If it's my company and I started my company not only is my ego in it, my identity's in it. I should be emotional about this, right.

Tom Henschel: 30:40

So Crucial Conversations is a fun read. It's got great examples, it's an easy read, but it has tons of tools and in the back of the book there's a whole list of scripts and all kinds of it's just. It's a fantastic, very helpful, practical way to communicate better. That literally what comes out of your mouth is going to change the next thing that happens. It's fantastic. That's number one. Number two, on a whole other level the Four Agreements. The Four Agreements is a book of four agreements that you make with yourself. That of course, there's no finish line, and I have used this with so many of my leaders in a way that has been very surprising. The one agreement that many, many, many many people are working on is don't take anything personally and he writes so well about it. But he writes so well about all of it, so it's a meaningful book. It's helpful, practical, touching, heartfelt book about the agreements we make with ourselves oh good.

Dr. William Attaway: 31:43

I could talk with you for another hour. There's just so much wisdom and so many insights that you've shared, and I'm so grateful for that. I know people are going to want to stay connected to you and continue to learn from you. What is the best way for them to do that? Continue to learn from you what?

Tom Henschel: 31:58

is the best way for them to do that. I would say, take a look at the podcast or you know, wherever podcasts are available. It's the look and sound of leadership and you can always contact me through the show notes there. Or you can go to our website, where there's I'm sure William you know about this there's lots of free tools. There are lots of PDFs that you can download and have for yourself. My company's name is Essential Communications and the website is EssentialComcom, and then there's a tab called Essential Tools where you can just go in, and there's lots of stuff there, and we just posted one recently that people are grabbing it like a hot kick. It's great.

Dr. William Attaway: 32:37

And we will have all those links in the show notes. Terrific Tom, thank you. Thank you so much for your generosity today.

Tom Henschel: 32:44

And for you and what you do for your listeners, so thanks.

Dr. William Attaway: 32:47

Thanks for joining me for this episode today. As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode, and if you find value here, I'd love it if you would rate it and review it. That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast. Second, if you don't have a copy of my newest book, catalytic Leadership, I'd love to put a copy in your hands. If you go to catalyticleadershipbookcom, you can get a copy for free. Just pay the shipping so I can get it to you and we'll get one right out.

Dr. William Attaway: 33:23

My goal is to put this into the hands of as many leaders as possible. This book captures principles that I've learned in 20 plus years of coaching leaders in the entrepreneurial space, in business, government, nonprofits, education and the local church. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about. If you're ready to take a next step with a coach to help you intentionally grow and thrive as a leader, I'd be honored to help you. Just go to catalyticleadershipnet to book a call with me. Just go to catalyticleadershipnet to book a call with me. Stay tuned for our next episode next week. Until then, as always, leaders choose to be catalytic.

Intro/Outro: 34:07

Thanks for listening to Catalytic Leadership with Dr William Attaway. Be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss the next episode. Want more? Go to catalyticleadershipnet.