How to Transform Workplace Culture: Essential Insights Leaders Need with Gilda VanderHeyden

Can effective leadership truly transform workplace culture? Join me as we welcome Gilda VanderHeyden, founder of the Nonprofit Path, to share her journey from the insurance industry to becoming an executive coach. Gilda delves into what genuine leadership means, emphasizing connection, acceptance, and unleashing individual potential in today's fast-evolving work landscape.

Together, we uncover actionable insights into hybrid work-life balance strategies that elevate productivity and job satisfaction. By integrating employee feedback and granting autonomy, companies can cultivate an engaging workplace culture. Real-life examples from small associations illustrate the iterative approach to hybrid work models, highlighting both their benefits and challenges.

Explore the profound impact of intentional relationship-building, whether at home or in the office. Gilda emphasizes the significance of deliberate, meaningful interactions and understanding emotional needs to foster a supportive workplace culture. Leaders will learn crucial strategies for building trust and enhancing communication, vital for navigating burnout and micromanagement in nonprofit leadership.

This conversation provides essential insights into transforming workplace culture through effective leadership and intentional practices. It equips leaders with practical tools to cultivate a healthier, more cohesive organizational environment.

Books Mentioned:

• Five Love Languages by Dr. Gary Chapman
  
  
• Can't Hurt Me by David Goggins
  
  
• Catalytic Leadership: 12 Keys to Becoming an Intentional Leader Who Makes a Difference by Dr. William

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Gilda VanderHeyden
• 2:39 The Qualities of Effective Leaders
• 8:19 Creating Hybrid Models for Flexibility
• 11:26 Intentionality and Building Strong Relationships
• 26:30 Personal Growth and Leadership Development
• 29:08 Building Trust and Asking for Help
• 39:45 Choosing New Responses for a Better Life

Transcript

Dr. William Attaway: 0:00

It is so great to have on the podcast today.

Dr. William Attaway: 0:03

Gilda is the founder and chief resilience officer of the Nonprofit Path, an executive coaching and consultancy practice focused on helping purpose-driven organizations create healthier, happier workplaces from the inside out. She customizes her approach to each client's needs, applying a unique blend of coaching and mindset, work for the inner game and practical strategies for everyday challenges. Together with their clients, they're able to build and sustain a collaborative way of working to attract and retain top talent, turbocharging the impact of their mission. As a dynamic speaker, Gilda shares her invaluable insights on work-life balance, burnout prevention and increasing resilience to audiences nationwide. She also conducts trainings on effective communication, trust-building and psychological safety and other relevant topics to support her individual and organizational clients in finding healthier ways to work together on a professional and personal level. When she's not helping teams thrive, you can find her hiking to waterfalls, exploring new eats with her family, or learning the next business or self-improvement concept and hanging out with her yellow lab Murphy. Gilda, I'm so glad you're here. Thanks for being on the show.

Gilda VanderHeyden: 1:24

Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here.

Intro / Outro: 1:30

Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed to help leaders intentionally grow and thrive. Here is your host author and leadership and executive coach, dr William Attaway and executive coach, dr William Attaway.

Dr. William Attaway: 1:54

Gilda, we've known each other for a while and I would love for you to share a little bit of your story with our listeners, particularly around your journey and your development as a leader. How did this whole thing get started?

Gilda VanderHeyden: 2:02

I was actually in the insurance industry for quite some time and I was really a little bit, you know, love working with clients, still love working with clients. But did I want to do insurance for the rest of my life? Not really. Something inside was really calling and saying, hey, you got to do something else. And so when COVID hit, that was really my wake up call. And so when COVID hit, that was really my wake up call and I ended up doing a crash course on life coaching of all things and realized, wait, there's a way to actually read, learn, understand personal development, apply it in my own life and use it to help others improve theirs. So that was kind of the start of my journey and so had a little bit of the entrepreneurship type of setup.

Gilda VanderHeyden: 2:46

On the insurance side I've been under other leaders as well as now the coaching I'm doing with leaders now in terms of inspiring and helping to motivate them. I would just share, I guess, a couple of things I learned along the way in terms of really what makes the difference between an effective and an ineffective leader, and really it boils down to getting much more further away from the command and control style of authoritative leadership and really focusing on four main areas, which I found to be the difference between those that were very effective and successful and those that were not. And the first part of that was just having a connection with the other individual, whether it's a peer, someone who's under you or even above you, having a deep connection with them and an actual understanding of their values, their beliefs, where they're operating from. And then the second component was really fully accepting wherever that other person is. And that's a tough one, because we all want to improve everything, including other people and ourselves, but that's one of the first things. I think that ineffective leaders try to do a lot and it doesn't go very well, right? So, um, then the third part, which almost sounds related to the second, but it's different, because acceptance is one thing, that's, that's step number two but the third part being 110% belief in that other person and their potential and what they're capable of. And again, that's an area I see lacking, just because the mindset of the ineffective leader is more about everything around me, and everyone around me needs to change in order for this to work, and that's again where you're not finding any progress.

Gilda VanderHeyden: 4:43

And then the fourth piece being, once you believe in their potential. You're really giving them a little bit more. I would say a walkway, so to speak, or pathway of giving some slack, in other words, for letting them be able to do what they need to do. But you're now, as a leader, supporting them in a trusted advisor role or simply providing them, you know, asking them what they need, what tools they need and, most importantly, guiding them by asking them the right questions so that that individual can come up with their own solution. Because, as you know, when it's that other person's idea, they're much more likely to implement and, you know, really move it forward, versus if it's your idea and you're just telling them to do it. So that's the things I think I learned the most along that journey.

Dr. William Attaway: 5:42

You know it's interesting so many people had different experiences during the pandemic. Covid really stirred up a lot of things and a lot of people. One thing that I'm hearing a lot, and I'm guessing you might be as well, is the importance of work-life balance. This is something that you talk a lot about. Why do you think COVID really stirred that topic up so much?

Gilda VanderHeyden: 6:08

Honestly, with COVID it was, I think, in a way, a forced wake-up call for a lot of people not just for myself in that it really made you realize, wow, life is short and is this really the way I want to live my life? And I think that's the biggest question it sparked in a lot of people. And you know you saw folks no longer working with companies that didn't support that work-life balance or work-life harmony or integration or whatever you call it, and you know those companies are suffering and continue to suffer because they're not able to keep that top talent. But I would just say it was really for everyone a reality shift where they got so wrapped up in COVID and all the negative that if you didn't get beyond it and ask yourself that question, then some of those folks unfortunately missed the train on it. I would say it's never too late.

Gilda VanderHeyden: 7:16

Things like the work you're doing and other areas people derive their inspiration from can still spark some different changes and things of that nature. But I would say that would be the biggest thing in terms of oh, wow, this is interesting. And then it got, on the organizational level, a lot of leaders to rethink gee, wow, my people are really burned out and it's not sustainable for us as an organization. It's not sustainable for us as an organization, for me as a leader, for my team, and so I did see an uptick in demand about people wanting to have more solutions around.

Gilda VanderHeyden: 7:54

How do we prevent burnout, how do we get to more balance? And, as you know, you know it's such an overused term that I don't really think it's that typical, you know, person with a scale of here's work, here's personal and trying to balance it all. It's much more of an iterative process where it's flowing together and they're they're they're mixing and meshing and you just really have to be intentional about where you're spending your time, your energy, and you know your energy and you know your focus and and and kind of creating from there what does an ideal balance type of life look like for myself personally and those around me?

Dr. William Attaway: 8:42

You know, on this side of the pandemic we have seen a lot of those companies that at first were willing to let people have a little more balance, but they're now instituting many of them these return to office mandates and they're losing that top talent that you're talking about because people are choosing and saying, no, I prefer the balance to working at this company where I may have been for many years, sometimes decades. Do you think that's short-sighted on the part of these companies to try to force people into a paradigm that is not good for them long-term?

Gilda VanderHeyden: 9:17

That's a very interesting question and I would say that's definitely one perspective in terms of the short-sightedness potential there. But I would say, more than anything, I think companies and organizations that are much more in tune with their staff and invite them into the conversation are really what matters in situations like this, because some cultures are a little bit more hey, depending on the nature of the work like a lot of attorney's offices. They like to be in the office. It's kind of how they run and that's fine for maybe an attorney, but maybe a psychologist or other kind of IT company. They have different ways of working and I think if leaders just sort of decide and don't ask at least for input, I mean at the end of the day it might still be that leader's decision. But just even that asking of it and considering what's important to the staff and integrating that feedback into the decision-making, I think is what makes a big difference.

Gilda VanderHeyden: 10:28

And in fact there's one association, a leader I'd interviewed a while back on a work-life balance type of a YouTube type of theme, and essentially he that was one of the things they did is they asked their people first.

Gilda VanderHeyden: 10:43

And the thing that was interesting is they they treated it like an experiment. So first round was not going to be perfect and he told everybody that, which was great. And then they kept iterating and and making it better and adding tweaks and until now I think it was took them probably at least 18 months, maybe over maybe almost two years, to really kind of come up with hey, this is what it looks like here and, interestingly enough, it and their retention rate was super high and in fact, the only real reasons people were retiring or sorry, what were real reasons people were leaving were things like for retirement or like a spouse had a transfer of their job. Not the actual employee or the staff member was fantastic, and they had a lot of folks knocking at the door wanting to be part of their organization, just being a small association, and so I think that makes a huge difference.

Dr. William Attaway: 11:43

You know, I think there's so much value communicated when you do ask the question, you know, and you open a dialogue instead of just making a dictate from on high, that command and control structure that you were describing earlier. I think there's so much value that you give to people when you say, hey, what do you think what is best for you, what do you think is best for the organization and what we're trying to accomplish. I just think there's so much value communicated when you ask the question and truly listen. And one thing I watched is the difference between the companies and the leaders that would do that and the ones who just said no, we're going to do it the way we've always done it.

Gilda VanderHeyden: 12:24

Yeah, those are the ones that I think are suffering. And you know, I can see that the hybrid model where you have a combination of maybe not in the office every day, but a few days a week especially when it's purposeful and I think those kinds of models are pretty effective where it's all right is there a mode where we can brainstorm together, collaborate in some way. And, hey, it's very intentional that when you come in, it's not just bodies sitting at a cubicle or at a desk doing their work because, hey, you got to be in the office a few days a week. No, it's.

Gilda VanderHeyden: 13:00

This is the time for us to work together, work through different issues, challenges, do all that great work where you don't get that same dynamic at home, to have that individual flexibility to figure, you know, get doing errands, taking kids around, all that other stuff that gets in the way, and that, because of COVID, we're so sort of spoiled that, oh, wow, this is how much stuff you can get done.

Gilda VanderHeyden: 13:28

And it's kind of a funny thing because I know there were two sides to the coin with that where I had one guy one of my workshops that was saying, well, yeah, I love working from home, but the only issue is now that I'm at home and if I want lunch it's a whole hour later because I decided to cook my lunch and clean up and everything. So there's that part of it where the others are like, hey, I could throw the laundry in, pick up the kids and then, once they're in bed, come back and work some more and I'm good. And I think that when you give people that freedom and autonomy to do it on their own time, I mean you get way tenfold or more the level of productivity or the quality of work.

Dr. William Attaway: 15:54

It's seeing them as actual 3D human beings, instead of just cogs in the machine of the organization, instead of just seeing them for what they do. You're seeing them as actual people. By asking their what do you think? By asking that simple question, it adds so much value. I watch this and one thing that I'm curious about have you seen with the people who are doing hybrid and our team does hybrid there's things that we can only do in person. We try to leverage that time and there are things that we do really well remotely. We try to leverage that time and try to get the best of both. But do you find that people who have transitioned from an office or a very concrete this is work, this is home to working from home part or most of the time? Do you find that they have a more difficult time with balance because they're always at work.

Gilda VanderHeyden: 16:48

Yes, yes, interesting. Well, you know, it's funny because I was talking to another gentleman who, uh, is very much and I think it's also an individual preference too, because I know some people really prefer strongly to be at home because they've got nobody's looking over their shoulder and they love it and they can just do it on their own time. But I also have met other folks that, like this gentleman who he has, I think their office is a hybrid where they can go in a few days and stay at home a few days. But he says I don't want to be at home, I don't get anything done, stay at home a few days. But he says I don't want to be at home, I don't get anything done, and I would much prefer to go in the office, do my thing and then when I come back I'm at home, all the work is stays at the office. So some people really prefer that and I would say the balance piece is kind of fascinating. Just because the folks that are preferring the working from home and I got to be, I got to be honest, I admit I'm I've had this struggle myself personally where sometimes the lack of the boundaries of the office like I have a physical office that I'm I'm in now, I mean, unless I'm shutting down my laptop and making rules for myself of like, hey, don't check the computer after dinner, right, it's so easy to get pulled back in and not even have your balance, even if you're working from home. So I think it really comes back to intentionality of what do you actually want your work and your life to look like, actually want your work and your life to look like? And hey, you might be used to certain ways, but taking, you know, even 20, 30 minutes to jot down and really think through what it is you want. Obviously there are going to be work projects that are going to have certain deadlines and certain things, but you know even the kind of work you're doing. Do you want more client facing work or is that? Are you? Is that satisfying to you in terms of your, your, your life purpose? And if not, maybe that's a discussion you have with your boss and other department heads to figure out where you fit in. And and same with the family side of you know some folks are just.

Gilda VanderHeyden: 19:07

I remember coaching an association leader, who she was. She had young kids and it was just so stressful for her because she's trying to do her work. They're on the playground and she's on her phone and you know, I know one of the things we had talked about that I think I recall from the conversation that was most helpful to her was just the idea of you don't have to have these big, grand plans of doing these amazing trips with your kids or your family or any of that stuff. When you're with your kids or your loved ones, how are they feeling, what is their perception of you, when you're interacting and connecting? I think that's the most important part, because sometimes people are stuck from like an eight to five or really vigorous schedule and they just can't. They can't break away and maybe the work is so demanding that they can't.

Gilda VanderHeyden: 20:03

But two things I would say. One is remembering that it's taking just a small moment it can only be a minute or two where you're paying your full attention to that child or teen and and it's or you know, you're making dates with them, like I texted my older daughter and said hey, you know, after school, do you want to go grab a Starbucks today? Oh, I have this other thing, my friends, but yeah, how about after? You know so different little things like that Um, and I'd say um. Now the second one's kind of slipping, but uh, but really it's just you, you don't have to make these big gestures. It could be moments, and oh, I do remember one another example, though. One was um.

Gilda VanderHeyden: 20:48

One woman was stressed about her.

Gilda VanderHeyden: 20:51

I think her little her son was always wanting to play games and she's like always on her phone or always checking her laptop or all this stuff when he was doing it.

Gilda VanderHeyden: 20:58

And she said one day she just decided she's just going to play with him and it was only literally maybe seven minutes of playing with him with whatever board game they had. And he made some comment like wow, mommy, I, I, that was really fun and I I don't know what it was, but it was like the actual time it took to to play the game with him was minimal and she just realized, if she just was more present, he realized and felt like very loved, like mommy really loves me and cares about me. And that's all you really need to do is kind of intentionally think about like what's meaningful to that other person and how can I make? I think that's a key question, how can I make this person feel seen, heard and understood and you can. If you start to ask yourself that question with everyone you're interacting with, whether it's your family member, a coworker, any team members below you, anything that's a huge game changer.

Dr. William Attaway: 21:58

A hundred percent agree. That is such an incredible leadership principle that, no matter where you lead, no matter how you lead, whatever size of the team or the organization, if you can implement that in your leadership, that's a game changer. 100% agree, absolutely. As you talk about balance, as you talk about all of these different things, do you get pushback at all from people who maybe don't see, I don't know, I don't know if I need that? Do you ever get pushback on this?

Gilda VanderHeyden: 22:31

I do get some pushback with the term work-life balance, and I get it because it's been overused. I remember talking to one client who said huh, balance, oh, does that even exist? And that got me kind of like thinking like that.

Gilda VanderHeyden: 22:44

That's a good question. The way he put that and and you know kind of like I was I was talking about earlier it's, it's, it's, it's like a fluid type of work in progress that you're molding and creating and iterating a lot, yes, to figure out what's going to work. And it's, yeah, I would say that intention, intentionality is super, super important, because I mean, I even find myself I'll slip, like even before thinking of that with my daughter. Even just yesterday there was, I felt there was a little bit of like disconnect and I'm like, no, if it's helpful. Um, I know one book that helped change a lot of our relationships with just our family and anyone around us and you've probably read it already is the Five Love Languages book. Such a great book.

Gilda VanderHeyden: 23:37

And so the reason I mention that is just because in our household we talk about buckets like emotional buckets or bank accounts kind of like they do in the book, and essentially I won't go into too much, but there's like five love languages, things like words of affirmation or quality time, those kinds of gifts, all those kinds of things, and so everyone has all five and basically people have one or two primary ones and if you don't focus on that one, they don't feel loved and cared about, and so we've taught that in our own household. And so I remember this was maybe only a month ago with that same older daughter who I asked her. I was like, hey, what's going on? And again I felt a disconnect.

Gilda VanderHeyden: 24:21

And these are good, the disconnects are. Remember, it's just data, it's just information. So try, I'd say in the past, myself and clients would sort of get all wrapped up in the story like, oh, being such a bad parent, like all these terrible things or whatever, Don't go there, Don't beat yourself up. I mean it happens, so think of it as data information coming in. It happens, so think of it as data information coming in and you, you get to choose how, what you're going to do with it.

Gilda VanderHeyden: 24:48

And so basically in that conversation she said, yeah, I basically, mom, I think my bucket is getting low. And I was like, wow, I mean some of the stuff we've been sharing as his sort of um, it influenced him a little. And so when yesterday I felt that disconnect, I'm thinking, huh, I'm wondering if the bucket's getting a little. And so when yesterday I felt that disconnect, I'm thinking, huh, I'm wondering if the bucket's getting a little low, because there was just not the same dynamic and it wasn't intentional. She's busy, I get busy, stuff happens. But again, if you don't come back to the intentionality of it, as well as maybe even the practical side of putting in your calendar, if you can't do it once a week, maybe every two weeks, every three weeks, or use that data that comes in as your indicator. Ooh, hmm, it doesn't quite feel right. Let me do something about that.

Dr. William Attaway: 25:37

But you have to actually know what their bucket is.

Gilda VanderHeyden: 25:41

Oh, yes, yes, and in fact they have a quiz on his, on his website. Um, that you can. It's Dr Gary Chapman, if I'm not mistaken, is the author, but he, if you don't know, they have quiz, a quiz you can take to find out what your love language. You can have your, your spouse, your kids, anybody, a coworker, take it to see where they're at and it'd be fun dialogue just to talk about it. But, yeah, you can find out from there and they have a description of all the different kinds of love language and it'll make more sense when you read it. But that has been just really has enhanced every single relationship we've had, when we apply and remember to apply it.

Dr. William Attaway: 26:19

And there's the key right. Exactly that's so good. You are continually learning and continually growing, and your family, your business, your clients they're all going to need you to lead at a higher level a year, three years, five years from now than where you are today. How do you stay on top of your game? How do you level up with the new leadership skills and development that you're going to need in order to lead at those higher levels?

Gilda VanderHeyden: 26:52

Yeah, I would say I'm constantly actually a lifelong learner, like yourself. So whether it's podcasts or books or seminars, I mean oftentimes a lot of my clients. They'll see my ad or reply responders like I'm away for a conference or seminar or whatever that is. So that's one piece of it, but I would say the part that I find is very interesting and this was just a recent insight is that the kind of coaching and support that I help clients with. If you haven't personally gone through something that you've come out on the other side to help help provide the perspective, the experience and the support, it's a definite new level that you can really help support clients on. And I'm finding that once I go through some of these internal really the inner work side for myself, that helps me be a better coach and that helps me really have much better outcomes for my clients as well.

Gilda VanderHeyden: 28:06

So I would say, doing the work on yourself and remembering hey again, giving yourself grace that it is a work in progress. None of us are perfect. It's going to constantly be that way, but each step of the way you can then lift someone else up to maybe something that you learned. That's helpful and it's also a fun dialogue, because I'm constantly learning from my clients as well, different things that they're sharing and that they've overcome to also, you know, not have to go through it yourself. So I think that piece, the inner work yourself, is the biggest, most challenging part, right, and I think one of the reasons we're all here, right, but doing that piece first is, I think, critical to then going to the next level in your leadership and your development.

Dr. William Attaway: 28:58

That's really insightful. You have to go through it before you can help somebody else. I think that's super helpful and that, I think, explains why so many people who are in helping professions like we are. We've been through challenging times, we've been through seasons that have been incredibly difficult and we want to help other people navigate those and maybe avoid some of the ditches that we drove into. Some of the people listening may look at you, Gilda, and may say drove into you know, some of the people listening may look at you, Gilda, and may say, oh man, her life has just been up and to the right. Like she hasn't really had any of the challenges that I've had as an entrepreneur. Like she hasn't had the struggles that I've had as a business owner. If they were to say that to you in person, what would your response be?

Gilda VanderHeyden: 29:42

Oh, that's, that's, that's uh, that's a good one. It's really kind of like every challenge after challenge after challenge, I think is is what what most people's life um really isn't, and they all at all different levels. Uh, you know, um, I, being someone that likes to learn so much, sometimes I get to a point where I'll read more than one book. So one book I remember was one written by David Goggins the Navy Seal and his struggle. I mean, oh, my goodness, he talked about powerhouse, or if you think about Oprah or Tony Robbins, where they came from such humble beginnings and it's like, look in in comparison like our lives, look like nothing compared, you know, but look at what the level of growth and who they are now today um is is just astounding and and inspiring. So, um, yeah, I mean I, I would say I, I was, I didn't, I didn't have one of those kinds of stories where major trauma, and I really admire folks that because it gives them so much inner resilience and power to be able to deal with the challenges that they have today. But I would say it doesn't really matter where you are. I think the biggest, the biggest things that make um a difference, and in terms of not only personal change, but just even in the world around you, is really all mindset, types of work, of the way you're looking at a situation or, even if you don't have a new way, at least pausing and thinking, giving yourself space to think about it and get a different perspective.

Gilda VanderHeyden: 31:39

Maybe talking to you know yourself and you know digital entrepreneurs saying gosh, I'm struggling with this and I just can't get around it. Maybe there's a block. Well, reach out to William. He's got not only the knowledge and the know-how but the experience working with other clients that might copy and paste and apply to your situation that you would not ever think about.

Gilda VanderHeyden: 32:02

Because the way I like to describe what we do is you know, your life is like a prescription bottle, but you're on the inside and the labels on the outside. No matter how you try, you're just not going to get on the outside, outside of the bottle, to look and see what the label says. And having that other perspective to help you figure out what's next or what do I need to focus on, what do I need to tweak to get to where I want to go? That's really what it's all about and I think, yeah, and I don't remember the beginning of your question, but I think it's all good stuff and that just helps you, oh yeah, in terms of, yeah, having it figured out, or or again, there are other other resources you can tap into to to really not necessarily give up and, you know, just say, look, everybody's got these, these.

Dr. William Attaway: 33:21

Um, I'll find a way might not be today, um and give yourself that, that that break to allow your brain to work on it and and ask for other help because help is available absolutely, and I love that you said that, because I think that that so often, particularly in the entrepreneurial world, people are so insistent and so focused on doing it all themselves. Yes, right, I can do it, I don't need help, I'm not going to ask for help. Every one of us asks for help. Anybody that, you see, is not just doing everything all by themselves.

Dr. William Attaway: 33:52

There are people behind the scenes that they have asked hey, can you help me? I just did this earlier today. I asked somebody for help who's better at something than I am. I said, hey, can you look at this, because you're way better at this. Can you look at this and help make this better? And I trust their opinion, I trust what their gifts are. Nobody is completely self-made, and I think the sooner we accept that as entrepreneurs, the better off we're going to be, because we then will maybe be a little less hesitant to reach out and say, hey, I need some help, I'm stuck. Hey, I need some help, I seem blocked here. Hey, I can't break through here. Can you help? When it comes with that question that fires us up, because that's what we love to do.

Gilda VanderHeyden: 34:41

Yeah, and that trust piece you talked about. That's just so critical because what? Again, going back to the ineffective and effective leader, it's, the ineffective leader is not really having that. That trust is not really there, and it's it's. It's a little sad because I feel like that's what causes a lot of the tension.

Gilda VanderHeyden: 35:06

But, interestingly, what I'm finding in the work that I do, that's, um, let's put it this way, so a lot of the nonprofit organizations and and executive directors I work with, a lot of them initially think that their issue is burnout and that they need more work-life balance, which is true. But what I find so fascinating is that that's what they think the surface level of their issue is. But when we dig deeper and we have a conversation, it ends up being that so many other underlying issues, it's the team isn't collaborating together or there's tension, there's conflict, people are working in silos, whatever the case is, and then we dig deeper and kind of figure out what that is. But the reason why I'm bringing this up is because the trust to that other staff member who might know more, etc. Know more, et cetera.

Gilda VanderHeyden: 36:23

So, for example, one would be executive director that feels they have to control everything, and because of the fear the fear that if I don't look and micromanage every single aspect of this it's going to go wrong, it's going to look bad and the board's going to come back and I'm going to be in trouble, and that's just not good. So their fear-based behavior is impacting the whole team and you. Just like I said, I think it just comes down back down to some of the four things we talked about earlier, but just really, like you pointed out, recognizing that person's human and then connecting there, and then, slowly but surely, we have to do it in steps. And then the acceptance of the person, right, Well, that's just one thing, versus trusting and believing and like whoa, that's a whole other step. But again, I think what it comes back to is the leader him or herself. We got to work on that inner side where we're untangling the blocks. It doesn't mean that they're still not going to come up.

Gilda VanderHeyden: 37:26

They'll still come up and rear their ugly head.

Gilda VanderHeyden: 37:27

They will, and you'll have setbacks. That's part of the process. But maybe this time you learn quicker and your reaction was less volatile as a result and that means that's progress. In fact, I had one. I'm talking to one of the staff members like sometimes my clients will say well, my staff member is going through this thing and can you do an emergency coaching call for this? Absolutely so. I did that a couple of weeks ago for one of my nonprofit clients and what's interesting is, you know, as staff, because I've done workshops at their work site and we've done stuff I think we did a lot of.

Gilda VanderHeyden: 38:01

The last one, at the beginning of the year, was on active listening and you know it's so neat because even though we coached through her issue the staff member she's a sport role she said to me you know, I just wanted to tell you, yeah, you know, we're trying to do a happy, healthy work, which is funny because that's the whole message we're working on. I'm like, okay, it's got infiltrated at level, which is great progress. But she said I'm really seeing that our workplace is becoming we're making progress and it is healthier and happier. So I will tell people. It's not an overnight process. It takes time, but it's nice to know that there is impact. Again, it's not as quick as I'd like it to be, but she said oh, I am noticing changes.

Gilda VanderHeyden: 38:51

For example, one of the issues we were chatting about was that, hey, because she went to her executive director to say I'm not feeling good about this, that her executive director called me, emailed and said hey, look, could you do an emergency coaching session? But the fact she could come to her leader, she felt she's approachable enough to be able to have that conversation. Hey, I'm struggling with this issue with my coworkers and I'm not feeling heard and I'm upset, you know, and we, we coached through a lot of that, um, and she felt so much better. So it's just, it's just, it's it's. It's a, like I said, it's just a work in progress and the trust building. It takes time, but I think, like you talked about, it's just starting with seeing them as human and maybe asking yourself well, how would I want to be treated? Start there.

Dr. William Attaway: 39:45

Yeah, absolutely Gilda. This has been such a fantastic conversation. I so appreciate your willingness to share so openly from what you've learned so far and the best is yet to come. Oh, I love it If you could. If you could leave people with one big idea today, one big thing that you want them to remember. What would that one big idea be?

Gilda VanderHeyden: 40:08

Oh, that's a tough one. I've got too many, I would say. I guess thinking about your audience in the entrepreneurial space. For for this group, it would really be that at every moment you have a choice and reminding yourself that at that moment you can choose a new response, a new way of working. And again, if you don't feel that you're emotionally stable in the moment to do that, to give yourself that full permission to say I'm going to just not respond and I'm going to put a pin in it and let the other party know hey, this is getting a little heated. Uh, I really needed to, like, get a fresh breath of fresh air and really think about it. I do want to come back and revisit it. Let's revisit next, you know, tomorrow afternoon or whatever. Like, give yourself a day or half a day, right, um? So just remembering that you have that choice. And then, um, remembering that you have that choice.

Gilda VanderHeyden: 41:36

And then there's another part to it that you be pay attention to some of your self-talk as well, because oftentimes, when all of a sudden you get to an escalated emotion like anger, frustration, it comes so quickly, there's so many thoughts that come in, but all of a sudden you're like whoa, you're frustrated and you don't even know why. It just kind of happened from zero to a hundred super fast. So, even if you don't know, in that moment, taking the time to reflect on and kind of figure out or again talk to someone like yourself to get like, what, what was it that went from zero to 100, and kind of find out what, what those triggers are, and go a little deeper in there to kind of figure those out. And I'd say another aspect of that is just letting yourself feel into the emotion and be there with it. There's lots of tools and things I have on that that can help with that. But really it's more about you've got that complete choice and it's a matter of how you're looking at it.

Gilda VanderHeyden: 42:40

And if the whatever you're doing now isn't serving you and maybe you start with the negative, think about when you are calmer, well, what's the opposite of that? And start there and pick a new thought. And when you pick that new thought, have that in the back of your mind of like a backup plan of not only are you going to have a strategy or a way you're going to do something differently, but you're also going to say when I start getting irritated up to here. I'm not only going to maybe count to 25, couple deep breaths, whatever the case would be, but the new thought I have and put it on an index card or post it near you and remind yourself and just keep practicing. I would say that would be sort of a little bit of a how-to under that. But yeah, just remembering that every single moment you can choose differently and you change the trajectory of wherever you're going.

Dr. William Attaway: 43:39

Such good advice. I know people are going to want to stay connected to you, Gilda, and continue to learn from you. What is the best way for them to do that?

Gilda VanderHeyden: 43:48

I would say probably just going to my website and I can put it in the show notes later, but it's wwwnonprofit all one word path, like you're walking down a pathcom. And when you first get on the site, I do have a gift for everyone it's the free guide on how to focus on your priorities. So you can, you know, get that and kind of start there to help increase your productivity and get your priorities in order, that kind of thing. And LinkedIn is also another way. But I would say you know definitely the nonprofit path and get your free guide as well. So hopefully that that'll be helpful for your folks.

Dr. William Attaway: 44:26

Love that, Always appreciate the generosity to offer something like that to the listeners. Thank you Absolutely. Thank you for being here. Thanks for joining me for this episode today. As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode, and if you find value here, I'd love it if you would rate it and review it. That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast. Second, if you don't have a copy of my newest book, Catalytic Leadership, I'd love to put a copy in your hands. If you go to catalyticleadershipbookcom, you can get a copy for free. Just pay the shipping so I can get it to you and we'll get one right out.

Dr. William Attaway: 45:11

My goal is to put this into the hands of as many leaders as possible as possible. This book captures principles that I've learned in 20 plus years of coaching leaders in the entrepreneurial space, in business, government, nonprofits, education and the local church. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about. And if you're ready to take a next step with a coach to help you intentionally grow and thrive as a leader, I'd be honored to help you Just go to catalyticleadershipnet to book a call with me. Stay tuned for our next episode next week. Until then, as always, leaders choose to be catalytic.

Intro / Outro: 45:55

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