How to Lead with Faith and Create Impactful Organizations with Chris Young

Are you struggling to balance your leadership role with your personal values? It’s a challenge so many business owners face, and it’s one I’ve seen time and again in my work. In today’s episode, I talk with Chris Young, an extraordinary leader and the President of the Good Place Institute. 

Chris shares his remarkable journey from athletics to leading organizations, all rooted in the biblical principles that have guided him. We dive into how you can integrate your faith into your leadership, building businesses that value people, foster Shalom, and create thriving, regenerative work environments.

Chris explains how focusing solely on ROI and efficiencies can lead to disengagement and turnover in your team—and how valuing people is the key to unlocking true success. I promise you, this conversation will challenge you to think differently about leadership and business, and inspire you to build something truly meaningful.

Connect with Chris Young:
To learn more about building purpose-driven, flourishing organizations, visit The Good Place Institute or reach out directly to Chris Young at chris.young@goodplaceinstitute.com for a conversation on how they can help transform your business.

Books Mentioned:

1. The Good Place Organization: A Leader’s Guide to Good Stewarding Place Organizations – co-authored by Chris Young
2. Garden City by John Mark Comer
3. Desiring God by John Piper
4. With by Skye Jethani

Ready to Finish 2024 Strong?
Don’t wait until December to address your challenges. There's a few months left in 2024, now is the time to plan for a strong finish! Book a free strategy call with Dr. William Attaway to create a plan for impactful results. 

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Chris Young
• 3:48 Defining Leadership and the Who Principle
• 8:11 Integrating Faith and Business Leadership
• 20:41 Integrating Faith and Work: Life in God's Kingdom
• 26:36 Leadership Journey and the Importance of Community
• 35:55 The Book that Changed Chris Young's Life

Transcript

Dr. William Attaway: 0:00

Today to have Chris Young on the podcast. Chris is the president of the Good Place Institute, the chief of staff at Good Place Holdings and co-author of the book the Good Place Organization A Leader's Guide to Good Stewarding Place Organizations. Chris has spent over 20 years researching and developing biblically-based approaches, methods and resources, while leading and helping others build and steward for-profit and non-profit organizations to bring about organizational life and achieve organizational success from a biblical worldview. Throughout his career, chris has served on several senior leadership teams and in management leadership roles domestically and internationally, from startup businesses and regional consulting firms to a $60 million service and manufacturing company, and on the boards of several nonprofit organizations. Chris, I'm so glad you're here. Thanks for being on the show.

Chris Young: 0:56

Oh, thank you, William. Thanks for having me. It's obviously an honor.

Intro / Outro: 1:01

Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed to help leaders intentionally grow and thrive. Here is your host author and leadership and executive coach, dr William Attaway.

Dr. William Attaway: 1:19

I would love to start, chris, with a bit of your story. I'd love for you to share some of your story with our listeners, particularly around your journey and your development as a leader. How did you get started, really?

Chris Young: 1:32

good question. Yeah, I grew up in a family, I grew up in a Christian home, grew up with athletics really being, you know, athletics and academics and spirituality being, you know, a big part of our family. So, honestly, I think athletics had a lot to do with it. You know, honestly, worked really hard at athletics and unfortunately or unfortunately it was kind of a god for me as I was growing up, it was the reason why I did things and didn't do things, but it also allowed for opportunities to to lead, you know, to lead teams, whether that be, you know, you're just leading and modeling or you're, you're actually the captain of the team or what have you.

Chris Young: 2:14

But athletics played a pretty big role in my life growing up and and seeing leaders and understanding leadership or you know, really, you know one of the things that I learned from you know, good, good and not so good coaches, as if you grew up in athletics, you had good and not so good coaches. I had had an opportunity to have some really really good coaches, especially at the collegiate level, and you know I didn't always like the decisions they made, but I knew why they made them and I respected them, liked the decisions they made but I knew why they made them and I respected them.

Chris Young: 2:46

And you know that kind of thing really hit home with me as I was growing up and you know, into business and into organizational life and work.

Chris Young: 2:58

You know that kind of learning in athletics was really important to me to understand. You know, I had a coach who we understood why he was making those decisions. You know we understood the purpose for which he was making those decisions. Now I probably couldn't have put it in those words, you know, back then but in hindsight you really knew that, you know, and some of those decisions was hey, chris, you're not starting or you know, or whatever the case may be, and you're like, well, you know, as an athlete you're like, well, that didn't feel real good but I understand why you're doing that, you know. And that became really really important to me in some of the leadership development and and actually you know, didn't know it at the time very, very biblical concept. You know Simon Sinek did not invent the concept. Start with why. You know that's like 2000 years old, so that that that leaderly quality of being very purposeful and searching for the why behind what you're doing became very, very important in my life.

Dr. William Attaway: 4:00

Chris, how would you define leadership?

Chris Young: 4:01

Another great question. Maybe in two words and this might sound too simple leadership is a role to serve and steward.

Dr. William Attaway: 4:16

And who are you serving?

Chris Young: 4:18

Great question. So we have this fun little concept and we call it the who principle. You know, simon Sinek has the why principle kind of thing. We call it the who principle. You know, simon Sinek has the why principle kind of thing. We call it the who principle. So at the center is a capital, who, right? And it's the God of the universe, the triune God, creator of the universe. That's our big who that we're serving, right. And then you have the concentric circles, like you know why are you doing what you're doing? You know what are you doing and how are you doing it. And then who are you serving with the stuff that you're doing? So I would call that kind of like the lowercase who. So who are we serving? We're serving the creator of the universe and we're serving that which he created, the epitome of creation, which is human beings. So I think we're serving both and we can serve creation as well and managing and stewarding it well. But that's a great question and I think we're serving both.

Dr. William Attaway: 5:16

You talk in a way that really blends your faith into what you do vocationally, and I think for a lot of our listeners this is something that maybe they've never done before. I'm a person of faith. You are, and as we come to this, it's just part of who we are. Right, it's part of our DNA. It's hard not to be all of ourselves in what we do, but for some people that's a new idea and perhaps an uncomfortable concept. What would you say to that if they were like well, I don't know about this whole integration piece of that.

Chris Young: 5:56

Yeah, and you know that's really perpetuated. You know the common phrase is, like you know, the sacred versus the secular. You know the common phrase is, like you know, the sacred versus the secular. Yeah, you know that kind of that kind of phrase. You know I think you want to be very curious when entering into that conversation. You know you want to be very caring, empathetic.

Chris Young: 6:21

You know, how did we arrive at this bifurcation between the sacred and the secular when, you know, I like to just go to the Bible and say, hey, god, bible, what are you saying about this? You know, if the Bible is true, if Jesus says, excuse me, is who? He says he is right, he's the creator and the designer of all things that we see, including ourselves, and he has purpose for it, then all things are sacred and all things have meaning. Right, so some of it is maybe you know, pointing people to that there is a designer of all things. He has a purpose for all things.

Chris Young: 7:05

Not to be trite, but his purpose could be phrased as his glory in human flourishing or human shalom, because he cares about people and he cares about places. All throughout the whole Bible, he's caring about people and he's caring about places, and he created out of his overflow of love that he wanted to share it with us and us share it with him and with each other. And so just kind of unpacking some of those like major pillar, I guess, meta-narrative teachings throughout. You know the books of the Bible, maybe just walking through those things, and a friend of mine has this saying you know, using stained glass language versus plain glass language, so you know I like that.

Chris Young: 7:53

Yeah, maybe try to use more plain glass language as best we can. You know, I like to you know. You know, there's a concept in God's word where God wants to hang out with us. Now we understand that he's savior, he's Lord, he's creator, he's awesome, you know, and he and he desires to be with us. Well, wow, how does that practically play out? And kind of unpacking the practice, I call it like the practical, tactical stuff, especially as it relates to you know, god, what do you say about work? You, according to the Bible, you invented it. It's not a bad thing, it's actually one of the things we were designed to do. That bring us shalom, bring us fulfillment, bring us meaning, bring us purpose. It's not so important that it brings us identity, but it is very important that it's a way to bring us fulfillment and things. And again, just trying to, you know, william, just trying to unpack that in a very practical way, that kind of just says, hey, this is what the Bible says. So I don't know if that answered really well, but you know again.

Dr. William Attaway: 8:58

Yeah, yeah, no, I think so, and this keys into where I really want to dive in today, and that is around your work with the Good Place Institute. Can you share a little bit about what you're doing there and why you believe this is so important?

Chris Young: 9:14

Yeah, sure, thank you. Thank you for asking that question. So when we describe the Good Place Institute, we really like to describe it kind of in this why and what and how rhythm that I kind of alluded to earlier, you know so. So the why behind the Institute again is we hope the desire is it's derived from God and his word and it's it's really to multiply good place organizations is really our purpose. We call it a charter. You know Well what is a good place organization, what are you trying to multiply? And so the what part of this is, what are we trying to, you know, to achieve?

Chris Young: 9:54

We would say that, hey, all good place organizations have three main aims or three main outcomes. The first is the valuing of people. We phrase it this way we want to give people, or provide people, the opportunity and encouragement to develop and grow into their full potential. That's number one and we can unpack that and we have operational definitions of how that gets played out and we can get to that maybe in a minute. But that's the first aim or the first outcome. The second outcome we say it's building up good places in the excuse me, building up good places in the communities where we work and where we live. So that's the geographic community, that's the community of customers that we serve, suppliers that might serve us, associations we might be a part of through the businesses that we're in, the products and services we make, the skill sets we build up. We want to build up good places where people love to come to work, where people love to live through the businesses we're in. And then the last one, excuse me, is about being economically regenerative. It's a stewardship principle of stewarding the economics of things where we are creating surplus that allows us to value more people Right and build up more good places. And it's kind of it's kind of a Venn diagram, kind of symbiotic, you know. It's like, hey, how do you have more than one priority? Well, we have three priorities. We have three main outcomes that all good place organizations are trying to achieve.

Chris Young: 11:26

And then along comes the institute and says OK, if you want to achieve an organization that that looks like those three aims, or that's your trajectory or your direction. We've assembled what we call the good place organization operating system. That has 10 organizational building blocks, if you will, or components that you can take it in its fullest and its holistic framework or you can modularly, you know, apply this to your organization based on need or opportunity or what have you. But we, you know, we train it, we teach it, we consult on the implementation of it, we coach on living it out throughout the you know the lifespan of the business. But it's really it's. If you want plain glass language, it's an organization operating system that's been intentionally designed to achieve those three aims. And if you want the stained glass language, it's a way to design an organization that brings about life in God's kingdom, more shalom, more human flourishing, and it's intentionally designed that way.

Dr. William Attaway: 12:32

Yeah, I've heard a lot of people talk about shalom, but I've rarely heard somebody talk about it the way you do, because the way you're describing it is truly, I believe, what the text actually means. It is truly, I believe, what the text actually means. It's not just the absence of peace or the absence of conflict, which is how we typically translate it. Peace is absence of conflict. No, it's fullness, it's wholeness, it's completeness in every sphere of our lives. That is true shalom, as God intended it, and what you are doing. You kept coming across this phrase and every time I resonate with it so deeply that it's about valuing people. That's why, valuing people and you do this to value people, to add value to people, because that is so much a part of who you are and who I am as people of faith that is key.

Dr. William Attaway: 13:25

And I think so often businesses and business owners and leaders can get distracted from that and we think, oh well, it's really all about the ROI and the bottom line and it's really all about the efficiencies and the effectiveness of what we're doing, and those things matter and I'm not trying to say they don't Right, but if those things matter more than valuing the people that you lead. You are going to find all of those things ultimately negatively impacted, right? Right. If people feel like widgets or gears in the machine instead of like actually valued 3d human beings, they're not going to stick around. Your retention is going to go to the floor.

Chris Young: 15:34

Yeah, yeah, again, love what you're sharing, because this idea of the English language is so limited, right, In absence of conflict, or just plain old.

Chris Young: 15:44

You know, peace, right, um, but it is all those things, and one of the one of the other kind of operational definitions of shalom that we like to use is harmony harmonious relationship with God, harmonious relationship with ourselves and each other, and harmonious relationship with creation and, in our context, with the work that we do in the organizational life that we live, in our workday, you know. So maybe personal opinion, I happen to think the word shalom might be the number one word that describes life in God's kingdom. That's what we get to have.

Dr. William Attaway: 16:23

I love that.

Chris Young: 16:23

Harmonious relationship with him, right yeah absolutely.

Chris Young: 16:27

And that's what we're after. We have a phrase what are you trying to do? Among the myriad of phrases that we like to have, one is we want to build up hearts of love and lives of shalom, because throughout all of the Bible, you know, we like to say too that God's in the placemaking business. He cares. You know why did we pick those three aims? We didn't pick them. They're revealed to us throughout scripture. Because what does God care about? He cares about people like you shared. He cares about places because throughout all of the Bible, he's constantly putting good people in good places for his glory and their shalom.

Chris Young: 17:01

Yes, and you know another author. I love his book. It was called Garden City. You know it started with a garden and in Revelation it's going to end and go throughout eternity as a city, right, and the major characteristic is shalom and some Revelation. It's going to end and go throughout eternity as a city, right, and the major characteristic is Shalom and some people. You know, I think this, I think we're going to be working. Yes, me too, because it was. It was made good and very good. Yes, no, so, so, yeah, so that's kind of what you know we're desiring to do here.

Chris Young: 17:32

Is that holistic integration Again, I'll use some stained glass language, but that holistic integration of what does life in God's kingdom look like? If your business was in God's kingdom, how would it operate? What would it look like? You know, and all those things that you shared, you know, efficiencies and and are, you know, those things are, are important. You know. We say, like, how do you value people? Well, one way, we, you know. We look at God's word. It says everybody's made in God's image, so everyone deserves love and care and respect and honor. Number one, number two we go another step.

Chris Young: 18:08

We want to train people to do the best job they can do yes you know, we want to educate them as to why that job is important, how it fits with all the other jobs, that everybody works together to fulfill a common and collective purpose, and we want to develop everyone's full potential. Well, in in scripture, in the bible, everyone's full potential is becoming more and more human, becoming more and more like the perfect human right. So how do you put together organizational design around that idea? You know, in the Bible or in church that's called making disciples, drawing out the image-bearing qualities, both the soft skill qualities that we learn the most about in church. But how about the hard skill, image-bearing qualities? I think Jesus would have made an amazing accountant because he invented numbers right. So drawing out that image-bearing quality, if you will, I know that's a tiny bit of a stretch, but, like we believe, that's a disciple making maneuver, just in a broader sense, of making someone more human.

Chris Young: 19:15

And John 10, 10,. Jesus said I came that you could have life, and life to the full, life to the shalom in every aspect of life. So how do we create working environments where that's the case? You know, so we do. We have charters. You know this is the operating system. We have charters. We talk about leadership. We talk about managing systems and valuing people and developing them versus just managing people. We talk about how do you align and integrate the purpose of the organization to every person in the organization through training, education, development and feedback loops versus performance evaluations Right, how do you stewardship plan versus Wall Street plan? You know how do you communicate? How do you manage finance? How do you manage innovation?

Chris Young: 19:58

in a kingdom organization, I mean you know that's an image bearing quality. Jesus, the creator of the entire universe, was the greatest innovator ever.

Dr. William Attaway: 20:07

It's true.

Chris Young: 20:08

So how do you play that out in an organizational setting? But, like you said lots of times, we're not thinking this way because there is this tiny little thing called the sacred secular myth, right, and if we can dispel that and say, hey, everything's sacred, everything is meaningful, everything has eternal purpose, right, what does it look like? So, sorry to keep going, but one of the this gets me really excited because one of the you know. So I come across a lot of CEOs, we talk, a lot of CEOs that are people of faith, right, and I'll just kind of summarize some of the conversations and then follow up question, because a lot of the conversations, you know, hey, what's the purpose of business? Hey, it's a platform to evangelize, to share Jesus, et cetera, et cetera, and a lot of it and I say this with all due respect it's a lot of sprinkling Christianity on top of a worldly business model, right, and that's really really good. Keep doing that, figuring out how you can have Bible studies and pray and all that sort of thing in the midst of business, and that's wonderful.

Chris Young: 21:13

And the CEO you know, I'm trying to model Jesus, I'm trying to model, you know, the king in my business, and I think that's awesome. Please, please, keep doing that so so I share this. So you're trying to model Jesus, model the king, in your workplace setting. That's wonderful. Does your organization model his kingdom? And that's kind of where we desire to come in is if you know these characteristics of God's kingdom, you know, flourishing, fulfillment, thriving, shalom, beauty, right Developing one's full potential, safety, lifelong learning you know those types of things leads to a thriving organization, a flourishing individual, a prospering community and, honestly, the world becomes a better place because that organization exists, and that's just unbelievably exciting to us 100%.

Dr. William Attaway: 22:11

Is that passion what prompted you to write the book the Good Place Organization.

Chris Young: 22:16

Yes, and there was three kind of co-authors, two other gentlemen Dale Bissonette, who's the CEO of Good Place Holdings, and then Scott Myers, who started writing some writings called the Utopian Principles, you know, spelled with an EU, you know, good, good place, Nice. So it's the good. So, and it was really like again trying to derive God, what are you saying about work? What's the purpose of work? What's the purpose of organizational life? And then that led to OK, so how does this philosophy and academia kind of approach get you know, this is not a word, but you know, practicalized in a workplace setting so we can apply tools and methods that are derived from principles and values that are derived from God and his word and apply them to business, apply them to organizational design and how we operate and steward and lead and build up an organization again that espouses and directed towards those three aims.

Chris Young: 23:16

That was really really important slash kind of a I would call it like a holy discontent, because we looked around and tried to find, hey, are other people doing this? Around and try to find, hey, are other people doing this? And a friend of mine described it this way we found a lot of people that are in the philosophy and academia who are talking about doing this, this holistic kingdom integration, but not a lot of business acumen. And then found some wonderful people with business acumen but perhaps like not a depth or a breadth of theology, if you will to like totally integrate that into their business skills, which were fantastic, and kind of wanting to put those together and offer that to people who want to build up those kind of organizations. That was a big, big passion, a huge passion of how do those things come together.

Dr. William Attaway: 24:11

I love that integration. I think one of the things that we inherited from the ancient Greeks is this idea that we can compartmentalize our lives and that what happens in this part doesn't affect what happens over here, and that's a cute myth. It's just not reality and it's not how we are wired and designed, and I love that how we are wired and designed Right, and I love that you were bringing that into the business space. Yeah.

Chris Young: 24:33

And it was perpetuated by, you know, some of the great philosophers. I mean, you can go back way, you know the enlightenment period and you know Luther tried to try to dispel some of that. You know, but it's, it's kind immaterial, you know, or the working with your hands versus the contemplation thing. You know, you can look through, like you said, all through history and unfortunately some of that philosophy has infiltrated some of the Christian teaching really, and it's, you know, and it's not true. Yeah, you know. So if you just go back to the source material and it was funny, I was sharing this with a group of people one time and somebody said you know, hey, this is really neat. I haven't heard it talked about this way before.

Chris Young: 25:15

Where did you come up with that idea? You know, where'd you come up with these ideas? You know, it was kind of humorous because I said, hey, let's, let's call a timeout. These ideas have thousand plus years. Maybe we've just forgotten them, maybe it's time and it has been, and there's huge, you know, there's a wonderful movement, the faith at work movement of really trying to holistically integrate and bring about this idea of, hey, what does life look like in God's kingdom? Because who doesn't want shalom. Who doesn't want purpose and fulfillment and completeness and meaning and all of that? Right In Ecclesiastes he says God's placed eternity, god's placed those types of things on everyone's heart because everybody's made in his image. So, deep, deep down, it's what we really want. We just put a lot of stuff in the way.

Dr. William Attaway: 26:09

So good.

Chris Young: 26:09

I happen to think, you know, this is just for fun. I happen to think this approach is maybe the best diversity strategy on the planet, because it invites everyone in to build up hearts of love and lives of Shalom. Now, it's not perfect by any means, you know. Please don't hear that we don't have the corner of the market on the truth on this one, but this is what we're desiring to do.

Dr. William Attaway: 26:32

Yeah Well, you're inviting people to be truly themselves, as they were intended to be, as they were, as they are wired and designed and created, and I think anytime you invite people to be themselves authentically, in a healthy way, the healthiest, best version of themselves, people lean into that. People lean into that and they resonate because it hits something so core and so deep as to how every one of us is designed and created. I want to turn for just a minute, Chris, and talk about you. You are leading today at a level that you were not leading at five years ago. Your team, your company, needs you to lead from a different place, in a healthier and better way, and five years from now, it's going to need you to lead at an even higher place, in a better way. You to lead at an even higher place, in a better way. What are you doing to stay on top of your game? What are you doing to level up with the new leadership skills that your team and your company are going to need you to have?

Chris Young: 27:39

Yeah, well, you'll laugh. One of the things is try not to be the cobbler's children and try to actually apply what we teach other people about or consult with other people. So the idea of you know purpose to people and managing systems and innovation is actually apply it to ourselves, you know. So Love it. The novel idea, that's one, you know. Yeah, and this might be a little personal and maybe a little transparent I've just been on a journey of of desiring to be with Jesus, to be with him, to abide in him, in the everyday stuff of life that's serving him. Does it need to be grandiose? It could be, but it doesn't need to be. So it's almost. And this is a journey, and certainly I'm far from, you know, figuring some stuff out, but just the idea, just the desire, or maybe sometimes, when that desire doesn't come, the desire to want, the desire of just hanging out with Jesus all the time.

Chris Young: 28:55

Some would argue he was the best leader that ever existed and if you look at succession planning, I think he might have had the best succession plan ever, because his organization is still alive 2,000 years later. And you could argue with a lot of things about that and we can unpack that later, but just for fun, just for fun. You know he led the best revolution, the greatest, most impactful revolution the world has ever known. So if you look at leadership, so I try to look at him and some of the great leaders in God's word and obviously you want to look for other leaders you know outside, but really only where they're espousing truth and where they're espousing a biblical definition of success. You know an eternal look at success. You know what is success in God's economy, what's success in the creator's economy? You know, and sometimes so really kind of it's more like perspective, if you will. Certainly I want to hone leadership skills and those types of things, but really challenging. Why are we leading? Why are we doing what we're doing and making sure that that's in step with God's purpose for things?

Chris Young: 30:13

So I'm reading a lot of books. I'm reading John Mark Comer's Practicing the Way, garden City Love, john Piper Desiring. God just got done with books and yeah, and trying to surround yourself with good mentors. I mean that's, that's this really important. You know people that are. You know the two gentlemen that I named. They're a few years my senior. They're not only, you know, work colleagues and mentors, but you know they're also friends and brothers and mentors, like I said. You know they're also friends and brothers and mentors, like I said. So just a few ways, but really the desire to be with his has been extremely important and seek his significance, not my own. It's challenging and sometimes difficult, you know, because leaders are supposed to be out in the forefront, leaders are supposed to be doing podcasts, leaders are supposed to be the, you know, and sometimes that's interesting and difficult at the same time you know, I love the humility you approach that with and I love the awareness and the recognition that we don't do our best job as leaders solo.

Dr. William Attaway: 31:33

You know we lead best when we have people around us who are pouring into us, that we are pouring into. I believe leaders lead best when they are in community, when they have people around them to support them and encourage them and that they can support and encourage, and I love that you have that. I love that that's a part of your rhythm. I think that's a challenge for a lot of people, particularly in the entrepreneurial space, because you start something and you're solo for a bit most of the time, and that can be lonely and that can create challenges all of its own.

Dr. William Attaway: 32:09

Speaking of challenges, it's easy for somebody, I think, to look at you, chris, and say, oh, wow, listening to you talk about this and you got it all figured out. Your journey has just been up and to the right. Like you haven't had to deal with the problems that I deal with. Somebody might be thinking you know you haven't had to deal with the challenges I've had to deal with. If they were to stand in front of you and say that, well, what would your response be?

Chris Young: 32:35

Um, you know, maybe certainly I haven't walked in their shoes and experienced, you know, some of their challenges, um, and I think the life that God has allowed me my wife, our family, you know, even even in this business um, so very thankful, um, but there have been areas of life, or seasons of life, or long seasons of life, where there have been challenges. Um, you know, one particular one was an area where I really had to come to grips with. Uh, control is an illusion and everything we tried over, tried over this wasn't just days, this was weeks and months and years. Everything that we tried wasn't working to bring about the outcomes that we would think would be optimal or whatever Right, and handing that over to the Lord, without abdicating responsibility, and trying to understand what that looked like and understanding that maybe we aren't the change agents in this particular situation, that God is the change agent or he's going to utilize other people. So I'm still learning this, by the way, william still learning, still struggling, still challenged by these things and in our lives this was significant.

Chris Young: 34:00

There's other things, that other areas of life that you know, still still. You know you operate out of a tiny bit of fear, perhaps, or a tiny bit of anxiety, because you want to control, because you think you know what's best at the end of this thing, right? Because, to be quite honest, one of the challenges I have is summarized in the Lord's prayer. You know, thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. You know, in challenging myself, do I really want God's kingdom or do I really want God to bless my kingdom?

Chris Young: 34:33

And that's been a hard question because, if I'm honest, I really like when he blesses what I expect, you know, a shalomi life to look like. You know, and not that he, not that he doesn't love me, not that he doesn't have our best interest in mind he does. But I was reading the other day that you know we have a narrow view of life. You know we're time bound and all that. He has a narrow view and a wide view and he's good and he's loving. So, yes, significant challenges in our lives, I could share what they were, but ultimately it comes down to do, I trust the creator of the universe, who loves me and has my best interest in mind and who loves you and has your best interest in mind, you know. And so that's difficult and challenging and maybe a lifelong journey.

Dr. William Attaway: 35:27

For sure. I don't think there's ever a point we can say oh, I got that, I'm there.

Intro / Outro: 35:32

I've achieved that.

Dr. William Attaway: 35:33

That's a perpetual struggle. Yeah, you've run across a number of books already in this conversation that have made an impact on you. I ask every guest this question Is there a book that you would say, hey, this has made a huge difference in my leadership journey and if you haven't read this, you need to pick it up, because this one was a game changer for me.

Chris Young: 35:56

Yeah, well, I'm going to go to the obvious, and if you're a theology geek like me, it's not a book, it's a library of books I would suggest you know it sounds trite, but I would I would suggest people open up the Bible and one of the things that we like to share, because we have people that work at Good Place Holdings and the clients that we work with. You know, not everybody believes that way, you know, or believes that the Bible is the inerrant word of God, and what we like to share is hey, organizationally speaking, that's OK. You can believe the, you know the religiosity, if you will, of the Bible if you would like, and that's great. Or you can believe the facts of the Bible, if you would like, and that's great, or you can believe the facts about the Bible. It's the best-selling book ever Five billion copies according to Guinness Book a few years ago, or whatever it is, it's probably the most scrutinized book ever, the most studied book ever. So it might be a cool idea just to pick it up and see what it says. You know, and so you know if you want, if you want the book that changed my entire life. It's the word of God, and then it's the word of God made flesh in Jesus's life and death and resurrection. So I would just suggest you know again, I know that sounds like cliche and trite but, like we say, sometimes there's truth behind the cliches. That's why they're cliches, that's right, you know.

Chris Young: 37:40

So you know, maybe just pick up the Bible, because one of the things that's really interesting so you can get into leadership skills and techniques and things, but leadership character. And it's interesting because when we look at some of the you know, so-called great business leaders of all time, you know we all, they all had their faults and you know we all as leaders have our faults and dysfunctions and things. But when the most of the time, the characteristics that made them a great leader or that people look to them and say, wow, a lot of the times those are biblical characteristics of humility and transparency and being competent in the subject matter that you're leading and investing in a diversity of people and being visionary and being with people and developing their full potential and equipping and empowering. Those are all biblical concepts that we look in business books and go, oh, somebody made up this great business idea. You're like again, these are really. This is really old news if you just read the Bible.

Dr. William Attaway: 38:35

Chris, I could continue this conversation for another hour. There's so much resonance with what you're saying. I know people are going to want to stay connected with you and continue to learn more about what you do and about the Good Place. What is the best way for folks to do that?

Chris Young: 38:50

Yeah, easy way is our website, goodplaceinstitutecom. You're welcome to email me. It's chrisyoung. At goodplaceinstitutecom, we have a podcast. We have a number of different ways of hearing about us or getting in touch with us, but probably the website or an email is a good way to contact. As you can hopefully see, I love to share and listen and understand where people are coming from and hopefully meeting them there and seeing if we're supposed to journey together.

Dr. William Attaway: 39:24

Well, we'll have all those links in the show notes. Chris, I'm so grateful for your time today and for you sharing so open handedly from what you've learned so far in your journey.

Chris Young: 39:34

William, thank you so very much for having me on the show. Hopefully it was helpful to one of your listeners on their journey. William, thank you so very much for having me on the show. Hopefully it was helpful to one of your listeners on their journey. So I really appreciate being on the show. Thank you.

Dr. William Attaway: 39:45

Thanks for joining me for this episode today. As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode, and if you find value here, I'd love it if you would rate it and review it. That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast. Second, if you don't have a copy of my newest book, catalytic Leadership, I'd love to put a copy in your hands. If you go to catalyticleadershipbookcom, you can get a copy for free. Just pay the shipping so I can get it to you and we'll get one right out.

Dr. William Attaway: 40:21

My goal is to put this into the hands of as many leaders as possible. This book captures principles that I've learned in 20 plus years of coaching leaders in the entrepreneurial space, in business, government, nonprofits, education and the local church, business, government, nonprofits, education and the local church. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about. And if you're ready to take a next step with a coach to help you intentionally grow and thrive as a leader, I'd be honored to help you. Just go to catalyticleadershipnet to book a call with me. Stay tuned for our next episode next week. Until then, as always, leaders choose to be catalytic.

Intro / Outro: 41:05

Thanks for listening to Catalytic Leadership with Dr William Attaway. Be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss the next episode. Want more? Go to catalyticleadershipnet.