How To Overcome Digital Marketing Challenges And Lead Yourself With Seth Goldstein

In this episode, I sit down with Seth Goldstein, an entrepreneur who made a bold leap from journalism to digital marketing in 2008. Seth shares his journey of building a thriving business, balancing personal life with professional responsibilities, and mastering the evolving landscape of digital marketing. As Seth reveals, staying on top of industry changes, like SEO and AI advancements, can feel overwhelming, but self-leadership and focus are key to success. He discusses the challenges of being an entrepreneur, including the delicate balance between work and life, and why understanding your limits is essential for mental health.

Seth also offers insights on how business owners can avoid getting lost in the chaos of social media and digital trends by focusing on a few platforms and prioritizing what matters. If you’re looking for actionable advice on growing a business while navigating the ever-changing digital landscape, this episode delivers practical insights to help you overcome the obstacles in your way.

Connect with Seth Goldstein:

To connect with Seth Goldstein and learn more about his approach to digital marketing, check out his personal blog at SethGoldstein.me. You can also explore his podcast, Entrepreneur's Enigma, and subscribe to his newsletter for the latest marketing insights.

Books Mentioned:

• Lost and Founder by Rand Fishkin 

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Chapters

• 0:01 Seth’s Journey into Digital Marketing
• 1:15 The Importance of Self-Leadership
• 3:22 Balancing Business with Personal Life
• 7:09 Navigating Digital Marketing Challenges
• 13:52 Staying Focused in a Chaotic Digital World
• 21:22 The Role of Failure in Success
• 24:05 Future of Digital Marketing

Transcript

Dr. William Attaway: 0:00

I'm so excited today to have Seth Goldstein on the podcast. Seth was once an ink-stained newshound, but he has brilliantly reinvented himself as a pioneering digital marketer and an insightful podcast host.

Dr. William Attaway: 0:15

Cutting his teeth in the bustling newsrooms of Pennsylvania and New Jersey. His acumen journalistically and his relentless curiosity have served him well in the world of newspapers. But in 2008, he made a turn and swapped his notepad for a business blueprint and jumped into the entrepreneurial waters of digital marketing. To secure employment unexpectedly turned into a thriving venture that has been going strong for over a decade and a half. His podcast, the Entrepreneur's Enigma, is where Seth weaves tales of his adventures in business and spotlighting the experiences of other trailblazing entrepreneurs. Seth, I'm so glad you're here, man.

Seth Goldstein: 1:03

Thanks for being on oh my God, that was an NPR intro. That was like awesome. I love it, dude, that's awesome. Thank you. Thanks, doc.

Dr. William Attaway: 1:13

Well, thanks for being here.

Intro\Outro: 1:16

Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed to help leaders intentionally grow and thrive. Here is your host author and leadership and executive coach, dr William Attaway.

Dr. William Attaway: 1:31

Hey, listen, I want to start with your story, oh absolutely I'd like to share some of your story with our listeners. I hit a few high points, but I particularly want you to talk about your journey and your development as a leader oh boy, oh boy, that that that's a good question here.

Seth Goldstein: 1:48

Um, a lot of people say wait, seth, you're a leader. No, I'm joking, um, but I mean, as a journalist back in the day, you kind of had to self-lead and kind of like, even if you didn't have a team below you to of budding reporters that work with you, had to sign a self lead, self-motivate, self. Just find the story half the time. I mean sometimes. I mean, yeah, when I was in the newsroom back in the day there was four or five police scanners going at the same time and so literally when you all four went off at the same time, you knew that was a story, because four different counties had an issue, had something that was all going to the same thing, counties had an issue, had something that was all going to the same thing. It was hard when they were all doing the offer went off and there were four different things and some are things you couldn't get out to and it was like that you had a way to weigh which ones to go out to, what scenes of accents and whatnot to go out to. So it was always fun as a very as I ventured into digital marketing in my own agency and stuff like that.

Seth Goldstein: 2:42

I found that leadership is kind of key and it's still self-leadership. I mean, let's not be honest. Let's be honest, here it's still me doing, you know, motivating myself to kind of keep going. But I do have a team of four people that work with me and kind of making sure that they stay on the ball with certain projects, project manage them properly, make sure that things get done timely, not not at I want to do that day. Get to me by 9 pm minimum or maximum, and then by not two o'clock the next day, because that's the next day. I'm sorry, 2 am is the next day, my friend.

Dr. William Attaway: 3:16

So you know, I think you keyed in on something that we talk about a lot, and that is that leading yourself is challenging. You're the hardest person you're ever going to lead Absolutely you give yourself a lot of passes, you know, if you're like most of us, yeah, absolutely, it's tough, it's.

Seth Goldstein: 3:37

It can be challenging at times, especially like today with my dog being sick. I mean at times recording my dog, my dog, he has a tummy ache and you know, four or five vet visits, lots of money down the drain Worthy. Down the drain Worthy because she's worth it. But you know, that kind of made it. So it was hard to work today. That's one of the brilliance of being an entrepreneur is that it's like, well, I don't want to work today, what can I do to push off stuff? I'm like I do want to talk to William and I want to, you know, cause the dogs are sleeping over there and just minding your own business, which is great.

Seth Goldstein: 4:10

But it is self-motivation, self-leadership, leading yourself down the path and realizing today's is not going to be a day that I do a lot of work and honestly, accepting that it's kind of the hardest thing when you're leading yourself is realizing that, like, all right, I don't have to be on 24, seven. I mean, even if you're in a corporate job, you're not going to be on some days. I mean, yeah, you hope you actually can take a vacation day without you know and still make money on vacation. You know, because, whereas as an entrepreneur you don't take a vacation, you're not getting paid it's the biggest, it's the truest sense of commission but when you think about it, you have more flexibility to be more mentally healthy, I think, or not, or more mentally deranged sometimes, because you are an entrepreneur after all.

Dr. William Attaway: 4:56

Depends on how you lead yourself right.

Seth Goldstein: 4:58

Exactly.

Dr. William Attaway: 5:00

So in 2008, when you made the turn from the newsroom to the digital marketing world, into entrepreneurship, what was that?

Seth Goldstein: 5:09

like for you, terrifying. It was terrifying. I mean, it was also the best time to start a business. You know, the Great Recession started just then. No one was hiring and I'm like you know, I wanted to go into web design. I had been doing it on the side for so long. It's for fun. My wife my then fiance, my now wife was like start a business, get the job. No, I didn't get the job. I like being working for myself. I like being like look, my dog had issues Labor Day. I was at the ER all day with her. The next day, I was off all day with her at the ER, all day with her. The next day, I was off all day with her at the ER again because we had to figure out what's going on with her belly.

Seth Goldstein: 5:48

This is an air doodle. Doodles get into everything. Oh my goodness, doodles are the worst. I love them to death. They're the cutest and most muppety-looking animals there is. They're ridiculous-looking. They look like giant Wookiees. If you're a Star Wars fan, they look Star Wars fan. It was a Chewbacca and she's a five foot tall on her hind legs Chewbacca or, as I say, jewbacca.

Intro\Outro: 6:08

She's Jewish, so we'll go with that.

Seth Goldstein: 6:11

Anyhow. But I'm able to say, look, I'm just not taking calls. And today I had a client call and say or email me and say, hey, can we talk today? My mind says not where it needs to be to talk and be efficient and not snap or say no to things I shouldn't say no to. So he understood and I said, look, I'll talk to you tomorrow. That's good, it's. Knowing yourself is really what the key is Exactly.

Dr. William Attaway: 6:38

I mean knowing where you are and understanding when you're in a healthy spot and when you're not. This is something a lot of people could really learn, A lot of benefit from.

Seth Goldstein: 6:47

Took me a while. Buddy Took me a while.

Dr. William Attaway: 6:49

Too many people are operating in a place of. Well, I should be able to do this. Well, I should do this, so I will. Well, they'll like me more if I do this. This is not a good place for a leader to be.

Seth Goldstein: 7:02

No, a lot of times, being a leader is not the most popular place to be. A lot of times you do unpopular things to make it work well.

Dr. William Attaway: 7:13

The old Steve Jobs quote right? I mean if you want everybody to like you, don't be a leader.

Seth Goldstein: 7:19

Go sell ice cream. It's now sunshine and rainbows.

Dr. William Attaway: 7:22

That's exactly it. So since 2008, this has been your world entrepreneurship, and particularly digital marketing. I imagine if I were to draw a Gantt chart or a timeline of what your life has looked like and what digital marketing has looked like since 2008,. There have been a few changes.

Seth Goldstein: 7:43

A few. In the last week there's been a few.

Dr. William Attaway: 7:46

And that's the beauty of this field.

Seth Goldstein: 7:48

Yeah.

Dr. William Attaway: 7:48

Things are constantly changing and getting better in many ways.

Seth Goldstein: 7:53

Getting better is kind of debatable, depending on what you think of AI. It's all perspective. Right, it's all perspective, yeah.

Dr. William Attaway: 7:59

So what have you seen change since you entered this realm?

Seth Goldstein: 8:02

Quite a bit. I mean this still. I mean literally went from in person to remote to in person, to hybrid, to in person to remote all over, all over the place. I mean like because before the pandemic forced everyone to be remote and everyone's like, oh, I like this. There was a, there was a tendency to have remote work out there in the in the teens and that's why I went back and forth a few times with that site and when you think about it, a lot has changed, and not just in the business space, but like web one or just basic websites and blogs. So then blogs and now federate, which is like web 2.0.1 I would say it's a little beyond to web 2, because you can federate to the fediverse, and it was just like Mastodon and activity pub and all that stuff or it, you know, and you had Twitter and all that stuff.

Seth Goldstein: 8:47

That all came about around 2008 is when that web 2.0 started. It's where I started. Now what then? There's web three, which I don't usually go into because it's a kind of a. I'm not sure if it's as legitimacy yet People like to say, like Bitcoin and all that stuff's out there. You know, distributed organizations and stuff like that are out there, but really Web 2.0 is kind of growing and evolving. Ai is coming out now. Every single day there's a different story of like oh, this has changed, this has changed, this has changed. Oh my gosh, I can't keep up with this. Seo has changed significantly since the 2008 era, even more since the 1990s, before the millennia. You used to be able to spam Google like crazy. You used to not be Google, you used to be AltaVista and Dogpile. Remember Dogpile?

Seth Goldstein: 9:36

Oh yeah, was it Lycos with the doggy Keep, with the doggy trend there? Google came around and people were Remember there was this exact match domain names where you would put in like you know, william is a philosophercom and people search for William is a philosophercom, philosopher, and Google, and you come up right away because it was in your domain name. Google quickly realized that's stupid and stopped doing that, but not before people started saying books, kind of draperycom, is my company name and it's like what it's not it's not what you need to do.

Seth Goldstein: 10:12

So lots of change. So lots of change, lots of change.

Dr. William Attaway: 10:16

And with all that change, I mean a whole lot of business owners and leaders are struggling because it is changing all the time. I mean you mentioned AI. You know this is the bleeding edge oh God, yeah Of the space. You know, how can a business owner really stay on top of all this? How can they navigate this when things change almost daily?

Seth Goldstein: 10:39

You can't stay on top of it. You can take bits and pieces and absorb what you can and it's the knowledge that you can't absorb it all and just find what you're interested in. What vertical of image generation is it the content writing that you want to have a blog post outlined from AI? Then fill it in Like content generation, image generation, video generation, whatever floats your boat. Follow that trend. Because you can't absorb it all, I can't absorb it all. It's not possible.

Dr. William Attaway: 11:11

Because you can't absorb it all, I can't absorb it all, it's not possible, and I think this is why a lot of people business owners and leaders will come to an agency like yours and say hey, you're the SME here, I need your expertise. Where do you start when somebody comes to you and says hey, I'm just trying to, you know?

Seth Goldstein: 13:02

Start.

Dr. William Attaway: 13:03

Yeah Like, where know start? Yeah Like, where do you?

Seth Goldstein: 13:06

start with them. Usually I sit down and discover their needs, like what are they trying to do? Yeah, like literally. If they don't know what they're trying to do, then I'm like all right, let's go back and revisit what you want to do. It's really figuring that out first and then going from there Like what is their end goal that they're trying to achieve first, and then go back and fill in the in-between.

Dr. William Attaway: 13:30

I like that. I think start with listening right. Yeah, listen Two ears, one mouth.

Seth Goldstein: 13:37

buddy, Two ears, one mouth.

Dr. William Attaway: 13:39

I've heard that.

Seth Goldstein: 13:40

It's a good one.

Dr. William Attaway: 13:42

If only we operated that way you know, no one does another. Another thing that's really confusing for a lot of business owners, I find, is social media. Oh, you know, like you know the website's one thing, you know ads are one thing, and those are, that's big enough, right, but you throw social media into the mix. We know this is where people are. We want to go to where people are, but man.

Seth Goldstein: 14:05

There's a lot out there.

Dr. William Attaway: 14:07

Yeah, and it's changing all the time.

Seth Goldstein: 14:09

It is, and I think people need to pick one or two platforms. Focus on those. Get your handle everywhere. It's fine, but like, focus on one, two platforms. If you're going to do video YouTube, you know platforms. If you're going to do video, YouTube and maybe LinkedIn if you're in business. If you're not in business, do Instagram and YouTube. Do something like that. That's usually why I suggest them do.

Dr. William Attaway: 14:29

Yeah, that's good, so start asking questions Always.

Seth Goldstein: 14:33

What do you want?

Dr. William Attaway: 14:35

to do. Why do you want to do that? Where do you want to go? Why do you want to go there and then start small?

Seth Goldstein: 14:41

Always start small. Don't do a broad brush, because you're going to get lost and you're going to get distracted by the shiny objects.

Dr. William Attaway: 14:49

So you've been in this long enough that I feel like you would have a good answer to this question.

Seth Goldstein: 14:54

No pressure.

Dr. William Attaway: 14:55

You have seen a lot of change and you've navigated through it now for 16 years.

Seth Goldstein: 15:01

Yeah, almost 17, yeah.

Dr. William Attaway: 15:02

Where do you see digital marketing and social media going? That's interesting. Two, three years.

Seth Goldstein: 15:09

That's interesting. Yeah, because I would say no one can tell, because in three years it's going to be drastically different. Because things next week are going to be drastically different. I mean, moore's Law is out the window, yeah, yeah, moore's Law is out the window. Moore's Law is out the window. Kids, look up on Wikipedia. Moore's Law. I'd say the question should be more phrased like this Where's digital marketing going to be next month, next three months, next year? Because I feel like next month, next three months, next year, because I think I feel like next month alone.

Seth Goldstein: 15:47

The decentralized internet like which is like mastodon and peer tube and all those, and like blue sky, they're all constantly evolving. To try and take on x or twitter or exeter or whatever you want to call it, and try to figure out mashups together didn't work too well. Feel free to edit that out. No, I'm joking, but ultimately I feel like AI is changing so much. I mean, there's a new version of open AI that knows more now. Now has the memories. You don't have to constantly tell it what you want.

Seth Goldstein: 16:14

Funny thing about the memory there is that if you don't forget to change its memory to what else you're doing, it'll start talking about something that you talked about last time. You know, no, no, no, no, no, I'm talking about this now. So, and it's like oh, I'm sorry, I mean, oh, please tell me what you want to talk about. So it's very apologetic, but, like I said every, every week, every month, it's evolving, I think, and how you evolve with it has to look at not the macro but the micro. What you're doing next week is more important than what you're going to do next year.

Dr. William Attaway: 16:49

That's good. So, as you think back over the last 16 years, what is, what is one of the big wins that you've experienced with your business?

Seth Goldstein: 16:59

Well, growing my personal brand has been one of the biggest ones, I think, wins. It's because people know me, know my name, like on LinkedIn. They're like, yeah, oh, I know you. Oh, I know you from LinkedIn, I know you from LinkedIn. They convert into business. Hey, what do you do? Oh, you do this. I can use you for this and that's one of the biggest wins. I mean, hands down, we'll keep the business open, honestly.

Dr. William Attaway: 17:20

Well, that's for sure, that's a win.

Seth Goldstein: 17:22

Yeah, sometimes harder than others. I mean, it's not overnight success, it's overnight 16-year success and still evolving.

Dr. William Attaway: 17:29

You know I think somebody would look at you on LinkedIn and look at your social footprint and say, oh wow, here's this guy man. His journey's just been up and to the right. No, it's been up to the right and down to the left, up to the right. Yeah, it's been crazy. So can you share something that would illustrate what you're saying, that this has? Just been up and to the right.

Seth Goldstein: 17:50

No, I mean back in 2013, 2014,. I went and worked for Merck for a year Because the kid was born and then I had to get a job for a little while. I mean it's still difficult to me running, but I worked for murk. I learned that I do not like corporate. I thought I had not worked for corporate other unless you call it journalism corporate, which you really can't call journalism anything but journalism and so I ended up. I hadn't really done corporate before and I tried it. I didn't like it. I laughed and reopened up, went dove back into ghost media again and it's been up and to the right somewhat since then. It just bumps in every road. I don't know if it looks successful versus if it was overnight. Success is lying to themselves.

Dr. William Attaway: 18:29

Yeah, no, it's absolutely true. Has this journey, this entrepreneurial journey, has this changed your perspective on the life that you live, beyond what you do at work?

Seth Goldstein: 18:39

Well, it's a deep one, but yeah, it really has. It's given me the opportunity, like I said, to take care of my dog, take care of my kid. My kid needs me to be off with him for the day I can. Or if he's home from school and I want to leave him all day, I don't have to go into the office. I go down to the basement and work. I'm able to be wherever I need to be to work. I'm able to be wherever I need to be to work. Unfortunately, that means also when I go on vacation, my laptop comes with me and I work for at least an hour on vacation, because I got to at least keep up on these darn emails being in my existence.

Dr. William Attaway: 19:13

What's next for you? What's the next mountain you?

Seth Goldstein: 19:17

want to climb Next mountain is to grow Entrepreneur's Enigma. Grow Mark of Injuncto. The newsletter shameless plugs, you know, but it's to kind of grow those, grow my personal brand. More advice, more startups help kind of expand other people's horizons as well.

Dr. William Attaway: 19:34

So what would be? What would be different?

Seth Goldstein: 19:39

What would be different? What was that again If?

Dr. William Attaway: 19:41

you if you climb those mountains, if you climb those mountains. If you do, what would be different?

Seth Goldstein: 19:45

I, I, I honestly can't say, because, honestly, if I, if those mountains are climbed, I just had to find the next biggest mountain to climb after that and after that keep climbing. I mean it's, it is up into the right, even if it's not monetarily. Success is multiple things. Success is happiness, success is money, success is family. Success is a bunch of different things. No-transcript. There's a lot to success. It's not a binary one or zero.

Dr. William Attaway: 20:16

It just isn't so what stops you?

Seth Goldstein: 20:19

Not much, not much. Honestly, I'm so ADD. If I want to start something else up, I'll start it up and then maybe it won't continue. I mean, there's been so many little failures along the way with things I've started. I mean, my podcast is going on three years and 238 episodes, and that's the longest I've ever done a podcast, for I've done six or seven podcasts and they've varied degrees 100 episodes here, 100 episodes there, 200 there, few different seasons. This is the longest it's been. And also I keep forgetting to change the season. It's still season one and we're 238 episodes three years later.

Dr. William Attaway: 20:55

So apparently I'm not doing seasons so, as you, as you think about those next mountains, yeah like, do you see obstacles in the path?

Seth Goldstein: 21:06

oh my god, there's always obstacles. I mean, if you don't see them, you're gonna stumble and hit them head on this rise. Oh, there's an obstacle. I mean an obstacle. You know the bandwidth of time and energy is an obstacle. Family is an obstacle. As much as it's a blessing, it can be a pain. That took us massively because, like, kid needs lunch right now. Oh my God, I gotta go run up and go give him lunch. That completely ruined my flow. I mean, just completely talk about day to day. It ruins your flow. It's like, oh God, it takes you like an hour and a half, two hours to get back into that flow and by then the kid or the dog needs something. So those are obstacles, those are daily obstacles. Yeah, just the way it is. If you only hit bumps in the road, you're not on the right road. I feel like. I feel like you need to have some grit to it, like grip and some grit, because if it's a perfectly smooth surface, you're going to slip and slide and fall back down.

Dr. William Attaway: 22:03

In my opinion and I don't think anybody experiences a purely smooth surface and if that's what you think, a win is. If you think, unless it's perfectly smooth, I must be on the wrong road.

Seth Goldstein: 22:10

No, that's okay it has to keep you hungry. It's got to keep you. It has to keep you hungry. It's got to keep you agile. And failure is not a bad thing. Failure, fail fast and keep learning. Yes, and learn from those failures.

Dr. William Attaway: 22:23

Failure is the price of success.

Seth Goldstein: 22:25

Absolutely. Oh, I like that. That's a good one too, I like that.

Dr. William Attaway: 22:27

I mean, that's what it takes to get there. There is no one who has succeeded at a high level without a ton of failure along the way. No, and failure is part of life. It's not the enemy, no Right, it's part of the journey.

Seth Goldstein: 22:41

Yeah, makes life interesting.

Dr. William Attaway: 22:44

So how do you stay on top of your game as the leader of your business? Your business needs you to lead at a higher level today than it did five years ago.

Seth Goldstein: 22:54

Oh gotcha.

Dr. William Attaway: 22:55

Five years from now, it's going to need you to lead at an even higher level today than you did five years ago. Oh gotcha, Five years from now it's going to need you to lead it at an even higher level. Now you just stressed me out, william. That's what I'm doing, that's my goal. How do you continue to grow, how do you continue to level up with the skills that your team and your clients are going to need you to have?

Seth Goldstein: 23:11

It's a lot of reading. I'll be honest with you. It's a lot of reading. I'll be honest with you. It's a lot of reading SEO. A lot of people are like oh, what's the secret sauce of SEO? There's no secret sauce. It's a lot of reading and adjusting and waiting two weeks. It's a lot of. I'm on top of it, so you don't have to be. It's really what it is. I'm on top of things that my team's not even on. Designers don't have to learn about the whole SEO side of things. Seos don't have to learn what designers do. Necessarily, they have to have a brief understanding, but they don't have to be as intricately involved. They need to know everything, or as much of everything as they can possibly do.

Dr. William Attaway: 23:48

If I could put you in a time machine and put you back in 2008, talking to yourself, and you could share one piece of advice or wisdom based on what you've learned, what you know now, what would you love to go back and tell yourself?

Seth Goldstein: 24:04

Corporate sucks and don't go into it. You're not made for corporate. No, I think I would tell myself just keep going, keep your head down, keep going yeah, corporate sucks. Yeah, maybe you should try it out for yourself. But like you're not going to like it, you're just not going to like it. Year and a half you're going to be like I'm done, I'm going to go to being an entrepreneur. It's worth a try. You know.

Dr. William Attaway: 24:26

So you mentioned that you read a lot, and that's one of your pathways to growth. Is there a book that you would recommend to all the leaders who are listening? Hey, if you haven't read this, this was a game changer for me.

Seth Goldstein: 24:38

Yeah, rand Fishkin has a book. He's an SEO and now a media intelligence what's it called? Again Lost and Founder? It's about his journey for building Mozcom, seo Moz, which is a big tool set for SEOs, and he tells about his pros and cons of venture capital, pros and cons of what he did wrong, what he learned from it, all that stuff and it really shows his human side and I feel like everyone should read that. I mean, if you were to go, you know Stephen Covey's books Nah, I read them, they're great but I think Rand Fishkin's books and his blog posts are fantastic.

Dr. William Attaway: 25:16

That's so good. I haven't read that, but I'm going to check it out now it's worth it. It's hard to find now, but it's out there, you know people hear stories like yours, Seth, and I believe they're inspired by your resilience, that you continue to press forward even when the road is not smooth.

Dr. William Attaway: 25:32

I think they're inspired by the success that you're achieving now, and I know that you're not done, I better not be done If you can sit across the coffee table with each one of them and give them one piece of advice, no matter where they are in their journey. What would you love to tell them?

Seth Goldstein: 25:48

I want to tell my 2008 self head down keep going, Just keep going. Don't be afraid of failure. Try things, break things, try things again. Don't break them that time. Learn from the first breakage, or break them slightly less than the time before that you know cause. You're going to keep making the same mistakes, slightly less, and that's what I mean. Anyone says learn from your mistake and don't do it again. It's ridiculous. You're going to make the same mistake. You're just hopefully going to learn something from the first mistake that you're not going to do again in the second mistake. But it's all part of the process of learning.

Dr. William Attaway: 26:25

It's all learning, and learning is not a bad thing. And remember, there's no such thing as a wasted experience.

Seth Goldstein: 26:29

No.

Dr. William Attaway: 26:29

Because they've all made you.

Seth Goldstein: 26:30

Some of them are frustrating, I can tell you that much.

Dr. William Attaway: 26:32

But yeah, yeah, no doubt, Seth. This has been fascinating. I know people are going to want to stay connected to you and continue to learn from you and more about what you're doing. What is the best way for them to do that?

Seth Goldstein: 26:44

I would just go to sethgoldsteinme, it's probably the easiest. I mean, you can find me on LinkedIn, you can find me everywhere, I'm everywhere. But entrepreneursenigmacom, check out marketinggentocom Goldstein, me as the agency, I'm all over the place. But Seth Goldstein that me as my personal blog. You know that's probably. It has links to everything else on that site.

Dr. William Attaway: 27:05

So and we'll have all those links in the show notes.

Seth Goldstein: 27:08

Awesome.

Dr. William Attaway: 27:09

So thank you for your time today and for sharing about your journey so far and I know you're not done.

Seth Goldstein: 27:15

Thank you, alabama, sharing about your journey so far, and I know you're not done.

Dr. William Attaway: 27:21

Thank you, alabama. Terry Gross, you're good. Thanks for joining me for this episode today. As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode, and if you find value here, I'd love it if you would rate it and review it. That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast. Second, if you don't have a copy of my newest book, catalytic Leadership, I'd love to put a copy in your hands. If you go to catalyticleadershipbookcom, you can get a copy for free. Just pay the shipping so I can get it to you and we'll get one right out.

Dr. William Attaway: 27:57

My goal is to put this into the hands of as many leaders as possible. This book captures principles that I've learned in 20 plus years of coaching leaders in the entrepreneurial space, in business, government, nonprofits, education and the local church. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about. And if you're ready to take a next step with a coach to help you intentionally grow and thrive as a leader, I'd be honored to help you. Just go to catalyticleadershipnet to book a call with me. Stay tuned for our next episode next week. Until then, as always, leaders choose to be catalytic.

Intro\Outro: 28:41

Thanks for listening to Catalytic Leadership with Dr William Attaway. Be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss the next episode. Want more? Go to catalyticleadershipnet.