How To Build A Multimillion-Dollar Agency With People-First Strategies with Manish Dudharejia

Are you struggling to scale your business beyond the basics? Join me as I chat with Manish Dudharejia, the visionary behind E2M, a digital marketing agency that turned a modest $1,200 investment into a multimillion-dollar powerhouse. In this episode, I uncover how Manish transformed industry challenges into opportunities, building a thriving company with over 90% retention for both clients and employees. His people-first approach and win-win strategies are packed with actionable insights for your own business journey.

We dive into effective team-building tactics and growth strategies, exploring how Manish handles recruitment hurdles and keeps churn rates low. Learn about his impressive process for merging companies, onboarding 80 new team members, and the value of hiring generalists early on and specialists as you grow. 

Master second-order thinking with Manish’s insights on scaling, mergers, and acquisitions, and discover effective strategies for mastering focus and time management. Tune in for practical advice and real-life examples that will help you refine your business strategies and achieve exceptional growth.

Connect with Manish Dudharejia:
For insights and connection, reach Manish Dudharejia on LinkedIn, X, via email at manish@e2msolutions.com, and explore more at E2MSolutions.com.

Books Mentioned

• How Rich People Think by Steve Siebold
• Atomic Habits by James Clear
• The Almanack of Naval Ravikant by Naval Ravikant
• Rework by Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson

Ready to Finish 2024 Strong?
Don’t wait until December to address your challenges. There's a few months left in 2024, now is the time to plan for a strong finish! Book a free strategy call with Dr. William Attaway to create a plan for impactful results. 

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Manish Dudharejia
• 4:21 Team Building and Growth Strategies
• 10:42 The Importance of Aligning Incentives between Agency Owners and Employees
• 15:48 Selecting the Right People for Your Team
• 23:58 The Intersection of Philosophy, Psychology, and Spirituality in Leadership
• 28:56 Continuously Learning and Leveling Up as a Leader
• 34:24 Recommended Books and Podcasts for Further Learning
• 38:00 Final Takeaways and Conclusion

Transcript

Dr. William Attaway: 0:00

I'm thrilled today to have Manish Dudharejia on the podcast. Manish is the visionary founder of E2M, a bootstrapped digital marketing agency that he started with just $1,200. Under his leadership, E2M has flourished into a multimillion-dollar enterprise that specializes in providing white-label services to other digital agencies. What sets E2M apart is its astounding retention rates of over 90% for both clients and employees, a testament to the positive, transparent culture Manish has cultivated. His approach intertwines philosophy, psychology and spirituality, which he believes are crucial to personal and professional growth. After stepping back from day-to-day operations and embarking on a 90-day hiatus to reflect and recharge, Manish has gained invaluable insights. He's on a mission to teach other business owners how to achieve similar balance and success. Manish, I'm so glad you're here. Thanks for being on the show.

Manish Dudharejia: 1:10

Thank you, William. Thank you for having me on the show. Super excited to speak with you today.

Intro / Outro: 1:18

Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed to help leaders intentionally grow and thrive. Here is your host author and leadership and executive coach, dr William Attaway.

Dr. William Attaway: 1:35

Manish, I'd love to start with you sharing a little bit of your story with our listeners, particularly around your journey, your development as a leader. How did you get started?

Manish Dudharejia: 1:46

Yeah, I started originally my career in digital marketing back in 2007. And I worked for two different companies for five years, up until 2012. And I'm kind of a person who is a keen observer and always learn what not to do, and I think during those five years I learned a lot of things which I felt like this is not how organizations should run, this is not how the culture should be, this is not how the clients should be treated, and there were a lot of things which I learned what not to do, and I mean by no means you know, I'm saying that those were not great companies. Those companies were great. I learned personally a lot from those companies, but along with that, I learned a lot what not to do.

Manish Dudharejia: 2:36

And then, you know, kind of I became more of like pessimistic.

Manish Dudharejia: 2:40

I was like I don't think I'll be able to find a company where I can get everything what I'm looking for, what the brand should look like, how the people should be treated, how the culture should be and that led me to start E2M.

Manish Dudharejia: 2:56

So that's how it started. Let me create something where I can solve all the problems, and so the goal was to create a company where there is at most level of transparency when you are working with clients and the same level of transparency you maintain when you work with your employees as well, with your people as well, and you kind of create an environment where everyone is talking about the growth and you know the culture is where people love to work and people love to come every day. There is a freedom for people to speak on and yeah, and also clients kind of feel like, okay, we are being taken care of and you know there is a level of transparency which team is managing. So there are like multiple problems I was personally going through and then, you know, kind of tried to solve that With it too, and that's how the company was started. Never thought we will be at where we are today, but here we are.

Dr. William Attaway: 4:09

It's remarkable. I mean to build from $1,200 to a multimillion-dollar agency where you have hundreds of employees serving hundreds of clients. That's just remarkable. I'll tell you, the thing that stands out to me, Manish, is a retention rate above 90%. I mean that's impressive in any industry when you're talking about your employees, but for a retention rate above 90% for both employees and clients in the digital marketing space, I'm not sure I've heard of that before. Could you share some specific things, some strategies or practices that you have found most effective in achieving that type of retention?

Manish Dudharejia: 4:58

Yeah, no, that's a great question. You know, I think one of the things which helped me personally to retain, to build a culture and company in a way that we have the highest retention ratios of employees, of position of an employee, like, okay, if I were an employee, how would I think about this decision? Right? So that helped me a lot to make the right decision. Where you are kind of like you know people first company, where you think about people and making sure that you are creating, like you know, positive sum game. It's not like zero sum game where there is a win or lose, there is a win-win situation. Okay, we are making this decision for an organization. Does it make sense for our people? Okay, then the second question comes like does this make sense for our organization? Right, and if you develop that kind of like thought process, you will always end up making. Then the second question comes like does this make sense for our organization? Right? And if you develop that kind of like thought process, you will always end up making a really good policies, really good kind of like culture which will eventually lead towards the highest retention ratio. And the other thing you know, there is a framework in there is a very popular framework which I learned literally a few years back but unconsciously I was following ever since I started the company.

Manish Dudharejia: 6:36

The problem is there is a principal-agent problem. So what is the principal-agent problem? As a business owner, you are a principal and your people are agents, right, and what you are doing technically, you are bringing clients on board and you are putting your clients in. You are letting your agents, your people, solve your clients, right. So, as a principal, your goal is to make sure that your clients are happy. Your clients are retained, they are being served really, really well, whatever product or service you are selling, right? Essentially, if we talk more about service business, agency business is more around like service business, right? So, essentially, what you are doing as a principle, your goal is to retain your client and provide them the world class service. But what if your agents, your people, are not motivated? What if their goal is different? Right? So that's the biggest problem in, specifically in the service business and that's kind of a common problem in entire world, which is a principal agent problem.

Manish Dudharejia: 7:41

So, as an agency owner, your constant efforts must be towards solving this problem at your agency and how to solve this problem, making sure that the people you are working with. Their incentives are aligned with your incentives. So you have to clearly talk to your people that, hey, my goal, my incentive, is to make sure we are serving this client best and we want to retain this client and we are putting our brand reputation in your hands. You are serving our clients on behalf of our brand and on behalf of me. My intention is that the highest client success and highest client retention ratio and in return, you know, I wanted to make sure that your goals are achieved and they say, okay, I want to make sure I'm being compensated in the best way, what I deserve, and I'm getting the learning opportunities.

Manish Dudharejia: 8:38

There are two types of growth always people look for, which is a financial growth and knowledge growth, right? So you have to have that kind of conversation where the agents, your people, are getting a financial growth and knowledge growth. If they are not getting either of that, you will always end up getting in a problem where you are actually putting people, you're making people responsible. Well, their goal is different than your goal, right? So I would say you know, one of the key things is solving principal agent problem in order to make sure you have the highest client's retention ratio and I always give the best example, you know.

Manish Dudharejia: 9:25

Let's consider like an Uber right, uber is a principal, drivers are agent and let's say, me is a rider. So Uber's principle is to make sure that me, as a rider, always book an Uber and my experience is great, right. But what if drivers are not happy working at Uber? Right, and what is going to happen? Eventually I will not be having that kind of experience which Uber is anticipating and obviously next time I'm not going to rate that driver I might switch to Lyft next time when I'm booking a ride, right? So that's kind of a very, a very big problem you know the industry is having, specifically when you are growing really, really fast. So, as an agency owner, as a business owner, your goal must be solving the principal, urgent problem on a consistent basis in order to increase the highest employee's retention ratio.

Dr. William Attaway: 10:23

I think that's just brilliant, because you're focusing on your people. You're actually seeing them as 3D human beings, yes, and learning how to equip them and empower them and focus on their growth. That is not common. That is not common. It's something that I work with clients on, in leveraging the inherent relationship that you have as their employer. But most people are far more focused on the bottom line. They're far more focused on the profit than they are on the people. No-transcript.

Manish Dudharejia: 11:10

I was fortunate enough to learn a few things way earlier in my life, and because I'm coming from a very middle class background and I grew up in a very small city with limited resources. So you know, this is something I learned over the period of time where I learned this Zig Zagler's philosophy, way back before even I started E2M If you help enough people to get what they want, you will get everything what you want in your life right. So that kind of philosophy I live by even today as well. So if you just make sure what your people are getting and be transparent, sometimes, you know, we have had so many hard conversations where, if we are unable to fulfill what they are looking for, we'd rather ask them to leave because we don't want to be an obstacle in their growth. So sometimes people come to us that, hey, we want to learn this, this, this, and if that does not align with our business goals, we don't hold them. So we have, like you know, an open door policy where I tell everyone very openly that, hey, you must be working here if you really want to work here. If you feel like, if you don't want to work, come to me, have an open discussion, either I'll solve your problem or I'll let you go Right, like, if you don't want to work, come to me, have an open discussion. Either I'll solve your problem or I'll let you go right, but I don't want you to be in between, right? So we have, you know, yearly performance, uh, a review system twice a year where half people fall in april cycle, half people fall in, like you know, october cycle, and we never do this practice where in that period we tell them that hey, we are not going to give you the raise because you are not performing. We start talking with them like couple of months back, that hey, this is the problem. We are seeing where you have to. You know we are. Don't think we will be able to help you grow here. I don't think we'll be able to give you a raise. I don't think we'll be able to give you a raise. You'd rather find a new opportunity. Because we already tried giving them the feedback. Things didn't work out. So we kind of like make sure to follow that kind of transparency. So I think you know, in order to make sure that you are identifying the people, what you are looking for. So that starts with like interview process where you are looking for. So that starts with like interview process, where you are very transparent. Hey, this is what our business does. This is exactly what you do, right. So sometimes it happens.

Manish Dudharejia: 13:41

You know our main focus is wordpress development and a lot of like developers. They are, they feel like a formal right that, okay, there are so many new technologies out in the market, like React, node, python, and we want to learn that, and I tell them very openly that, hey, you know we are very much focused. We know what kind of market we are going after. You know almost like more than 50% of sites on the internet are powered by WordPress. We know what kind of like you know market we are going after. There are 55,000 agencies alone in the United States and we only work with, like you know, 300, 400 agencies, which means we haven't even, you know, tapped yet even like less than 1% market. So what we know what we have to do, right.

Manish Dudharejia: 14:24

So if you feel like you want to learn Python, this is not the right company for you. You know better. You find a new opportunity. So I think you know you have to start being so. I think you know you have to start being so much transparent with your people in terms of what they are going to do over here, what kind of growth they will be getting.

Manish Dudharejia: 14:40

And usually, uh, in my experience, I have seen that if you have been transparent from day one, uh, you will always have a highest retention ratio. And they, you have to show them that big kind of picture, right? You have to tell them the market size and everything. And the last thing I would say that you know, uh, I always love what simon snake says that you know you always look uh money as a commodity to help your people grow, not the other way around, right? A lot of people consider people as a commodity to help grow their money. I think that's the very wrong way. So I really like that Simon Sinek's philosophy Always look at money as a commodity to help your people.

Dr. William Attaway: 15:26

I think that's so healthy and so honoring to the people that you employ. Honoring to the people that you employ. Your retention process it sounds like it actually starts with the selection of the people that are going to be on your team. Retention starts with selection, and this is something that we talk about frequently. Is there a filter or a process that you use when you're looking for the right people? Because this is a struggle, I find, among entrepreneurs and agency owners in particular finding the right people for the team.

Manish Dudharejia: 16:00

That's a real struggle, that's absolutely a real struggle and that kind of led me a year back to make that decision that, okay, it's very hard, we have to grow fast. Okay, you know it's very hard, we have to grow fast and acquisition is the only way we can grow faster, right, so, although that was on my mind way back, that you know, personally I wanted always to take that kind of an experience to acquire a business and what it looks like, right, as an entrepreneur, you always look for new experiences, so that's definitely a challenge. You know, we recently acquired this business. So with that business we onboarded like 80 plus new team members. So that kind of solved the problem temporarily, know, filtration from their end.

Manish Dudharejia: 16:54

And then there are, like you know, a technical round happens where there is a technical interview is happening. Then there is a final round happen. So there are filtrations for sure, there is a process for sure, in order to make sure that we have the, you know, lowest churn rate. We kind of, like, you know, when we onboard people, we keep them on a probation period for first three months to make sure to kind of observe their performance and then, you know, we decide if you want to finalize them right. So there is a process, but, like you said, you know it is absolutely challenging and now we kind of started thinking about going hiring people remotely as well, because because it is already challenging, you know, specifically being the largest company in Ahmedabad in WordPress space, it's kind of getting very, very hard.

Dr. William Attaway: 17:44

You know, the merger that you were telling me about before we started recording is remarkable. It's a really big deal, and the fact that it took place right after you taken a 90-day break, a hiatus both of those are pretty bold moves. A merger of that size is a pretty big deal, and taking a 90-day break is something that I think a lot of the people listening to this can't imagine, because they are at the center of the spider web in their business. Everything connects to them, right. They're making way too many decisions. How did you prepare your team and your business to operate, for you to be out for 90 days?

Manish Dudharejia: 18:29

I think one of the things you know, a couple of things from my experience. I think one of the things, a couple of things from my experience when you are in a building stage, you always focus on making sure that you hire a generalist and then making sure that the generalist become eventually a part of your core leadership team and then when you're in a scaling stage, you hire a specialist who helps you to scale your business right. So in my case you know, coincidentally that happened. You know we have a core eight, nine people leadership team. When they were hired you know they were playing, they were hired for a certain role, but they have had that kind of like you know, traits of being a generalist and eventually those people will kind of like you know, uh, been a part of our core leadership team and then you know we started hiring a specialist team as well. So right now we have eight, nine people in our core leadership team. Then you know, rest of entire 300 people team is like uh structured under those uh, eight, nine people and it didn't happen overnight.

Manish Dudharejia: 19:37

You know, for 10 years uh, this is over 12 years of business, for 19 years I was involved into a lot of part right. But then I started learning that okay, uh, it is very important that you know I don't think that, uh, we'll be able to scale further if I'm involved into day-to-day, including sales as well. So I think two years back, I started doing that practice where I kind of identified the people who are the right people for that job and kind of, like you know, freed up my time and in order to do so, you know I have this. I learned this framework from Nawal Ravikant.

Manish Dudharejia: 20:23

You know, I don't know if you read him, but he has a lot of business philosophy wisdom, and he said that you know, whenever you are looking for an alternative for yourself, you always there is always out someone in the world who loves to do what you hate to do. That's right. So, not literally hate, hate. But imagine, you know, for 19 years I was doing sales operations and then, two years back, we have had, like you know, a couple of people in our leadership team and they actually, you know, were so much enthusiastic to take that role and I was like, ok, I'm done with that. I still love doing sales. I mean, I still love talking to people, I still do once in a while, but that's out of willingness, not out of obligation, right? So always find people who loves to do what you hate to do. So in that case, you are freeing up your time while making sure that you are not handing over responsibility to someone who is not capable to do so, right? Yes, yes.

Manish Dudharejia: 21:37

Then you know, we identified a person who was really good a fit for an operation, who has been here since a very, very long period of time, and ideally, what I did is, like you know, our entire leadership team got promoted internally. I did not hire anyone from an outside. So that is something I highly recommend because you know those people. That's a really good inspiration for your rest of the team members as well. That, hey, you know, if we have a potential, there are ways to grow right. So we recently promoted our team.

Manish Dudharejia: 22:11

We recently, you know, one of our core leadership team members. She joined six years back in sales. From there, you know, she was adding, like you know, she became like VP of sales and customer services and you know, earlier this work, we promoted her to a COO. She's going to be a chief operating officer. So in six years, if you see the journey from a salesperson to COO, she's going to be a chief operating officer. So in six years, if you see the journey from a salesperson to COO, that's kind of an inspiration for other.

Manish Dudharejia: 22:39

And same happened for a guy who was joined 10 years back, who was looking for IT infrastructure, server security, and now we promoted him to a CIO and CTO level. So that's what I would highly recommend. And one thing you need to make sure that when you do this exercise, you free up your time handing over sales, operation, finance, hr, it. Then you do the same exercise with your core leadership team eventually as well, because then they are also looking for a new role as well, right? So you have to keep that wheel spinning in order to make sure that people keep getting new opportunities.

Dr. William Attaway: 23:23

Manish, That's fascinating and, I think, so inspiring. I believe that elevating people from within, pouring into and investing in your team, communicates so much value, right Beyond just what they do today, but the potential you see in them for tomorrow, for the days and years to come. That is so valuable and I believe that is a huge component to your retention. One of the things that I read earlier in your bio was that your approach intertwines philosophy, psychology and spirituality. Now, that's an interesting combination. Can you talk about that for just a minute?

Manish Dudharejia: 25:33

I was six, seven years back, you know I was kind of going through a very hard time. I was kind of going through a severe depression. The business wasn't doing it right, and back then, you know, I was trying to understand everything like why this happened. So when you know, I'm more of a like, I have a problem-solving mindset and that's very natural in entrepreneurs, where they run into any problem and they always start thinking about the solution. So when I was going through a very hard time, personally I kind of like instead of, like you know, ignoring that, I became more curious that, okay, let me more understand about depression, what?

Dr. William Attaway: 26:19

is depression.

Manish Dudharejia: 26:20

Why do we feel like that right, and how do you run business when, uh, you are going? Personally, you are going through a hard time, and that led me toward like, okay, okay, there are mind thoughts, emotion. That led me towards the spirituality and that led me towards the philosophy. That led me toward like how our minds work, psychology and I started learning more about, like, mental model frameworks because, you know, I wanted to make sure that, okay, I wanted to make the all right decision back in 2018, we were only like 30, 40 people and uh, you know, I was like okay, and I made a lot of mistakes previously, 2016, we were 120.

Manish Dudharejia: 27:01

We scaled back to 40 people because I didn't know how to make the right decisions. So it's just like, you know, out of curiosity and out of that fire, then you start learning everything by yourself and then you start, you know, mixing up everything and one thing led to another thing, another led to another thing and that's how and I feel like you know, any great CEOs I don't think the great CEOs can make any decisions without philosophy. Any great CEOs must learn philosophy. They must be understanding how you know human psychology. They must be understanding the philosophy of our metaphysics work right In order to you know make the right decisions. So I think you know that's kind of must.

Manish Dudharejia: 27:56

It all came out of curiosity and out of the need, but yeah, that's how I kind of ended up getting into it. And still it's a learning process. I still keep learning more and more about it. But it's kind of fascinating because eventually you know, regardless of the product or service or regardless of the business you are doing, eventually you are going to work with human beings. That's right, and if you, the more and more you learn about human beings you know. It would make it more easy for you, as a leader, to deal with them and making sure that you know you are making the right decisions.

Dr. William Attaway: 28:35

So true, so good, and I want to spotlight something here that I know our listeners have picked up on, Manish, and that is your teachable spirit. You are that curiosity that you described. You are constantly learning, you are constantly growing and that, I believe, is a huge inspiration to your team. You've alluded to this at a couple of points in our conversation, but I want to dial it in for a second. You know your team needs you to lead at a higher level today than they did five years ago, and three years, four years, five years from now, they're going to need you to lead at a yet higher level than where you are today. How do you stay on top of your game? How do you level up with new leadership and mindset skills that you will need to lead at that level when your team, your company and your clients need you to be there?

Manish Dudharejia: 29:30

I think the most important thing which I learned that a process is people you need for a 10 people company want to work for 100 people. Processing people for 100 people won't work for 200. And then that goes on right. So if you understand that, okay, you are always ready for your next thing. So, for instance, it is called a second order thinking.

Manish Dudharejia: 29:59

Second order thinking in philosophy sorry, it's a psychology is more about like you are thinking about the consequences of an action you are taking today, rather than you get fascinated about or you celebrate taking an action right. So, uh, you know, when we are doing this merger and equation, we knew we are growing from 200 to 300 people. So the very first thing you know comes to my mind what would we need to change at company level in order to scale further, from 300 to 400? So what are the things we have to immediately change in order to make sure that we operate seamlessly, literally from next week, because we are adding like 100 new people, literally from next week, because we are adding like 100 new people. So I think you have to develop that second order thinking.

Manish Dudharejia: 30:55

And what do I have to do to upgrade myself? And the easiest way is to learning from others' mistakes. So I kind of read the companies who have gone through hard times, who have kind of made it huge, and I listen to some of the great podcasts as well mainly around, like you know, entrepreneurs podcasts who have kind of done it previously. So you constantly try to learn from others' mistakes in order to make sure you exactly don't repeat the same mistake.

Manish Dudharejia: 31:26

And also, you know, you kind of be mentally prepared that hey, there is nothing called perfect, right. So, even as on today, if someone is coming from an outside and taking the CEO role, that person will file 100 things to improve. And I know that, right, and I know that thing.

Dr. William Attaway: 32:03

And I know that thing right and I know that thing. So you always be ready that okay. You know we have to be intentional, you have to be purposeful. The books that you're reading, the podcasts that you're listening to Is there a book that you would recommend from your reading, that if a listener has not read this book, you would say, oh, you've got to put this on your list. This made a big difference in my journey.

Manish Dudharejia: 32:28

I would say a couple of things, a couple of books. Which is like the one I read a few years back, how Rich People Think that's the one. The other thing is, you know other Atomic Habits by James Clear Highly recommended. So good. Netflix Culture and Code. It talks a lot about. Like you know how to deliver feedback to your team and how to build a great culture.

Manish Dudharejia: 32:56

The other thing you know, I highly recommend that Almanac of Naval Ravikant, which is kind of like a collection of his all five, six years tweets. But a lot of wisdom around like philosophy, psychology, mental model frameworks. But a lot of wisdom around like philosophy, psychology, mental model frameworks, business, you know, growing business, becoming rich and everything. Recently I completed like a book by Basecamp's founder, jason, which is Rework. So these are the great books which kind of helped me a lot to learn a lot of new things.

Dr. William Attaway: 33:32

That's fantastic. I haven't. I haven't read that. That last one, the the almanac. I'll have to check that one out.

Manish Dudharejia: 33:37

Yeah, it's almanac of novel.

Dr. William Attaway: 33:41

Excellent. We'll have links to these in the show notes. You mentioned podcasts as well. Is there a podcast or two that you think, man, this is? This is made a difference in what I've learned by listening to this.

Manish Dudharejia: 33:54

My first million, which is like hustle, which now got acquired by HubSpot. So my first million is a great podcast I highly recommend. There is a knowledge podcast by Shan Paris recommend there is a the Knowledge podcast by Sean Perry's, furnham Street. The guy is from Canada and he talks a lot about mental model framework and his podcast name is the Knowledge podcast. And then the third one is Lanny's podcast. That's the very popular one as well. There's into you all the popular like entrepreneurs and Lex Friedman. Yes, his podcast is also really, really good.

Dr. William Attaway: 34:40

So good, Manish, I want to take you back to when you first started your agency, when you were coming from being an employee to now being the leader. If you could go back and talk to that Manish, given what you know today, and you could tell that person one thing, what would you love to go back and tell yourself?

Manish Dudharejia: 35:06

Focus. I think we we have so many distractions, right. You look at the social media, look at, like you know, what's happening in the technology world Right now. There is a huge FOMO in AI, right, and which is great. You know, amazing, amazing technologies are getting out of you know AI. So I would say, focus, you know, pick one industry, pick one skill and you just become the best at that skill and then start selling that skill to one industry. So, and you look at, like you know, before picking your industry, look at the TAM, which is Total Addressable Market, and imagine, you know we started this agency focus just like although we were serving agencies from day one, but for first five, six years, that wasn't like just a focus, we were serving, like every and any client b2c b2b agencies.

Manish Dudharejia: 36:18

uh, 2019 was the time five, six years, five years back we decided that we will only serve agencies right and that focus helped us a lot to grow and scale where we are today. So I would say, like you know, just be focused on one niche Like that's always a debate in agency world, right, whether it should be, like you know, cater to any and every client or we should just go after just one niche. So I would say, like you know, go after one niche, and that will help you to be very much focused and grow really, really fast.

Dr. William Attaway: 37:00

Manish, this has been so fascinating and I would just love to talk to you for another hour and glean insights from your journey, because you, you have learned a ton so far. If you could boil all this down to one idea that you would love for listeners to walk away with, one big takeaway, what would you like for that to be?

Manish Dudharejia: 37:25

The one one thing I would say, like you know, the one one thing I I would say, like you know uh, be obsessed about freeing up your time as a, as an agency owner, as a business owner. Uh, I understand, not possible for people who are just starting it up, but that's what your eventual goal should be obsessed about freeing up your time right, and that is the only way you will be able to grow and think about other things right. And when you become free eventually, you know, you will run into a situation where you will get in a boredom stage, but remember that boredom will lead to the creativity and that creativity leads to you know again productivity. So be obsessed about freeing up your time. The second thing is about that we human beings are not wired to work Monday to Friday, 9 to 5. Our minds are not wired like that, so that's right. Our minds are not wired like that, so that's right.

Manish Dudharejia: 38:27

If any given day, you don't feel like working, don't feel regret at the end of day that you didn't accomplish anything, but that's. You always remember this lion framework which I learned. Again, it's a part of my philosophy. In psychology. The lion framework is kind of like you know, a lion's framework is like sprint, rest, repeat. So always act like lion, think like lion. If you see the life cycle of lion, they will kind of hunt for you know 24 hours, then you know they will rest for 24 hours and that's how their life cycle is. So I still work like 18, 20 hours a day, but you know, when I'm super, super inspired, so sprint, rest, repeat.

Manish Dudharejia: 39:16

So if any given day you feel like I don't feel like working, that's okay. Just like you know, do something which you really like go out for a walk, go out for a run, if you want to read a book, if you want to play a guitar. I know that's not a luxury, everyone would have so, but then when you are inspired, you know you just work like a life. So I still like work. One or two days where I work like 18, 20 hours a day, although I am like not involved in today, today, but you don't feel like you know. So ideas do not limit themselves. You know, even like when you are in, in, you are enjoying your weekend. Some of the ideas might strike during the weekend, just take a note, that's okay. And during the weekdays, some of the days you don't feel like working, that is absolutely fine.

Dr. William Attaway: 40:06

I love that rhythm. I think that's so healthy, so good. Manish, thank you for being so generous today with what you've learned so far and sharing that with our listeners. I know folks are going to want to stay connected to you and continue to learn from you and about E2M. What is the best way for them to do that?

Manish Dudharejia: 40:29

I'm more active on LinkedIn and Twitter. So if you search my name, Manish , even in Google, you'll find my LinkedIn profile, twitter profile. I would love to you know Twitter now it's X. I would love to connect there. And you know, our company website is E2msolutions. com, where two is a numeric two. And yeah, I'm more active on my email address it's manish at e2msolutions. com. So if you are an agency owner, business owner, if you ever want to catch up and if you need any kind of help, I'd be love to get on the call Because I always love to talk with like-minded Manish.

Dr. William Attaway: 41:13

If you need any kind of help, I'd be love to get on the call, you know, because always, like, always, love to talk with like minded Manish. Thank you, this has been so helpful and I can't wait to share this episode with our listeners.

Manish Dudharejia: 41:19

Thank you, William. Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure speaking with you.

Dr. William Attaway: 41:26

Thanks for joining me for this episode today. As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode, and if you find value here, I'd love it if you would rate it and review it. That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast. Second, if you don't have a copy of my newest book to discover this podcast. Second, if you don't have a copy of my newest book, catalytic Leadership, I'd love to put a copy in your hands. If you go to catalyticleadershipbookcom, you can get a copy for free. Just pay the shipping so I can get it to you and we'll get one right out.

Dr. William Attaway: 42:02

My goal is to put this into the hands of as many leaders as possible. This book captures principles that I've learned in 20 plus years of coaching leaders in the entrepreneurial space, in business, government, nonprofits, education and the local church. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about. If you're ready to take a next step with a coach to help you intentionally grow and thrive as a leader, I'd be honored to help you. Just go to catalyticleadershipnet to book a call with me Stay tuned for our next episode next week. Until then, as always, leaders choose to be catalytic.

Intro / Outro: 42:46

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