Navigating Career Transitions: Cash Miller's Path from Military Service to Digital Marketing Leadership

Ever felt like the leap from one career to a completely different one is a chasm too wide to cross? Let Cash Miller, CEO of Titan Digital, debunk that myth for you. His transformation from military discipline to digital marketing mogul isn't just a story; it's a masterclass in leadership that he unpacks in our latest episode. Cash delves into the pivotal role that hard work, accountability, and the strategic lessons from his Army days played in catapulting a modest SEO company to the forefront of the industry.

Imagine loving the entrepreneurial process so deeply that it calls you back even after a sabbatical. That's the essence of our heartfelt discussion with Cash Miller. Listen as he shares the tale of his return to the business world, post-military re-enlistment, and how it rekindled his passion for creation and management. We navigate through inspiring insights from business titans and Cash's own family heritage, circling around the idea of staying innovative and engaged, finding your unique "zone of genius," and embracing the relentless pursuit of entrepreneurial excitement.

As Cash Miller shares his transition to a hands-off leadership style, the art of delegation takes center stage. Through anecdotes and reflections, he lays out the map for empowering teams and crafting an environment where every member can flourish. This episode isn't just about the wins; it's a treasure trove of wisdom for those aspiring to build a self-sufficient team. Plus, we get into the nuts and bolts of patient, discerning hiring practices—because sometimes, waiting for the right fit is the key to long-term success. Join us for an episode that not only narrates an entrepreneurial odyssey but provides actionable insights for digital agency owners and entrepreneurs ready to lead with vision and purpose.

To connect with Cash Miller or follow up with him, you can reach out to him on LinkedIn or send him an email at cash@titanmediaworx.com.

Transcript

Dr. William Attaway: 0:00

I'm so excited today to have Cash Miller on the podcast. Cash is the true embodiment of the American dream. Before he became the CEO of Titan Digital, an award-winning digital marketing company with offices in four states, Cash served in the US Army, where he learned the value of hard work, discipline and determination. After leaving the Army, Cash put his skills to work and started Titan Digital 12 years ago as a small SEO company. Through sheer grit and determination, he grew the company into a powerhouse with over 600 clients and a reputation for excellence in the industry. As an expert in marketing, business management and marketing technology, Cash's expertise has been instrumental in the growth of Titan Digital. In 2022, the company made the Inc 5000 list, a testament to Cash's leadership and dedication to his craft. But even with all of his success, Cash remains humble and focused on his mission to help businesses achieve their marketing goals and grow their bottom line. Cash, I'm so excited you're here. Thanks for being on the show.

Cash Miller: 1:10

Hey, it's great to be here. I'm stoked about doing this show today.

Intro/Outro: 1:17

Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed to help leaders intentionally grow and thrive. Here is your host author and leadership and executive coach, dr William Attaway.

Dr. William Attaway: 1:34

You know I hit some of the highlights there, but I would love for you to share some of your story with our listeners, particularly around your journey and your development as a leader.

Cash Miller: 1:44

I've been in the military and I spent seven and a half years there, and you get a lot of leadership lessons when you're in the military, both good and bad. There's some things that they do right and there's some things that you learn from and how not to do things. Yeah, and I can say that overall, though my army time is some of the At the time when you're serving you think otherwise, but afterwards, when you reflect back on it, it's one of the greatest journeys I think you can have, especially being a citizen soldier. You serve the country. Only so many people are willing to do that. I ended up deployed to Afghanistan, iraq, bosnia and Herzegovina. I lived in Germany for a while. I've lived in Texas and Colorado and Virginia. So you get, you get around a little bit and it exposes you to good leadership and also bad leadership at times. And it exposes you to good leadership and also bad leadership at times. You know it's just that's the nature. Whether it's a military organization or any business, you know you're going to have good and bad wherever you go. And then with that I've also I've got over 20 years of entrepreneurial experience.

Cash Miller: 2:59

You know I haven't worked for anybody in decades. You know, like I said, the Army's it. You know I have not held a job, worked for anybody in decades. You know, like I said, the army's it. You know I have not held a job. I'm not going to bother to say how old I am, but I haven't held a job for any, you know, with anybody else, uh, since I was 20. Um, so I'll just say that it's. You know, I'm in that third decade since I've had to work for anybody. Um, you know. So I've spent a lot of time over those years managing people, yeah, and I've run multiple businesses. I run two now. You've experienced highs, lows. You deal with people that can be great and you deal with people that are not so great, and you will think you are the greatest leader in the world and you'll be surrounded by a bunch of people that think otherwise. So there are a lot of things that you go through and you learn over time. But the longer the journey, hopefully you gain some wisdom along the way.

Dr. William Attaway: 3:59

So why digital marketing? I mean, you and I are seasoned enough to remember when digital marketing was not a thing.

Cash Miller: 4:06

Yeah, my digital marketing experience goes back to 07. So I ran a business. I have a weird journey because I spent three years in the Army, from 95 to 98. And in 98, my father said, hey, why don't you get out? You know I wasn't planning on staying in the military, I wanted to move on. And my father said, hey, you could take over the business. I'm moving into new things. And he had a small upholstery. I was in Las Vegas serviced casinos and restaurants and things like that, doing just commercial upholstery primarily and he ran it out of his one car garage. Oh, wow, yeah, and I'd worked for him a little bit on and off. You know, when I was a teenager. You know make 10 bucks an hour. You know you could hardly get me to do it unless I needed some money. So you know cause it didn't.

Cash Miller: 5:03

When you're young it's hard to have a work ethic right. It's one of the reasons I joined the Army. I said I need to get off my ass and develop a work ethic, and that is one thing that I will tell you. You know, whatever branch of the military, you will learn to be accountable for yourself or you know the things you know being accountable with, because other people rely on you, so being accountable to them too, yeah, you know. So, accountable with, because other people rely on you, so being accountable to them too, yeah, you know. So you learn a work ethic, and I think that's one of the best things about the military especially nowadays, with younger people, it can be a little bit more of a challenge. So, you know, I highly encourage, like, if you don't have direction, the military is a good way to get started. You don't have to make a career out of it. Yeah, yeah, but is a good way to get started. You don't have to make a career out of it, yeah, but so I get out and I say, okay, I'll take this over.

Cash Miller: 5:49

And my father was a lifelong entrepreneur too. I only remember him holding. He passed away at the age of 56 and um of a heart attack. But I only remember him having one job in my entire life, up to the point where he passed, uh, that he worked for three months at a budget rental car when we lived in San Diego, and then he quit and started another business. You know like he owned multiple in my life, you know, while he was around, you know, and I was growing up and it's just kind of the way my family works. So I said, hey, I'll learn. Ok, I'll do this because I can learn from you. And he taught me further the trade and when he passed, he passed in 2000.

Cash Miller: 6:30

And I was stuck in a position of having to take over and I can't just do a job Like, if I'm going to do something, if I'm going to run a business, I'm going to try to grow the business. That's my mentality. Sure, so I did over the next few years and eventually we got up to like 25 people. But the economic environment was changing, the dealing with the employees was difficult, there were so many things that I did not know. Yeah, and so I made a lot, you know a lot of mistakes. Eventually I decided that, you know, I couldn't do, I didn't want to deal with the stress or anything, and I shut it down. I was like that's, I couldn't do, I didn't want to deal with the stress or anything, and I shut it down. You know, I was like that's it, I cannot do this. Yeah, I was tired of dealing with casinos and restaurants that didn't want to pay their bills, so I shut it down. But at that point I have a wife and I have a kid and I'm like, what do I do? Okay, I still need to. I need a job. So I'm like, let me go back to the one thing. I you know the other thing. I know how to do.

Cash Miller: 7:25

So I reenlisted in the military. I rejoined the army in 2007. Yeah, so it was the end of oh six when I officially like I think it was January, oh seven somewhere in there. But I said, okay, let me go back and I re up. But now I'm a bit older and a bit wiser and stuff. And you know, I had a plan laid out. I figured I'm going to make it a career. I'm like I was burned out. I'm like I'm never running another business as long as I live. Well, I remember December of 07.

Cash Miller: 8:03

I'm like I started getting the itch almost immediately. I'm like, what can I do? I was getting ready to deploy to Iraq. I'm like I need something for my free time. I need something to occupy my mind. So I decided to build a website. I said I'm going to tell everybody else what not to do in business. Essentially, I will draw on whatever success I had and the mistakes I made and I started writing content. I launched a website.

Cash Miller: 8:27

Eventually, I said, how do I get traffic? And I started learning SEO because I started studying, I had time, you know, when I was off duty, you know to be able to learn this stuff. And that was back in the, you know, the early days of SEO. It had been around five-ish years or so. So most of the stuff, you know, any learning you were going to do was online, from other people doing. And so I was like, okay, you know, let me give a crack at it.

Cash Miller: 8:52

And now you fast forward to 2011 and my contract's coming up and I'm like, do I really want to re-up? Because by then I had two kids and I'd already spent out of a four and a half-ish year enlistment. I'd already been gone over two years, wow yeah. So between Iraq and Afghanistan and training exercises and things like that, we'd already lived in Texas and Colorado. I would have had to move again. I knew that I probably would have wanted to switch jobs.

Cash Miller: 9:19

So I'm like, weighing all of these things, I wonder if I could sell this SEO thing. Like, weighing all of these things, I'm like I wonder if I could sell this seo thing, you know, because by then I actually had a few clients that I was just doing it, you know, as a side hustle and I'm like, hey, you want to pay me. Okay, because I had some business coaches I dealt with because I would publish some of their content. They eventually asked me you know, how do you get traffic to your site? Could you help us out? Like sure, why not, you know. And eventually I'm like, well, apparently people want to actually buy this.

Cash Miller: 9:47

Yeah, so it was at that point, you know that I uh decided, okay, I'm gonna get out of the military and this time I'm gonna start from scratch. You know, my father handed me something the first time. It wasn't a great thing that he handed, it was basically me and him. And then you know the occasional part-time help that I built. But this time around it's like no, I'm going to start from the ground up, I'm going to build something of my own choosing. And so I decided you know well, it's going to be a digital marketing agency, because that's what I've been learning for the last four years on the side.

Dr. William Attaway: 10:18

Wow, that's remarkable.

Cash Miller: 10:21

Yeah, it's's. You know everybody's got a journey, so you know it gets them.

Dr. William Attaway: 10:27

You know where they are and that's the journey that I've been on, to that point, well, and I think that's exactly right, everybody has a journey.

Dr. William Attaway: 10:36

You know, and I'll often say, that there's no such thing as a wasted experience. Everything that happens in your journey is either going to be useful to you at some point or it's something that you can share with other people to benefit them. So you know, you burned out and you said I'm done with this, never going, never doing this again. And then you came back. I want to talk about that for just a minute, because there's a lot of people in the entrepreneurial space who are feeling like they're getting to that point where they're just like I hate this, I hate all of it. I've built something, but it's not what I really meant to build.

Cash Miller: 11:12

Yeah, and that can happen.

Dr. William Attaway: 11:15

Yeah, so how did you come back from that place of burnout? I mean, you went back in the military but almost immediately you were feeling the edge. What was it? Do you think that contributed to you coming back to a mindset where you were like no, this is really what I want to do.

Cash Miller: 11:29

I think part of it was is you know, I had a full-time job, okay, yeah, I'm serving and stuff, but then your mind keeps working. You know, I'm the type that my mind doesn't shut down very easily. You've got to distract it to get it to stop, you know. So you start thinking about that and you start realizing I take like books is an interesting thing. I've been a reader since I was like 13 years old and you know, and I started with fiction, you know sci-fi adventures and fantasy and things like that. And then when I joined the military my reading didn't stop. But what I read changed. I started reading more military history and when my father passed he had a small collection of old business books and things like that and I kept them Things like Peter Drucker, let's say, management guru for decades and 50 years or whatever.

Cash Miller: 12:29

Eventually I started reading a few of them out of curiosity, as much as anything. I kept, let's say, I had the itch. Even when I was in I would try a few different things. It's like, well, maybe I can make a few bucks here or a few bucks there, know, like just extra. I didn't need the money, I had a paycheck and stuff and it was able to support my family but I had a wandering mind I I needed to occupy it. And then it starts to like solidify and I think with people you have a a growth, but you have a point of burnout. You know, for certain things where you I'm amazed by the person.

Cash Miller: 13:09

I just read a really good book on uh by Jeffrey uh uh Immelt I don't know how to say his last name but um you know the one of the former CEOs of GE, and I've read Jack Welch's books and stuff too but he goes through that journey and he talks about GE and how somebody stays there for 20 years. The entrepreneur is not that person. You look at some of these serial entrepreneurs we're not the people that have 20-year careers in a single industry or for a single business, because it's just really hard. You need the journey and you need the continuous challenge, and it's just really hard. You need the journey and you need the continuous challenge. And it's not to say someone in that corporate position. They have challenges as they move up the ladder. But we need, we need I won't say bigger challenges, but different challenges.

Cash Miller: 13:56

You know, like I had run one type of business and I get back into it, you know, but it's a totally different business and I I took from the first one some lessons of like, what do I not want to do? Who do I not want to work with? What are some of the things that I hated about it? And then I say, okay, these are the things I don't have to do anymore. You know, I can make this second time around be different, and I think that's one of the things that you, you know when you start to, you know, to come to that realization I really loved. Originally I thought I loved what I did and I and I thought that meant I love the upholstery business, I love doing commercial seating. We would build restaurant booths and do these remodels and stuff, and you know, I thought I loved that. I didn't. What I did not realize is I loved being an entrepreneur. I didn't give it, I didn't really care about the business itself, what I was doing. That wasn't the love, but at the time I thought it was.

Intro/Outro: 14:51

That's good.

Cash Miller: 14:53

Yeah, so I think that's how you end up getting through it If you're truly meant to be an entrepreneur and not everybody is but if you are, it's not about what you're doing. I want to run companies. I don't even care that you know it's. I realized you know I don't love digital marketing. It's an interesting field, yeah, ok, and there is a constant learning to it, but what I love is running a business.

Dr. William Attaway: 15:21

Yeah, yeah, I can relate to that, you know. I mean my wife has said for many years you know you get bored. You know just maintaining yeah, you know, that's not how I'm wired. You know my grandfather started his own business a small kids clothing store right and ran that and sold it and retired. And my dad started his own business, you know, back in the 70s, started an advertising agency way before digital marketing Right.

Dr. William Attaway: 15:47

Yeah, it was newspaper and radio and TV Right and you know he ran that until he retired, you know, yeah, and so I've watched that my whole life. And the power and the value of that mindset, the idea of maintaining something, is not appealing to me at all, in the slightest. I would be bored out of my mind. So I get exactly what you're saying. I'm into burnout. I'm into a point where you just feel like, oh my gosh, I can't do one more day of this. I can't do that. I think it's a great indicator. Well, maybe you're not in your zone of genius, you're not operating in your sweet spot.

Cash Miller: 16:28

Yeah, there's an interesting book called Traction. You might have heard of it. Yeah, it's a great book and what it does, I mean it talks about pairing up, where you have that visionary that is great with ideas and stuff, but they're not really meant to be the day to day operator, yeah. So you have to pair them with the integrator and the integrator is the operator. They're the person that can take your and you, you know you're contributing because you, you are the idea person. You are like, hey, we could do it this way, this way, this way.

Cash Miller: 16:57

You know I am I'm not your best process person, because I don't like it, but I can do numbers, especially financial numbers, in my head all day long. I can start spitting out stuff and tell you what we're going to need. I don't want to be the person that has to implement it, but I will tell you of whatever we've got to sell, how many people it will take to sell it and how many people it will need to support it and other things we're going to have to add in. I'll tell you what you need. But but for me it's a slog, you know, to go through and be the person that's also going to implement. So I have to pair up with a good integrator. I have to make sure that I've got somebody else, you know, to execute some of the things.

Cash Miller: 17:42

Yeah, and that's the thing. And when you're in that journey, you know, because entrepreneurship is also this self discovery journey. Yes, if you said you know five years ago, I didn't need the book to point it out, well, I needed the book to point it out to me. I already knew it, but I didn't know what it was. You know, it's like I knew I already knew it, but I didn't know what it was. You know, it's like I knew I was the visionary, but it got me to accept that I wasn't the integrator.

Dr. William Attaway: 18:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely, a hundred percent. Sometimes we need framework to help us to see what we sense, but we don't have words for it yet no-transcript.

Cash Miller: 18:50

What I do read I'll read the occasional, if you know, like traction I read about a year ago or something two years ago, uh. But what I primarily read is business biographies. And I do this because, regardless of the business I am in, those journeys of how companies grow are important because I'm going to see the paths others were on the roadblocks they went in. It doesn't matter what business they were, because businesses have a lot of similar problems, so I'm learning how they overcame them. There's a bit of positivity if they had a great experience through it and they've grown to be huge. But then you also see all the roadblocks.

Cash Miller: 19:40

If the author, which is usually the founder of the business or somebody significant, if they're being honest about it, they'll tell you the ups and the downs and it keeps your own thoughts churning and thinking through and you'll find lessons that you will apply. I've always believed learning and I've got a master's degree in business management. I've always believed it's not about the degree, it's not about the book you read, it's about the. If I can take a class or read a book and I get one item out of it, one thing that sinks in with me, then it was worth doing 100%.

Dr. William Attaway: 20:19

That's how I feel about all the different things that I'm learning from, whether it's a book, a course, a podcast episode, you know. If I walk away with one big idea, something that I say, oh okay, that makes me think differently, yep, that's going to be something I can take and begin to apply. That's worth the investment of time.

Cash Miller: 20:39

Yeah, and I've always like for my own. I don't. I'm one of those probably drives my staff nuts. I'll be slow to make a decision, but once I've done it because I need it to germinate a little bit, but once I've made it, then I'm quick to execute yeah, yeah, so once I've made up my mind to do something now.

Dr. William Attaway: 20:56

We're waiting on now.

Cash Miller: 20:57

Yeah, yeah, like I'm in the process of selling my digital marketing agency. I've ruminated over that one for at least six months, but it took me about two weeks to find the buyer. Once I decided that was what I was going to do, you know, and I'll be closed out in no time. So you know, that's the thing it's and I'm part of why I'm doing it is because I needed to go through that experience, because I'm ready for my next challenge. I'm doing it is because I needed to go through that experience, because I'm ready for my next challenge. I don't want to operate that business anymore and I know what I'm going to do next.

Cash Miller: 21:30

So I think, as entrepreneurs you know, I always marvel at the ones that are like serial entrepreneurs and stuff, I don't know like I applaud them for their ability to build a business quickly and then exit. You know, but yeah, um and then exit. But I think each one is its own journey and I don't think you have to be. That's one of the realizations I've come to is you don't have to just settle for that. I thought I would run the agency until retirement or whatever, and now I'm of a totally different mind, and part of it was is. I think running into retirement was going to stifle my own growth.

Dr. William Attaway: 22:08

Yeah, you know, and listening to you talk about this, it's, it's just completely evident that you are a perpetual learner from so many different inputs in your life. So I want to pose this question to you. I mean, you know, you are not the same leader that you were five years ago, 10 years ago.

Cash Miller: 22:25

I don't know, definitely not.

Dr. William Attaway: 22:27

And five years from now, you're going to need to lead at a different level for your next chapter. What are you doing to level up? What do you do to stay on top of your game and develop the skills that you're going to need five years from now to be the leader you're going to need to be?

Cash Miller: 22:44

One of the things that I'm you know, let's say I mean, besides being a perpetual like, I'm reading constantly and stuff and I'm looking for you know different stories so I can understand people's journeys One of the things I'm realizing it's part of it's self-realization for me to be a better leader. I'm actually working on being more hands-off, so I look at some of my own weaknesses and some of the things that I would do differently in how I've led. I give you an example of one of the lessons I learned is don't interrupt the staff. I may need something right, I may want something in the moment, but if I ask for that something of any staff member, it doesn't matter what they're doing. I'm the boss, so they'll immediately drop whatever they're doing. And I have to be I had to learn to be cognizant of the fact that they would do that and I don't want them to do that. That's not what I asked. But if I don't, if I so I have to look for other ways, you know, to go about um, getting the things done that I need. So I've learned to step back To be a good leader. I need to be. In my case, because of my own journey, I want more oversight, less involved in the day-to-day. I want to be less involved in the day-to-day, so I have to get better at picking good leaders. For me to be able to get better as a leader, I've got to get better at picking other leaders and then just focusing on training them to be leaders, you know, enhancing their skill set, rather than worry about every individual person within my organization and what they do do. If I train the person under me to do better and I pick good people to do it also, you know and they don't have to have my exact leadership style or philosophy or anything One of the earliest things like all the way back, you know, my days of the upholstery, I would teach people how to do a job right.

Cash Miller: 24:41

I've always been, I've always been a believer that if you're going to ask people to do jobs and you're going to know that they did them right, you better know how they do them. You know, sure. So in that particular business, anything that they did I could do myself. Yeah, military is often like that too. Digital marketing, I can do a lot of things. Yeah, that's right, I'm not a coder. But what I always told them at the time I said look, I'm going to tell you, I'm going to show you how to do it. I'm going to show you my way of doing it. My way is not necessarily going to be your way, and I would always pose the challenge. I said you can do this job any way you want, as long as you can do it better than I can.

Intro/Outro: 25:25

I don't care.

Cash Miller: 25:26

I don't care the method you use. If you have a better, if you're faster at it, if you're more accurate at it, whatever it is, I don't care how you get it done. If you're doing it better than I can do it, you need to do it my way, that's right. So, yeah, because everybody, you know, depending on what the kind of the job it is, you would learn. You know you're going to figure out a different approach. That's what the challenge was, you know, figure out how you can make it better, how you can do it better than I guess.

Cash Miller: 25:55

Yeah, um, I had an instance the other the other day. You know, I'm saying it's a growth of a leader. I've got an, an employee, um, and she was struggling with something and, uh, I decided I was going to help her out, you know. And so I kind of dug in and needed some research and I found her a tool that is like this, like lifesaver, saver for you know, um huge time saver, uh, saves a lot of frustration. And I found it online and it costs 150 bucks a month. Okay, great, this thing's going to work. Showed it, they love it. Multiple employees are now using the tool. I told them, I said my job is not. My job as a leader is to make your job easier.

Intro/Outro: 26:38

Yes.

Cash Miller: 26:39

That's what I ended up telling them, because you know so. It's not for me to do your job, but if I can help make it easier and you're happier and more productive than I've done, what I'm supposed to.

Dr. William Attaway: 26:51

Ash, I wish more people understood exactly what you just said. The job of a leader is not to get things done, it's to get things done through other people, to resource them, empower them, encourage them, invest in them so that they will get the job done. So well said.

Cash Miller: 27:09

Yeah, and so that's where I'm focusing, like, okay, my own journey. The next level I want it has more oversight and less in the day-to-day, which means I have to focus on. How do I make those day-to-day people, though, so good that I don't have to worry about replacing them because they're great at their job. You know and I can be. Let's say, as I get a little older I want to be a bit more hands off, but I can have that trust that the operation is going to run smoothly.

Dr. William Attaway: 27:41

You know, if you were able to go back to the beginning of your entrepreneurial journey, given what you know now, go back and tell yourself one thing, one piece of advice what would you love to go back and tell yourself?

Cash Miller: 27:55

I think, yeah, I mean, there's so many things that you could actually tell yourself, yeah, if you were to go back, um, but I think one of the things like I'm not a micromanager, I don't like doing it, but I think I would tell myself that they needed to focus more on the people yeah, so I could, so it would be less necessary. You know companies often, yeah, and it's a lesson I've learned later but companies often end up in the problem of they want to fill a seat. You know they, I have a position, I need someone to do that, you know can fill it. And one of the hardest things I think of yeah, for any business owner, is hiring. Yeah, I had this like I don realization a number of years ago because my first business we had a lot of turnover and the functions themselves, the things that you needed the employees to do, they were. You know, you could take a lot of unskilled labor, you could train them to do a job, but we often had problems with people showing up. It was one of the things I hated about it. They were showing up. You know they would either not show up, they would do something wrong. We'd have to fix it, we'd be covering and I would ultimately let them go, you know, if we had enough problems, and I would tell people.

Cash Miller: 29:14

You know, I thought of it wrong, almost like this badge of honor, that I'd fired so many people, so many people. Yeah, I was like you know, it's not a big deal to me because I've done all that you know I've. And then I eventually I came to the realization and this is what I I wish I would have realized had I paid more attention the mistake was on me. Yeah, because I realized, you know, it's like, I think I I think I used to say something like along the lines of like my career, I've fired like 400 people. It ain't no big deal. No, if I did that many and I don't think I actually did but everyone that I fired meant I made a mistake hiring, for whatever reason I, you know, maybe I refuse, maybe I decided that you know their skillset warrants, that we need it, and I would overlook that. I didn't think that they were a fit for the team or vice versa, they were a great fit but they lacked the skill set, for whatever reason. If I had to let them go, it means that I probably made the mistake in the first place hiring them. Or I had somebody else vet them and I didn't talk to them enough. Because hiring you can have this, and I've hired a lot of people over the years and I didn't talk to them enough. You know, because hiring you can have this, you know, and I've hired a lot of people over the years and I have let people go. But you you end up with a resume in front of you. It's got all these qualifications. You try to get to know the person, but how much can you really get to know them? And I and I totally understand big corporations They'll throw you through five different interviews and all of these things. Small businesses don't have the time to do that, to have that whole vetting process. So I think that would be the thing is to figure out ways so that I could pay more attention to who we were hiring.

Cash Miller: 31:03

Hiring is don't go from the position of need, whether you need them or not. You have to hire from the position of I really want this person. This person is going to be really good. If I need the person, it doesn't matter.

Cash Miller: 31:19

I had an instance where I hired an SEO guy for the team six months ago or so and everybody was bugging me we need this guy, we need this guy, we need this guy.

Cash Miller: 31:32

And I was like, no, I'm like we need the guy, I agree, but I haven't found the guy.

Cash Miller: 31:38

I had interviewed multiple people and because of that pressure, I could have made a bad hire and I refused to do it and I ended up pressure, I could have made a bad hire and I refused to do it and I ended up taking I don't know three or four weeks or something. But then I found the guy and then when I found him, I hired him. He's been great, you know, I think he's one of my best hires. But had I gone from that pressure standpoint of we've got to, if I go from that position, I'm going to, yeah, I'll get somebody. But If I go from that position I'm going to, yeah, I'll get somebody, but it doesn't mean we're going to get the right person. And I think that's one of the biggest things that I would tell myself you need to be more patient when you hire so that you can properly vet them and make sure that they're going to be a fit, and don't do it because you have to fill that spot Such good advice.

Dr. William Attaway: 32:23

When you operate out of a mindset of scarcity, you know that's when you're tempted to just, oh, we just got to get it done, it's got to get done. And you make those kinds of mistakes.

Cash Miller: 32:31

I've done that.

Dr. William Attaway: 32:32

I've done that more than once these days, with the benefit of evaluated experience. The what I tell our team frequently is better nobody than the wrong body.

Cash Miller: 32:44

Yeah, that's what I, you know. It took me a long time to learn that, yeah, and you know. But having done, you know, having learned it, and yeah, that's the way I, you know, I tend to operate. Now it's like, cause, I'll bring them back in for an extra interview because I'll go off a gut instinct or whether I think that they're a good fit or not. But if they raise any red flags with me, if you end up hiring and firing people a lot over the years, eventually your gut, hopefully, your instinct, gets better. Hopefully, yeah, hopefully, because you can only learn so much from what you read on paper, right, yeah, exactly yeah.

Cash Miller: 33:23

So that's one of my biggest things is, you know, when I'm looking at it, it's what position am I in? Because if I'm in that scarcity, if I think I got to fill that position right at this moment, then I need to take a step back because I'm going to end up making the wrong choice potentially versus you know. Wrong choice potentially, you know, versus you know. I can wait it out a little bit, because this, you know, I say because you feel like this person in front of you, I need to fill the position, but there's something about it. Yeah, it says this is not the person I need. I need to wait this out a little bit. Yeah, you don't want to. You don't want paralysis from it. Yeah, exactly yeah, but but yeah, that's the thing. So that's what I would tell myself, having dealt with so many people over so many years.

Dr. William Attaway: 34:09

Is there a book that you've come across that has really benefited you in a significant way that you would recommend that the leaders listening add to their to read list?

Cash Miller: 34:19

I've read so many books. I got a couple. One of the of my list is, uh, shoe dog, you know, which you might have read. Yeah, uh, you know, because phil knight, you know, the founder of nike I, I think his is an um, he's.

Cash Miller: 34:36

The book itself is an interesting story because he's like 85 years old or something and he wrote it about I guess four or five years ago now, but when before he, when he decided to write the book, I don't remember what school he went to, but he went back to school to take creative writing so he could write the whole thing. There's no ghostwriter involved. Yeah, he said I'm going, this is my story and I'm going to tell it. You know, the whole thing. And the thing is is his whole journey is just incredible.

Cash Miller: 35:13

Yeah, it wasn't always Nike, you know, it was a blue ribbon sports, you know, and Bill Knight was a runner, I think it was Oregon State and that's what he did you know like. And he gets into this business and he starts selling you running shoes, uh, tigers in the, uh, you know, like late 60s and then early 70s, you know, and eventually he I mean if, if you want to see adversity that's overcome. You know the uh. The movie air that came out recently is a nice compliment. If you've read the first thing, then some of that makes even more sense.

Intro/Outro: 35:43

Yeah.

Cash Miller: 35:44

You know. So I think that one's a really good one. I like the attraction book, you know, because it's a. It kind of makes you a little bit more self-aware of who you are If you, because as you go through and you see, you know who is the integrator versus who is that visionary person and you kind of helps you decide potentially who you are more, so you know which which of those people you know.

Cash Miller: 36:05

But, um, you know, there's, like I say, there's just so many really good books. What I always encourage is, uh, if you're going to read business books, look at the different stories. That's because there's so many that have come out and I've read and the idea is that you're absorbing from all of these different points of view. You know I've read books on IBM. I've read books on Walmart, target, dollar General yeah, was it? Dick's Sporting Goods, like I don't. You know I've read books on, you know, grubhub and stuff like that, and I cite that book. That is a really good book too. In fact, that's a really good book for people that are looking at. Are they done?

Cash Miller: 36:54

Are they burned out and stuff like that. I can't think of the guy's name, but the founder of Grubhub. Eventually he was able to exit. When he tells the story and this is what makes it fascinating he decided to do the cross-country bicycling marathon deal. It wasn't a marathon, but he cycled from the east to the west coast. He's telling the story of the company and how he founded it, how he grew it and everything. At the same time. He's telling you the story of this journey, of this cross country trip. Yeah, and yeah, like I say, it's the company, it's for Grubhub, so you'll be able to find it.

Cash Miller: 37:36

I think that is a really interesting journey because of that, those dual points of view. You know here I was inside the business and all the things I went through all the way to his own exit. And also he goes on the journey. He talks about how he used to work, basically 80 hours a week and he did it for 10 years. So if you ain't burned out after that, I don't know what, yeah, you got more stamina than I do. Yeah, so he goes. You know, 80 hour weeks for you know, let's say, like 10 years straight. Just everything is about the company and I think that's the thing is and that's why I really like this book. He goes on this cross country trip as a way of rediscovering himself and I think that's what entrepreneurs you know.

Cash Miller: 38:28

I love what I do as an entrepreneur, so coming in on a Saturday or Sunday is not a big deal for me. I don't. I do it because I want to and I got something I want to work on. I'm not forced to do it. But if you feel like it's a chore, if you feel like you don't want to do it anymore, you're starting to burn out and you've got to take time for yourself to rediscover the things that you really, why you even became an entrepreneur. I did it not for the money. I did it for the freedom. I don't like being told what to do I want. I don't want to be because I end up with a lot of ideas. I don't want to be impaired. I don't want somebody else, you know, stifling my creativity. So if I'm the guy in charge, that can never happen. Yeah, that's true, but sometimes. But sometimes you've got to remember that he's since gone on to a lot of them, go on to venture capital and stuff like that and coaching other founders and stuff. Yeah, um, but I think that's a really good story. Because of that, I need to find myself again all right, and you can continue to to run your business and still end up in that position. Yeah, I, uh, it's um.

Cash Miller: 39:33

I have part of our digital marketing team in costa rica and, uh, I went down and I visited them in like april and I've been toying around like of whether I wanted to keep doing this for a while and I and the point where I actually realized that I didn't want to not this particular, I wanted to be an entrepreneur, but not this particular business anymore I went down there for about a week, spent time with the team they were all great and everything you know going out to dinners and working together during the day. We have about I think it's 15 staffers now and I came back like part of it, I didn't. I came back and realized I didn't even enjoy half the trip. I should have enjoyed all of it. Like this, I'm getting away. Not only am I getting to work with these people that I don't deal with every day, except on Teams and Zoom and stuff like that. I'm going down there and exploring this beautiful country and I did some really cool things.

Cash Miller: 40:34

But I came back. I should have been relaxed, I should have been like, hey, this is great, I'm freaking, fired up and ready to go. And that was not what. What happened? I came back and the next day I had, um, an employee asked me some question that, uh, it was one of those things of why the in my mind, what happened was why the hell are you asking me? And I snapped and I ended up getting oh yeah, I got, and I later apologized to her because I realized what I did. But I was like, instead of coming back relaxed, I was at the end of my you know end of what I could do. You know, like I you know end of my rope, I was done.

Cash Miller: 41:17

And I think that's what, if you get to that point as an entrepreneur and this word goes back to that Grubhub you understood that that was like my moment of reckoning to say it's time to move on. It's not that I don't have to be, I'm going to be an entrepreneur, I'm just going to run something else because it's time for me to exit what I'm doing. I think, as entrepreneurs, we got to know when to say when you cannot. I know the business is you and you are the business. Now you got to know when to let go, and I think that is important. I think it's important for your health, your mental sanity. Sometimes maybe you just can't take the business any further, and someone else can, but it opens up a realm of possibilities for you if you just think about it and you take the time to set yourself up for the exit. Ask me a year ago of whether I'd want to exit, I would say no. My instinct was a no. The reality, when I came to accept it, was yeah, actually I am.

Dr. William Attaway: 42:21

Cass, this has been so fascinating and I feel like I could talk with you for another hour. There's so much insight that you've shared today and you know learning when it's okay to turn that page and say it's time for the next chapter, I think, is such a big takeaway for me for sure, and I know, for so many of those listening. I know people are going to want to stay connected with you and continue to learn from you.

Cash Miller: 42:50

What is the best way for them to do that? Well, linkedin is one of the best ways. I've got like 5,000 something connections nowadays Because there's not many people with my name Cash, so I actually get the LinkedIn handle that just says Cash. I think it's Cash Miller.

Cash Miller: 42:59

Something on there. I don't have any numbers or anything, so that's one of the best ways you can also uh find me for the new company. It's uh, my email is cash at uh type media works with an xcom. Um, you know so, and you can check us out on there. But, yeah, that's like, say, linkedin's the best way. I'm on there pretty often, uh, connect with a lot of people and, yeah, and of course, you know, we do podcast production for my new business and we've been you and yeah, and of course, you know we do podcast production for my new business and we've been, you know, interviewing some great guests, you know, on some of the shows we do.

Cash Miller: 43:30

So, uh, you know, and we've got different shows that we put on on a small business, deliveredcom, which is fascinating in itself because that site when I said I started a website in 2007 and it was originally articles and you know what would be blog posts now and stuff um, and it was all management and marketing and everything it was that domain I kept it. Wow, yeah, I kept it all these uh years. I shut the original site down in like 2014 or something. Um, it had a thousand articles at the time or something, but I didn't maintain it anymore.

Cash Miller: 44:07

Uh, you know, because I had a lot of business coaches that had let me republish their content, things like that. And it's funny too, in running um, my podcast I've reconnected with some of those coaches, yeah, so that has been just like really surreal. But that that site. So we said, um, so we published different uh, we have different shows on there and on the site, so I've got a couple and we've got other uh hosts and stuff and it's all business shows. So the fact that it could come back to life, yeah.

Cash Miller: 44:37

Yeah, in a in a different content form than original, but the but it's still the same idea. You know we're using, we're putting podcasts on there, but it's still the same idea. You know we're using, we're putting podcasts on there, but it's still the same idea. It's business coaches that are on there and say I run a marketing one and I talk to franchises. So I think that part is like straight incredible. Um. Last note, I'll say on that part too, because with businesses it was funny. Um, a long time ago I wrote some articles for that site and I wrote them on some big companies like ups, I think, subway and stuff like that, and in a couple of them wikipedia cited my articles and it was there that I found my information. So, yeah, I find awesome. Yeah, like I said, I find it, let's say it's very. It's an interesting full circle journey to end up back where I'm actually building that site out again and promoting it. You know it's a different type of business that I'm using it for, but the original point still exists for it.

Dr. William Attaway: 45:42

Well, I can't wait to see what your next chapter looks like with podcast promotion and what you're doing with this new company and this site. I'm looking forward to seeing what this next chapter is going to be, because I think my guess is it's going to be your best one yet.

Cash Miller: 45:58

That's the hope, you know, and I'm looking forward to it, the new journey that it is, I will say, the business that I'm creating now. My new mantra is simple, simple, simple, Keep it. You know, it's the KISS principle. Kiss principle is that it Yep, Because digital marketing that, like the first one, I learned some of the people I didn't want to deal with, you know, just because of some of the headaches. You know the type of labor and things that I didn't want to experience. The second one, it was a matter of the complicated nature. Yeah, so now, okay, Now I know to keep this one a little bit more straightforward so it's easier to manage, in which case I don't have to be there every day.

Dr. William Attaway: 46:41

The goal of every entrepreneur I've ever met. Yeah right Cash. Thank you, I really appreciate your generosity today.

Cash Miller: 46:51

It was great being here. I really enjoyed being on your show.

Dr. William Attaway: 46:56

Thanks for joining me for this episode today. As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode, and if you find value here, I'd love it if you would rate it and review it. That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast. Second, if you don't have a copy of my newest book, catalytic Leadership, I'd love to put a copy in your hands. If you go to catalyticleadershipbookcom, you can get a copy for free. Just pay the shipping so I can get it to you and we'll get one right out.

Dr. William Attaway: 47:33

My goal is to put this into the hands of as many leaders as possible. This book captures principles that I've learned in 20 plus years of coaching leaders in the entrepreneurial space, in business, government, nonprofits, education and the local church. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about. And if you're ready to take a next step with a coach to help you intentionally grow and thrive as a leader, I'd be honored to help you. Just go to catalyticleadershipnet to book a call with me. Stay tuned for our next episode next week. Until then, as always, leaders choose to be catalytic.

Intro/Outro: 48:16

Thanks for listening to Catalytic Leadership with Dr William Attaway. Be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss the next episode. Want more? Go to catalyticleadershipnet.