From Travel Advisor to CEO: Lindsey Epperly's Journey in Servant Leadership and Business Growth

Ever wondered how a young travel advisor could evolve into a successful CEO? Lindsey Epperly, CEO of Jet Set World Travel, shares her compelling journey from her early days influenced by her father's ethical entrepreneurship to building a business grounded in respect and kindness. Lindsey’s accidental foray into the travel industry at 19 and her focus on servant leadership have been pivotal in reducing churn and enhancing overall business success. This episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to understand the nuances between leading and managing, and the importance of being others-focused in business.

Join us as Lindsey opens up about her personal and professional evolution, tackling challenges such as burnout and imposter syndrome. Transitioning from travel advisor to mentor and ultimately to CEO, she provides valuable insights on how these roles can drive personal and industry growth. Lindsey’s perspective on viewing imposter syndrome as a positive indicator of progress will undoubtedly resonate with many listeners. Learn how investing in others can spark unexpected personal development, and how the lessons from entrepreneurship and parenthood are deeply interwoven in her journey.

Moreover, Lindsey shares the complexities of working with a spouse and how she and her husband Jeremy navigated their transition from personal partners to business partners. They faced initial challenges but learned to recognize and value their differing skill sets, ultimately benefiting their business. Emphasizing the importance of hiring a business coach, Lindsey discusses how stepping back from daily operations has allowed for higher-level strategic planning. Tune in and prepare for a packed episode with actionable insights and inspiring stories that will leave you eager to embrace challenges as opportunities for growth.

For t

Ready to Finish 2024 Strong?
Don’t wait until December to address your challenges. There's a few months left in 2024, now is the time to plan for a strong finish! Book a free strategy call with Dr. William Attaway to create a plan for impactful results. 

Chapters

• 0:00 Meet Lindsey Epperly
• 5:56 Entrepreneurship and Growth
• 12:31 Imposter Syndrome and Overcoming Challenges
• 23:30 Navigating Business Partnership With Your Spouse
• 35:55 Benefits of Business Coaching and Growth

Transcript

Dr. William Attaway: 0:00

I am so excited to have Lindsey Epperle on the podcast today. Lindsey is the CEO of Jet Set World Travel, which she has scaled from a one-person operation into a team of over 70 dedicated members, recently recognized on the Inc 5000 list of fastest-growing companies. Companies Inspired by navigating her industry's greatest crisis while expecting her first child, a season she affectionately refers to as the MBA I never wanted. Lindsey is dedicated to leveraging the illusion of control and teaching others how to turn obstacles into opportunities. Lindsey, I'm so glad you're here today. Thanks for being on the show.

Lindsey Epperly: 0:44

Thanks for having me, William. I'm so excited to have this conversation.

Intro / Outro: 0:49

Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed to help leaders intentionally grow and thrive.

Dr. William Attaway: 0:57

Here is your host author and leadership and executive coach, dr William Attaway coach, dr William Attaway, I want to start with a little bit of your story. I'd love for you to share just a little bit of what has brought you to this point. I hit a few of the high points, but particularly around your journey and your development as a leader.

Lindsey Epperly: 1:21

How did this whole thing get started.

Lindsey Epperly: 1:23

It's funny. I grew up with an entrepreneur as a dad and so I always saw it modeled, this kind of different lifestyle and a really excellent leadership example in him, just the way that he ran a very ethical company. He would come home and discuss the things that were going on in his business to my mom and myself over our dinner table and I actually used to call that my dinnertime MBA. Before I received the MBA, I never wanted all of this to say. I don't have an actual MBA, so schools of hard knocks, right, and just life teaching me. But I had such a good example in him and I always kind of knew I am 5'2", I am brunette, I am going to be an entrepreneur.

Lindsey Epperly: 2:05

It was built into my system and I didn't really know what that meant in terms of leadership until really starting to step into that calling. So I started kind of pursuing entrepreneurship. I wandered into the travel industry on accident. I had walked into an agency for a brochure and I accidentally walked out with a job and, yeah, it was totally meant to be. I was 19 years old, I just didn't know left from right and here I am selling sandals, honeymoons. But that was how I entered into it and, honestly, I worked with a company where I got to see leadership exemplified in a negative way.

Lindsey Epperly: 2:40

And so that was very eye-opening and I think it gave me the permission to say I think I could do this better.

Lindsey Epperly: 2:48

You know, I think I could build a company where we are respectful and kind to our clients, to our employees, to our colleagues, and I don't think that takes a lot, you know, to actually be kind. But I think I can do it. And and then I would see areas where I could innovate too. So now I know there's a market need for what I would see areas where I could innovate too. So now I know there's a market need for what I want to build, and kind of each iteration of what is now Jet Set it was formerly Epril Travel, which is my maiden name. We actually acquired another company during the pandemic and then we rebranded to them. But every milestone that we've hit and every kind of iteration of this company has been in response to what does this industry need? What does my team need? How can I evolve and step up from the role I'm in now to a different and higher leadership role and how do I answer kind of the problems that are happening that need to be addressed from an entrepreneurial perspective?

Dr. William Attaway: 3:40

You know, I love that framing, Lindsey. You say you know you start with what does the industry need? What do people need? What do the clients need? What does my team need? Yeah, you don't start with what do I want and that seems so simple. Yeah, but I got to tell you I think it's pretty counterintuitive. Interesting so much of the entrepreneurial community is not others focused. It's not focused on the client or the team, and I think that is something that makes you unique you know, it can't just be my problem that I'm solving.

Lindsey Epperly: 4:24

It has to be an actual market demand for a problem, or else I don't have a business. So maybe there is some selfishness in knowing that, like I need to serve clients in order to run a business. But but I do agree, I do agree. I think that that was something that my dad very much instilled in me. Is is how to serve and how to be a servant leader and, um and I don't get it right all the time, definitely, but I do think that it helps make our business more attractive to clients and to our teammates, because that is the ethos of what we built.

Dr. William Attaway: 4:52

Well, it's got to lower churn as well. Yeah, you know, on a purely ROI perspective, both with clients and with team members, Because when people feel seen and valued which is what that others focused results in when they feel seen and valued, they lean in.

Lindsey Epperly: 5:11

Yeah, yeah, I feel that I feel that with our team, we've got a really, really phenomenal team and I'm super fortunate just to be able to work alongside them, and it's a lot of fun to me. First of all, I've just recently learned that leading and managing are two different things, which was great news, because I consider myself not a great manager and so I'm like great, I can really lean into the leadership side of this, and so I enjoy that. I enjoy the development of people and getting to know individuals and what drives them and what motivates them. You know what's really interesting? I'm really thinking about how you've touched on this, and I actually do feel like every time that I've gone to solve a problem for the industry and for my team by proxy, I have solved a problem for myself, and so it's almost like every time that those milestones would occur, those kind of like tension points, I would start feeling them.

Lindsey Epperly: 5:56

I was also experiencing a level of burnout at each of those times, and it was more of a less of a symptom of overwork and more of a sign that, hey, it's actually time to evolve. It's time for you to give what you're doing now to someone who actually wants to be doing it. It's not going to be burned out by it. That will come to life. So now you're creating a new career path and now you get to step into a new role, so like when I went from being a travel advisor to mentoring and then when I went from mentoring to CEO. So like each of those evolutions also coincide with the solving of problems in the industry and in the business and it also freed me to step into kind of that next version of myself too. So it's neat when it's a scenario where it's a win, win, win and you can really look back and think, oh yeah, that actually solved a lot of problems, which is the whole point of entrepreneurship.

Dr. William Attaway: 6:43

And that personal development. You know it feels like the side effect, but it's so much more than that, and I mean I imagine your experiences like mine. You know, when you're pouring into and investing in other people, then you can look back, you know, at a week, or look back at a month or even a season, and say, wow, there was some growth there. For me, that wasn't the center of the target, that wasn't what I was specifically aiming at, but because I was pouring into and investing in other people, I grew too.

Lindsey Epperly: 7:18

Yeah, yes, very much so, and honestly, I think that's why I call that season the MBA I never wanted, because it was the lessons that your business can teach. You are just instrumental. And I also recently became a parent, in the past four years, and I have two little girls, and now I see how that was. Luckily, entrepreneurship happened before parenthood, because it was preparing me for a bigger boss, which is now my like four-year-old daughter. But yes, it's like the developing of people and then the challenges you get to solve.

Lindsey Epperly: 7:56

For me it was that season of my business was absolutely leveled because of the pandemic that's not the time to own a travel agency of the pandemic that's not the time to own a travel agency but it taught me gosh, I mean the way that I developed as a leader and as just a human, as a wife, as a mother. During that time I went and traded for the world as hard as it was, it's completely. I mean. First of all, it catapulted our business Like we would not have gotten the opportunities that we received and to 4X, if not more, at this point our volume had it not been for that. But then also for me, professionally and personally, I mean I just the ability to let go of that kind of tight knit grip I had on control for so long is such a blessing, especially as I've entered into the young stages of motherhood.

Dr. William Attaway: 10:10

You know, as you, as you grew and as you moved from being just that solopreneur into building a team, one of the things that I see in so many clients that I work with is there begins to be a real manifestation of what we call imposter syndrome. You know, like, can I really do this? And even with hiring people, you know you're always looking to hire the best people that you can, people who are really good at what they do. Did you ever struggle with that as you were bringing people onto your team?

Lindsey Epperly: 10:41

You are speaking my language. So imposter syndrome is something I personally. I find myself a bit hyper obsessed with it because I think it's it's not discussed enough. I think it's not discussed enough and, yes, I struggled with it so much that I created a whole podcast called who Made you the Boss? Because I have asked myself that question so many times when I look in the mirror and I have to go oh, it was me, I made myself the boss, and now I have to live up to this. And what does this mean? And why me? I put my shirt on backwards today. People only knew all the things. So, yeah, have I struggled?

Lindsey Epperly: 11:14

And I think what I've come to appreciate about it and why I want to talk about it more frequently is one, it's not talked about enough, and so we oftentimes see people at the pinnacles of their success and think like, well, they never even had a day of struggle, and that's not ever the case.

Lindsey Epperly: 11:29

But two, I just feel like we look at it as a society as a negative, that we think like there's the inner critic, got to silence, the inner critic, got to get past the imposter syndrome, and I actually think it's important to look at it as a positive, because if you're doing something right, you're going to have some sort of voice of that right, like you're always going to have a little bit of fear, a little bit of anxiety, a little bit of imposter syndrome. That just means you're showing up in a space that you haven't shown up before. You're challenging yourself, you're getting out of your comfort zone. Probably you're about to build and launch something great. So I try to look at it as when that little tendril comes and it's, it's the more successful you get, I think, the more prevalent it is. You just learn to deal with it more. I think that it's a good sign.

Dr. William Attaway: 12:11

I think that's fantastic. You know, it's something that I find is a recurring thread among so many of, like you say, people that you look at and you're like, oh, they're tremendously successful. There is a sense of that, but it is not discussed. You know, and it's real, it's very, very real. A leader that you and I both and we've talked about this previously that we both admire Andy Stanley. I've heard him say for decades that he hires the best people that he can around him. And he says, honestly, I don't want to be the smartest person in the room and most often I feel like I don't even deserve to be in the room. He said the only reason they let me stick around is because I was here first.

Dr. William Attaway: 12:55

I feel that, I feel that and I've drawn so much comfort from that, you know, because I think we all deal with those moments.

Lindsey Epperly: 13:04

Totally. You know it's funny. I told this story on my podcast recently of like, when I felt like imposter syndrome was at its absolute pinnacle for me, and that was the very end of 2020. So our business has gone now probably nine months completely in the red. We're just like holding on to hope and our spreadsheet that says we have a few more months run rate and we wind up going to this entrepreneurial retreat on a private island and this is not because we can afford it at the time. We can afford nothing. At the time, we had to walk away from our home. We had already paid for it prior to the pandemic, so we're like okay so now we have to go show up and pretend, and that's what I felt.

Lindsey Epperly: 13:36

I felt like I needed to pretend like everything's fine, and I just felt like, well, should I write failure on the top of my forehead so everyone can see? Do I need to just announce myself and how bad this is, or do I pretend? And that was where I mean honestly, it took me like months to process after that, like why did I show up as such a shell of myself? Because I was so nervous and so in my head about it. I'm surrounded by entrepreneurs who are doing incredible things and I'm like, except for me. And then I had to really think through. It does take a pretty sizable ego, I think, to focus on yourself so much that you think everyone else is noticing, and so I had to really work through that of my own pride of like probably no one really knew or care, like I'm the one who is judging myself the absolute most, and so I think that's important to notice about our imposter syndrome is we're really afraid that everyone else is going to find us out, but it's really more of an internal battle than anything.

Dr. William Attaway: 14:30

Yeah, that's so good. I have two girls as well, and one's in college and one's in high school, and one of the things we've navigated is well, what are they thinking about me? What are they thinking? And I'm like let me help you out, okay.

Lindsey Epperly: 14:48

Yeah, what do you tell them? I need to write this down.

Dr. William Attaway: 14:51

Most people are not thinking about you. They're not because they're thinking about themselves. Yes, you know, everybody's favorite radio station is WIIFM. What's in it for me? Right, and that's what they're focused on. Right, they're not thinking about you nearly as much as you think they are, and I've just tried to drive this into them because I want them to understand that. You know we talk about FOMO, you know the fear of missing out, but FOPO is equally real the fear of other people's opinions, right, and we've got to be so mindful of this and so careful that we're not allowing our behavior or worse, our thoughts and beliefs to be driven by what we think other people are thinking about us, and I just I want them to, I want them to understand that and grab that, because if they will, if they will lean into that, it will change the trajectory of their lives.

Lindsey Epperly: 15:45

That's really, really good. I, I, I did not grasp that concept, I would say, for my entire 20s, and it took a real life, had to beat me down for me to get it type of situation. And now I get it. Now it makes so much sense. But I love that you're instilling that in your girls from such a young age. I'm going to 100% do the same, absolutely.

Dr. William Attaway: 16:09

And that's why I share about it, because I want this to be something that we pass on. And that's why I share about it because I want this to be something that we pass on Because if we will truly invest in the next generation, then we can see them experience and even achieve things internally that we didn't get to, and that's what I want for them. Yes, I want them to experience things that I didn't, and not experience things that I did.

Lindsey Epperly: 16:34

The best advice I think I've received on parenting thus far in my short time as a parent was the desire to make my ceiling their floor.

Dr. William Attaway: 16:46

Oh, so, good yes.

Lindsey Epperly: 16:47

And I go to that so often.

Dr. William Attaway: 16:49

Yes, that's so so good. Go to that so often. Yes, that's so so good. You know, I think people are listening to your story and they're thinking, wow, you know you're so successful. You know you've, you've, you've experienced all these things. But you've already alluded to this Wasn't just up into the right. This wasn't just you know. Hey, no bumps, no bruises. Yeah, you know. All I know how to do is win. This wasn't your story. If people are listening and they're thinking, yeah, but you've never experienced what I have, you 've never really hit the bottom. I mean the pandemic for a travel agent that's got to be pretty close to the bottom. Losing your home that's got to be pretty close to the bottom. And you share so openly about this. What gave you hope in those moments?

Lindsey Epperly: 17:40

That's a really good question and you're right, it was. It was a series of you know, one thing after another, after another, and I had a medical journey in the midst of all of that too, right, I couldn't drive for six months. I mean, it was just, it was like it was like everything possible and um, and I know you have a faith background, as we discussed, and, and so often during this season, I kept going back to intuitively I probably should have gone back to the story of Joe, because that's oftentimes what I felt, but I kept going back to the story of Jonah and the story of Jonah and that God was calling him and he was like absolutely not the last place I'm ever going to go is Nineveh. That is my least favorite place on earth. And I paralleled this because during this season of life, we had to move back to my hometown, and I have always referred to my hometown as Nineveh. It was a place that I've just never fit in. And life forces us back here and it's a beautiful circumstance in that I'm having a baby girl and I get to be close to my family, but like, at the same time, this is it's just not my place, it's not my family's place. It felt like that failure finally caught up to me, right, like this is like rock bottom for me, and that I'm living back in a place I've never felt like I belonged. My business is doing negative for 18 plus months, we had to walk away from a home that we were purchasing in a city we love, which also meant we walked away from our community and the family we had built up there through friends, and so it was just.

Lindsey Epperly: 19:05

It was that season, but I bring up Jonah because the message that I got during that time I call it the monsters that save us and essentially, this idea that Jonah had to be swallowed by the whale right, that was the monster. That had to be terrifying. He's sitting in the belly of the beast for three days and had to wonder, like, am I even going to survive this? And then, of course, the monster spits him out on the place that he wanted to go to the least in his life. As I just kept going back to this, going back to this, going back to this and going, like, when is this monster going to save me? Like, what? Like? I am so terrified of everything that is happening at rock bottom and I cannot see how God's going to actually come through, but I know that he is, because I just kept returning to that story of Jonah and the hope for me was from a faith perspective, and it was. I know that there's a story on the other side of this and actually it was an Andy Stanley question that really got me through. He posed the question of during really challenging times, if you can ask yourself, what story do I want to tell? And so I kept returning that, and my husband is my business partner, so we had all eggs in one basket. But also we were able to sit with each other and make these really tough decisions. Right, do we keep the home or do we keep the business? Where are we going to bring our baby home to? What are these next months going to look like? Is government funding even going to be applicable to us? Oh, thank God it is. We've got to apply for that. So now we have another few months run rate to keep this business open.

Lindsey Epperly: 20:31

It was just those types of decisions together, because we knew we had something special on our hands with the business that I had founded and we knew that we wanted this freedom and flexibility for our family. So it was all of those things plus our faith, and not just plus our faith. Faith was the cornerstone that allowed us to hold on, to hope during that time. And then, of course, it's so much easier on the other side to say like, and now look, like, now look.

Lindsey Epperly: 20:54

But honestly, william, we experienced miracle after miracle and I call these the redemption stories of that medical experience that I had. I was misdiagnosed. They found scarring on my brain that they said had been there since birth, and I just had this gut feeling of like that's not right, that's not something's off, something's off, and wound up going to Mayo Clinic where I received completely clear scans. And that was. And even the doctor said we can't, we can't explain it. Could have been a smudge, could have been a miracle, could have been like for you to go from one person saying with confidence, you've got scarring on your brain, you're epileptic, this is going to change your life to actually it was due to something else else and we're going to get to the bottom of that. So just, that was one example, but the other was we found a new home and a new community where we feel like we've been able to thrive for the past couple of years and we never would have found it how we proceeded with buying the home that we were buying in the first place, had we not gone to Nineveh, had we not learned the things we were supposed to learn there.

Lindsey Epperly: 21:49

And then the business itself. I mean, we could have never wound up on the Inc 5000 list. I never even dreamed of having a company that reached that size. We were able to acquire one of the companies I admired the most in our industry. So just all of these unbelievable opportunities because we held on to that faith. So I guess if anyone's listening, I'm doing a little bit of rambling in this, but if anyone's listening and they're going through that type of time, having faith is the cornerstone. Looking at this time is possibly a monster that will save you. Right now it just looks like a monster, but it's actually going to spit you on the shores of kind of where you're supposed to be and who you're supposed to be. That was instrumental for me.

Dr. William Attaway: 22:28

What a great illustration that there is no such thing as a wasted experience. Yeah, every experience, even the worst, even the most difficult seasons, are not wasted.

Lindsey Epperly: 22:41

Right, and I feel it's kind of like what you were talking about earlier with the ways that we get poured back into, and this was actually a message at North Point recently of how much there are times that God has to work in you in order to work through you, and that was definitely a working in me time and now, because of what has been worked in you, you can be a conduit to those around you.

Dr. William Attaway: 23:07

Yeah, right, yeah, that's my hope and share that freely.

Lindsey Epperly: 23:09

Yeah, exactly, I mean, that's why I launched a podcast. Yeah, that's my hope. Yeah, exactly, that's why I launched a podcast. No-transcript.

Dr. William Attaway: 23:31

You mentioned that your husband is your business partner.

Lindsey Epperly: 23:48

That is a difficult thing for a lot of people to imagine. How does that work for you guys? What is the? So it's always very funny when people learn that we work together, because you kind of see the instant projection of well, I could never with my partner. So my husband is truly my best friend, and I say that in full. I just gush over the man. We've been married, we're going on six years and I know that's young and fresh, but we were literally friends for six years before he even made a move. So we just knew each other very well and we were engaged.

Lindsey Epperly: 24:17

When I had a key employee decide I'm going to change industries, I'm going to leave, and it just left me high and dry. And so my fiance at the time, Jeremy, who was tuned to become my husband, said why don't I apply for the position? And I was like absolutely not. I really enjoy our relationship. I'd rather not destroy it. Plus, this business is already totally owning me. It cannot own you too. And then he started laying out the ways of like. But listen, I think we could craft our family around this in a way that provides us freedom and flexibility, which is our ultimate goal. He was working as a financial analyst at the time and he's like I just think I can help you scale this thing. And so finally he wore me down and the week that we got married is also the week that he started working with me.

Lindsey Epperly: 24:58

We were not business partners at the time. I was still extremely independent, only child, had no desire for a business partner, and eventually we just started seeing the ways in which, wow, we can complement each other. And then, when we went through that season of COVID together, that was, I would like to say, that's, the season that brought us together the closest. It eventually did. But first it had to completely break us apart and show us where are the cracks in this foundation. How do we, if we want to actually do this thing and do it right, come together well and respectfully?

Lindsey Epperly: 25:28

So, to answer your question about some of the takeaways, one of the biggest is that the home version of yourself and the work version of yourself are two different people, and so just because the home version of yourself and your partner are madly in love, the work versions may not get along at all.

Lindsey Epperly: 25:45

And for myself and Jeremy, to begin with, I mean, there was like animosity, there was tension. Like animosity, there was tension. There was like I've earned my professional respect by going off of my gut intuition and building a business for however many years at that point five years I think he's earned his professional respect by going off of his extreme strategic mind and actual MBA and neither of us like the book smarts and the street smarts were like but my way is better. And so there was just tension to begin with and we really had to learn how to give one another professional respect and that was the game changer for us. But it was a learned activity. It didn't come naturally, which was a mistake we made by thinking that it would, simply because we adore each other as husband and wife.

Dr. William Attaway: 26:25

That's so good Professional respect.

Lindsey Epperly: 26:28

Yeah.

Dr. William Attaway: 26:29

You think it would be?

Lindsey Epperly: 26:30

a given and it just is. It's not.

Dr. William Attaway: 26:33

You know, I think so often we we don't value what is different from us. You know, when it comes to how we're wired, we value that and we see other people who are, who are wired like we are, and we lean toward that, and then we see somebody who brings something different to the table. We don't always value that, we don't always respect that, and I love that professional respect. It reminds me I was talking with a company last week about the working genius profile and facilitating a working genius session with them and with all of their employees, and we looked at the team map and where they all fit.

Dr. William Attaway: 27:07

And one of the things I always want to make sure I communicate in one of those sessions is you know, there's no such thing as one of these geniuses being better than another. You know, there's not one genius that rules them all. Right, right, they all bring different things to the table and every one of those things is needed. Every project, every team, every company needs all six geniuses, yeah, and no one is better. And I think that is a struggle point for so many of us, because we value what is like our wiring.

Dr. William Attaway: 27:40

We value when people bring that we're like yeah you're right on. You're doing it the right way. It's my way.

Lindsey Epperly: 27:47

That's a great point that there is no right or wrong way, but for many of us I think this is really true, a lot of founders that have entrepreneurs there's a reason that you're a founder. Right, you wanted to do it your own way, and so I think speaking at least for myself I had an extra challenging time overcoming what you just said, that there are no one leads them all, because secretly, I'm thinking except for my personality type, obviously and so to really be humbled and learn, actually, if you want to run a business that is going to because my hope is I run a business that long sustains me, right, like that, that I am not the linchpin and, granted, it's running like that now because we have a fabulous leadership team, but that's all. Because I learned to like take my cold, dead hands off of the bottleneck that I had been creating because I believed it needed to be me or no one. I mean it really. I think this is true of so many founders, because it's your baby and also you just think you know.

Dr. William Attaway: 28:42

I want everybody to write down what you just said that you took your hands off.

Lindsey Epperly: 28:48

The cold dead hands part too.

Dr. William Attaway: 28:51

No, that's perfect, that's so good. Take off the cold dead hands, because I think so often people become the lid to their own businesses. They are in the way they are holding back the growth. They're the lid and until they learn how to step back and take their hands off, they will never experience the growth and the success that they could.

Lindsey Epperly: 29:12

Yeah, do you, given your coaching, have advice for people short of go through a catastrophic event that destroys the whole business, and then you'll learn.

Dr. William Attaway: 29:22

Sometimes that's what's necessary. I try to walk them through it without that. If they're teachable and they're willing to do that, then that's my preference. Yeah, but you know, sometimes that's what it's going to take. Yeah, yeah, you know there are things you only learn in crisis.

Lindsey Epperly: 29:43

Right and from a faith perspective too, I think that God knows which of us need those lessons and how to deliver them in a way, and in a timing too. I think about the timing of all of it, Like for me, you know, pregnant, in business with my husband, all the things all at once and I looked back and thought like that's the worst possible timing, but like now in retrospect, it actually was the best possible timing.

Dr. William Attaway: 30:09

Yeah, that's so good. You have a sabbatical coming up, and that is something that I would imagine many of our listeners cannot imagine doing something like that, like stepping away from their business not just for a week and not just for two weeks, but for an extended period. What has the lead up to this been like for you?

Lindsey Epperly: 30:39

So well, I should probably clarify I call it sabbatical-ish because it really it's not a full blown. I'm still going to be like, especially for my team, when needed. But I will say the lead up to this has actually been, over the past few years, very intentional, given I've now taken two maternity leaves. My husband is my business partner. There was a level of stress that was happening on me when I was in certain roles. So, for instance, when I was in a kind of a frontline advisor and sales role that experienced a certain level of tension and stress that was actually detrimental to my body and to the pregnancy. And so during those times Jeremy would step up and say, hey, let me take this off your plate, let me do this. You know, like to keep you in a in a healthy state of mind and physical being. Um, because stress impacts our body so much and um, and so those were like kind of practice moments, and then what would wind up happening is he would thrive in this role of operating the company from day to day. I would desire some flexibility around. I'm a new mom, I want to be home with my baby and even if I'm not home, I want to be on call for my baby and so not to have everything rising and falling on me, and so both of those maternity leaves were a bit of practice and kind of helping him evolve into those roles that I was in and I would say at this point in my business. So, even without stepping away for a couple of months, the business very much runs without me, because we've been so intentional about not just his role but our leadership team's role and the way that they're stepping up and they're taking ownership.

Lindsey Epperly: 32:06

We did an exercise at the beginning of the year on our retreat where they created the vision and mission statement for their leadership team, essentially right, like so they. Every single word in that statement is curated by each of them to say this is what we want to be responsible for and this is how we decide what, what, which of Lindsey's 5,000 ideas per day will fly and we'll see. You know, because they have to help weed those out. And then I get to be in a visionary role, which is what I'm best at. So I'm very rarely putting out fire.

Lindsey Epperly: 32:34

So to me to step back is actually like at this point it'll be okay and mainly it's just like I'm not going to take meetings because we're on a different time zone and Jeremy's doing something similar. Right, he is still finger on the pulse of the business. We'll be in a different time zone. We just want to be able to be present with the family. We'll be in a different time zone. We just want to be able to be present with the family.

Lindsey Epperly: 32:55

And so he's doing it in a way to where, hey, I'm here for the leadership team if they need me, but I want to empower them to step up and into their roles that they have been so beautifully filling already. So let's just give them even more autonomy. So it's all been very intentional, and I hesitate to even call it a sabbatical because I'm probably not even posing it as that to the team, but it is just a nice opportunity to give others the chance to step up, that we know they've been doing it, they are doing it, they deserve that, and then it gives us that freedom with the family, to be present and not, you know, kind of constantly putting out fires.

Lindsey Epperly: 33:40

I think, it's, I think it's incredibly intentional.

Dr. William Attaway: 33:41

and what a great way to develop your leaders by giving them not just, you know, some responsibility, but actual authority. Yeah, yeah.

Lindsey Epperly: 33:49

I hope so. We might want to do an interview on the other side and just make sure everything's awesome. I'm kidding, we have no hesitation.

Dr. William Attaway: 33:54

The team is really awesome.

Lindsey Epperly: 33:55

It's one of those things, too, where it's like when we get to meet, I always walk away going. How do we get so lucky? How do we get this team that cares about the business? That's also funny and adds levity. And I think maybe some of this goes back to. We have very intentional core values and one of those is to create fun and celebrate constantly, and so it's really fun when we see these team members not just leadership, but also our advisors laughing on a call. This job is hard. They're coming out of busy season. There's definitely burnout being experienced, but they're intentionally playing around with each other and they're telling each other, like what made them smile and what made them laugh. And you know, like I don't know it, just it's a special, it's a special group. The community at Jet Set is um is really our secret sauce.

Dr. William Attaway: 34:46

Oh, that's so good. You know the the team that you lead is going to need you to lead at a different level a year from now, five years from now. I'm curious what do you do to stay on top of your game and continue to develop and grow into the leader your team's going to need you to be?

Lindsey Epperly: 35:11

Ooh, this is such a good question because it is something that Jeremy and I wrestled with toward the end of last year, where, first, what did it was? We had an HR situation and we had spent like eight plus hours of our normal working week trying to like dissolve this HR situation. And then we looked at each other and go, why are we the ones doing this? Like, we are not qualified for this particular situation. We really need a professional and or we need to recognize where the cap of our own leadership is so that we can grow it in order to, to your point, as the business grows, grow with it and make sure we're ahead of that. So I think it's really important as a leader, to recognize where is your ceiling in terms of your leadership, knowledge and ability and to always be growing that intentionally.

Lindsey Epperly: 35:55

So we hired a business coach this year, a joint business coach that we meet with monthly, and kind of bring to her these here's what's going on, here's what our vision is, here's what's next, and she's been phenomenal at pouring into us in that. So that's something I would highly recommend, as you know, since this is along the lines of what you do, but I had never considered doing it before then I just didn't even know what an asset that would be for me to grow as a leader. Then that helps the team and the company grow, because if you're building your company in a way that is healthy, it should be growing, and that then means you're now running a company that's larger than you've ever ran before, and so you have to acknowledge the limitations there. And then also that's a breeding ground for imposter syndrome, right when you're like well, I've never ran any 5,000 company I don't know, and so to just learn this is an area of improvement that I could be pursuing is really important.

Dr. William Attaway: 36:50

Oh, that's so good. I love the intentionality there. And you're right, there's such a value in having somebody on the outside who is going to help you see what you can't see, because you cannot see the whole picture when you're in the frame, and neither can I. Yeah, that's why I've had coaches for years and years and years now who helped me to see what I can't see in my business, who asked me questions that maybe nobody else in my world is going to ask me, and I'm so glad that you're doing that, because I think that intentionality is going to bear fruit for decades.

Lindsey Epperly: 37:22

Yeah, yeah, thanks for saying that. We're already seeing evidence of it, and it's funny because I think that it feels counterintuitive and that it's like, well, if I've got a coach who's only working with me, you know, an hour or two a month, like, how will they know the details? How will they get into the weeds? And it's like that's actually the point is you shouldn't be that involved in the weeds either, like you should. This. This should be teaching you to rise up and you started. It's rote memory that you go back to your inbox and just bat out emails all day, instead of being diligent about time blocking or whatever it is that helps you with your schedule. That's something that I feel like is a constant learning lesson.

Dr. William Attaway: 38:07

Oh, so good. You are always learning, you are always listening and growing, and I think this is just the latest iteration of that. I'm curious like is there a book that has made a really big difference in your journey that you would recommend to everybody listening? Hey, if you haven't read this, you got to check this out.

Lindsey Epperly: 38:29

So I'm a big reader. Yeah, so you're right. Like I'm, I love learning. So I'm a big reader. Yeah, so you're right, I love learning, I love listening to podcasts, I love reading books my all-time favorite and I'm almost hesitant to recommend it just based off of your audience, but I personally got so much out of it.

Lindsey Epperly: 38:44

It's Untamed by Glennon Doyle.

Lindsey Epperly: 38:46

I don't know if you're familiar with it, but it's just a very female forward book and I read it when I was going through that season of life where I was pregnant and my company was falling apart and all these things, and she just talks a lot about how kind of like common society's rhetoric is that to choose yourself is to be selfish and kind of flips that on its head of.

Lindsey Epperly: 39:11

Actually, as a mom especially and I was about to become a mom to choose yourself is actually modeling for your child, that you don't have to be a martyr for everyone else's needs at all times, and so it really kind of helped me step into a place where I was able to say what I needed and articulate that, and I feel like now, as I venture into higher elevations of leadership and as I put out my thoughts into the world via the podcast and via writing and everything like that. It's allowed me this kind of freedom and permission to say like I'm doing this right back to that ceiling, is their floor thing right? I'm doing this so that I can show two daughters that they can do this too.

Intro / Outro: 39:52

Yes.

Dr. William Attaway: 39:54

Yes, that is exactly what I want to show mine.

Lindsey Epperly: 39:57

Yeah.

Dr. William Attaway: 39:58

You know that, that you absolutely can step into this. Yes, this is. This has been so insightful and I feel like we keep talking for another hour. There's just so much to mine here, and I'm so grateful to you for sharing so generously from the insights and wisdom that you've gained so far. Typically, people walk away from an episode like this with one big idea. If you could define what you want that takeaway to be, what would you want it to be?

Lindsey Epperly: 40:30

I think I would go back to you know I mentioned I'm hyper obsessed with the imposter syndrome thing lately and how I really believe that when that is present, instead of criticizing yourself or trying to bat away the inner critic, it's really taking a moment to say like, oh, actually I'm really proud of myself that that is present, I'm really proud that I'm doing something that is scary enough to actually make me feel that fear right, Like that means probably you're going in the right direction and whatever it is that you're working on is something that the world actually needs from you. So that would be my message, and that often is my message, because I didn't hear that enough when I was putting out those scary things in the world didn't hear that enough when I was putting out those scary things in the world so helpful.

Dr. William Attaway: 41:20

I know people are going to want to stay connected to you and continue to learn from you, lindsey?

Lindsey Epperly: 41:23

What is the best way for them to do that? Yeah, Thanks for asking. Best way to find everything that I'm working on and stay in touch is just my website. It's lindseyepperly. com. From there, you can find the episodes of who Made you the Boss, which is available on all podcast platforms. You can find a way to connect with me directly. You can follow me on Instagram, join the newsletter, all the things. But it's also the place where I'm going to post the most recent updates of what work I'm putting into the world, because that's always kind of changing. I enjoy speaking, communicating, writing, and that's where I push it all out from.

Dr. William Attaway: 41:58

I love that. We'll have that link in the show notes and definitely check out this podcast. Who made you the boss? I can't wait to continue to learn from you in the months and years ahead. Lindsey, thank you.

Lindsey Epperly: 42:06

You are so kind. Thank you for creating a really wonderful space to be able to have these conversations. You are a phenomenal host. It has been so lovely getting to know you and you make it really easy to open up and chat.

Dr. William Attaway: 42:19

Thanks for joining me for this episode today. As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode, and if you find value here, I'd love it if you would rate it and review it. That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast. Second, if you don't have a copy of my newest book, catalytic Leadership, I'd love to put a copy in your hands. If you go to catalyticleadershipbookcom, you can get a copy for free. Just pay the shipping so I can get it to you and we'll get one right out.

Dr. William Attaway: 42:55

My goal is to put this into the hands of as many leaders as possible. This book captures principles that I've learned in 20 plus years of coaching leaders in the entrepreneurial space, in business, government, nonprofits, education and the local church. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about. And if you're ready to take a next step with a coach to help you intentionally grow and thrive as a leader, I'd be honored to help you. Just go to catalyticleadershipnet to book a call with me. Stay tuned for our next episode next week. Until then, as always, leaders choose to be catalytic.

Intro / Outro: 43:39

Thanks for listening to Catalytic Leadership with Dr William Attaway. Be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss the next episode. Want more? Go to catalyticleadershipnet.