Catalytic Leadership

Fostering Connections in a Digital World, with Emanuel Rose

February 05, 2024 Dr. William Attaway Season 2 Episode 29
Catalytic Leadership
Fostering Connections in a Digital World, with Emanuel Rose
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Embark on a captivating odyssey with Emanuel Rose, the branding virtuoso and digital marketing whiz, as we uncover the pillars of his success that began with childhood seed sales and blossomed into a flourishing digital empire. His unyielding conviction to never turn away a client and his unique approach to business, fostering a relationship that resembles love, is a testament to his triumphant strategy. We navigate the choppy waters of marketing trends, dissecting the resurgence of interruption marketing, and offer sage advice for businesses seeking to anchor themselves in the digital landscape.

As the world spins at a dizzying digital pace, we find sanctuary in the unexpected calm of nature's embrace. Emanuel shares his own literary adventure, capturing the essence of solitude's healing touch in the great outdoors. We chart a course through the seven steps essential for harmonizing the relentless demands of leadership with the soul-soothing tranquility found beyond the office window. Awaiting the release of Emanuel's new book, we anticipate the ripple effect it will have on leaders yearning for a sustainable balance in their hectic lives.

Closing our conversation with a focus on the horizon of leadership, we underscore the imperative of perpetual learning to outpace the ever-evolving future. As AI redefines the playing field, the spotlight on coaching and enduring education shines brighter than ever. Emanuel and I reflect on the potential business shifts on the near-term horizon, predicting an increased emphasis on strategic thinking and relationship cultivation in marketing. Join us as we celebrate the irreplaceable value of human connection in an automated world, and consider connecting with Emmanuel through LinkedIn for more  inspiring leadership insights.

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Meet Dr. William Attaway, your guide to peak performance. As a seasoned Executive Mindset and Leadership Coach with nearly 30 years of experience, William empowers high-performance entrepreneurs and agency owners to conquer challenges and maximize their potential. Join him on the Catalytic Leadership podcast as he shares insights on achieving Clear-Minded Focus, Calm Control, & Confidence, helping you thrive in business and life.

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Speaker 1:

Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed to help leaders intentionally grow and thrive. Here is your host author and leadership and executive coach, dr William Attaway.

Speaker 2:

Hey, it's William and welcome to today's episode of the Catalytic Leadership podcast. Each week, we tackle a topic related to the field of leadership. My goal is to ensure that you have actionable steps you can take from each episode to grow in your own leadership. Growth doesn't just happen. My goal is to help you become intentional about it. Each week, we spotlight leaders from a variety of fields, organizations and locations. My goal is for you to see that leaders can be catalytic, no matter where they are or what they lead. I draw inspiration from the stories and journeys of these leaders, and I hear from many of you that you do too. Let's jump in to today's interview. I'm so excited today to have Emmanuel Rose on the podcast. Emmanuel is a renowned expert in his field. He specializes in branding, advertising and day-to-day operations at his digital agency, strategic eMarketing. He has spent over three decades earning a reputation in cutting-edge marketing. He's passionately helping companies achieve business success from the bottom to the top. Emmanuel's unique approach to marketing strategies has resulted in countless clients reaching their goals. He enjoys learning his craft and implementing new techniques and theories for his clients not only in his home state of Oregon but around the world. Together with his hand-selected staff. Emmanuel creates opportunities while solving challenges in the ever-changing digital landscape. He is a firm believer in using his personal experiences to help others. Emmanuel, I'm so glad you're here. Thanks for being on the show.

Speaker 3:

Thanks for having me, William. I'm looking forward to our conversation you too.

Speaker 2:

I would love for you to share some of your story with our listeners, Emmanuel, particularly around your journey and your development as a leader. How did you get started?

Speaker 3:

Well, I started out as one of those crazy four-year-old kids who wanted to get a boomerang but had to sell seeds door-to-door to get the money to buy the boomerang Nice.

Speaker 2:

I love it. I'm an entrepreneur at four.

Speaker 3:

Parents walked me around and put the little thing up to the lady and she orders two pumpkin packs, that sort of thing. Nice, that's just how I think I was wired. I love sales and marketing. I've done it obviously my whole life. I started my first mail order company when I was 18. Wow, I did. It was back in the early days of the rebound of hemp, the fabric and twine and all those things. I had a company. I would make hemp bracelets. I'd take them to festivals and sell bracelets and then just start to be more and more products. I sold that mail order. I loved going to the mailbox and having orders there. Yes, like getting the email from your website. Now it says, hey, you have an order, that's right. Woo-hoo, I have to go to the PO box to do that, yeah. Then over the years I worked for a few companies as product manager, which is really a good sales and marketing combo rule. I had a big bonus that I got reneged on after I did my part. The rule I had right after that was brought in to be a change agent. They told me not to do anything for 90 days. Then, after 90 days, they fired me. What I was sitting with myself, counseling myself like this isn't going to work. It says about 14 years ago, that's when social media was just really starting to take off as an obvious track and path of advertising in marketing, I got one chapter ahead of a couple of companies and got a few clients, some of which I still have after this entire time my goodness, they're patient companies. Now it's flipped where I'm one chapter ahead again.

Speaker 2:

I love it as long as you stay one chapter ahead. That's all you need, right? Yeah, exactly. That speaks volumes For somebody to retain a client in the digital marketing landscape for 14 years. That's pretty unusual. What would you say? How would you say, you've done?

Speaker 3:

Well, I think you know, we as leaders, as entrepreneurs, as business managers, we're always looking to kind of balance that how much do I give to my clients and where am I in a negative margin situation and how much is my time worth? And I'm pretty much, I just I never say no and I'm like that with all my clients. I never say no and I want what they want as much as they want it right, like, and some people understand that and can connect with that and some people have a hard time understanding that and get lost from that conversation. But that's what I breed in myself, that's what I breed in my team and we just pretty much never say no. Sometimes we say yes, and you know, and I need to bill you, or yes, and I'll take it on and we'll make that our expense. But it's really, it's a formal love, I think right, where you care about somebody else and their concerns as much as you care about yourself.

Speaker 2:

You've been in this business long enough that I bet you can see trend lines like over a long distance. You know people who are brand new to the field. They haven't been in it long enough to see that. But with your experience and track record, what trend lines are you seeing right now that you think businesses need to be aware of?

Speaker 3:

Well, the first one, and I'm shocked that this has become an issue again. But we're back in this interruption marketing space with pop-ups, especially this time of year. It's insane. I did a search for a turkey vest for my son-in-law Turkey Honey Vest and I want to get him the nice one with all the stuff right. Go to a website through Google search and I don't just get one pop-up which is asking me for my information, to get a discount for putting in my email, but then I get a second pop-up on top of their first pop-up. Oh man.

Speaker 2:

Persistent.

Speaker 3:

At that point I just hit the X and I went to next right. This is not my job to give you my information. Your job is to give me the product that I want and to do it in the quickest time possible.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 3:

And there's lots of competition out there and you lose money by being what I call lazy marketer, and that's a programming issue that that company has right. They didn't think through their funnel at all and interruption marketing is one trend that I think we're gonna see disappear because of that.

Speaker 2:

I hope so. I hope you're right.

Speaker 3:

I hope so. Pop-up blocker. It's time for that old yahoo pop-up blocker.

Speaker 2:

That's right. Bring it out of mothballs.

Speaker 3:

I think the other thing that I've seen is that and again it's in the lazy marketer category, which is this spray and pray mentality that the marketing agencies and businesses are having. You know you're getting emails and text messages that got the wrong name in it, that got a blank where the name goes, so you know immediately that it's nothing you ever signed up for and it's not anything that you're interested in at this time. So I think the and this is where AI can help us with the hyper-personalization if you take the time to craft it properly. But we have to come from a philosophy of hyper-personalization and that. For instance, I just got a new client that does IT services. He's really concerned about his sales process, so I bought him one of my favorite books by Anthony Anorino, who's a B2B sales genius. I got him some notepads with his name and his company logo on them and that's my thank you and welcome gift is very personalized stuff, not anything about me, it's all about him. So that hyper-personalization is one of the trends that we need to pay attention to in order to stand out as small business, because we can't compete on the spray and pray.

Speaker 2:

That's good. So I have to ask, being a book lover as I am, what's the name of the book that you got?

Speaker 3:

Let's see this one, anthony, and Anthony is a prolific writer. He's this one is elite sales strategy, and the simple part of it, from his perspective, is to do exactly what you're saying, which is, what are the trends that are coming up, and then how do you present options to capture those trends for your clients and how do you build that custom plan based on what their objectives are?

Speaker 2:

That's really. That's really in Typhoon, I think anybody who's in the space whether they're in marketing agency world or just an entrepreneur starting their own business if they're not aware of those type of trend lines, if they're not a student of the space, a perpetual student of the space it's so easy to fall behind at the pace at which things are moving. Has that been your experience?

Speaker 3:

Absolutely, and I think I call it the engineer effect. Right, like we engineer this product or service me as an agency owner, I've got these things I like to sell right that are high margin. We can crank them out, it's easy peasy. But if the client doesn't need it, I'm not trying to fit them into that product or trying to fit my product into what they need, right, it's so good. So that over engineer is one of the challenges that we fall into and that we get out of date because of that philosophy.

Speaker 2:

You know, I would love to unpack that just for a minute because I think that's so good. Not taking your favorite product and making it fit everybody, no matter whether they need it or not. That's a trap, and that is a trap I see a lot of people falling into. How do you avoid that? How are you intentional about avoiding that trap?

Speaker 3:

It is. For me, it's about listening to what listening and summarizing in that Carl Rogers process. So what I'm hearing you say is ABC, is that accurate? And they say, yeah, well, if you prioritize that, what's the list of priorities? Where do you think 80% more income could come from? Whatever those questions are based on what their outcomes are. That's what I'm digging into and, for the instance, this IT company, I heard four things. I helped him prioritize the list because he wasn't sure, and the CEO, and so then that's the scope of work, and then, as we got deeper into contract, he's like well, I think these three things are really the things that are the issue, and the fourth thing we can deal with later like, okay, cool, Okay, yeah. So that's my goal is to listen, reflect and then build the program for them, and I'm going to be able to do some of my favorite things that are high margin, easy peasy, but under the sconce of his needs, not my needs.

Speaker 2:

So well said, I think spending that around and looking at their needs first and that's what I'm hearing that intentionality of asking the right questions is you're never going to get the right answers unless you ask the right questions and then listen and leveraging active listening so I'm hearing you say that. So, so, so, spot on. So these are trends that we've talked about like trends from the past going forward into the present. What do you see out there? What do you see in the future, like? Is there stuff that you see on the horizon for marketers that and it's starting to emerge? I mean AI, of course, is all the rage, everybody's talking AI, but what do you see, given your track?

Speaker 3:

I think there's a. We're going to reach an uncomfortable spot here, with the AI in particular. Right, Because right now, good use of AI requires us, as marketers, to think like a programmer, and I'll tell you, I'm not good at that. I'm a philosopher, I'm a big picture thinker. I can write 10 strategic plans in the next hour for 10 different industries, but I can't write an AI prompt.

Speaker 2:

You can chat GPT to give you exactly what you want, right.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, right, like that. So, but it's getting sophisticated now, for we're going to be able to layer on keywords, persona look at this blog post and look at these 10 LinkedIn posts from this executive team, where we can build out a 25-layer prompt that then can generate not just a content calendar and 90 days of email and 150 social posts and images and a product description. I mean it'll and not the too distant future we're going to be able to get all that content and then somebody's going to have to read that and make sure it's on point, there's no hallucinations in it, and that it's on brand and on influencer brand, but we still are going to have to have some amount of philosophy and creativity, right that? So? So we're going to end up with these marketing engineers who can speak that, and then we're going to. We're still going to need marketing philosophers, like the space that I inhabit, but there's going to be less need for less of me.

Speaker 2:

Which is not the worst thing, right? Because then it frees you up to do the things that only you can do.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it'll free me up to go spend more time outside meditating. Which brings me to another question.

Speaker 2:

We had talked previously, and you mentioned that you're finishing a book on solitude in nature. Now, that is not something I would have expected somebody in the digital marketing world to be writing. I would love to hear more about that project.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so I'm a lifelong outdoorsman. I was lucky to get born into a family that taught me to fly fish and hunt at a young age and we were campers and backpackers my whole life. And so, as I was working on my book about authentic marketing to Gen Z and understanding how technology is impacting our brain and developing tick-tock brain and lack of impulse control and all the biochemical changes that are not positive, I thought about it and I was like, well, so that means I need to work on this other book. That's the antidote for that, because I don't want to just contribute to the problem and see the problem, I want to do something about it, love that and then, through my reflection, which my commitment to myself is, that a week a month I spend outside disconnected, and that's because that's what it takes to enjoy my hobbies, and I always wrap in absolute solitude, disconnected time, and then come to find out all the challenges that are listed biochemically are neutralized by the activity that I'm doing. So there's kind of a natural balance, which is probably why I've been able to do this for as long as I have and not have to put a pin in it and do something different in terms of being connected to digital marketing. So, anyway, that's the genesis of it. What I outline in the book is it's a simple seven-step process that is about planning and about picking a spot where you're safe and having people look at you if they need to from a distance, and spending time either listening to good content that are podcasts are going to encourage you to think about what it is to be a human, spend time praying, meditating, whatever your religious philosophy is and then build a list of activities you're going to do once you get back, and then stay in touch with it through that special time in the morning to pray or meditate every day, and that's what keeps me full, keeps me energetic and keeps me able to do what I do, and the science backs it up that those activities are important for high performers.

Speaker 2:

I talk to so many people who are struggling because they are all caught up in the hustle and grind culture In the digital marketing world. I think that is just normal. Just run harder, run faster, deliver more and then rinse and repeat. What you're describing is very countercultural to that, because you're making sure that you get what you need. You're making sure your cup is full before you try to pour it out for somebody else. You're not trying to serve your clients with the leftovers. You're making sure you're in a healthy spot so you can serve them at the highest capacity level.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and stay in touch with who am I and why am I here? Right, and it's not just to be an earning unit in the economy, right, there's a lot more about being a human being and, like you're saying, I'm able to provide much better services to my clients and to my team as the leader if I'm in a space of being grounded and centered and understanding what our objectives are.

Speaker 2:

And I imagine if I were to talk to your team members, they would be thrilled that you do that, because it makes you a healthy leader. You're leading them from a healthy place, from a balanced place.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, exactly, I'm able to see the big picture and when there are the scrapes and tussles, either internally or with the clients that I can be the ground going to bring us back to, okay, well, what is our purpose here? And do we cut this client loose because they're too complicated psychologically, or is it on our side and do we figure some things out and not get into the struggle and the survival mentality?

Speaker 2:

That's so good. I can't wait to read your book. When is it supposed to come out?

Speaker 3:

Well, I'm in the final edits right now, so I would think sometime in December I'll probably be able to get some advanced copies out. Yeah, I look forward to that.

Speaker 2:

I think that's going to be an outstanding addition to the bookshelf of every leader who's listening, because I find that I really don't encounter a whole lot of people who lead from a place of calm control, who lead from a place of balance. Too many people are trying to run at a pace that is unhealthy and unsustainable, and I think your book is going to be on the solution side to that problem.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and that is the challenge right, we do. I mean there's a balance between working hard enough and long enough hours to get new product or service over that hump right. So we know we have to go through these periods of hard work, but we also have to have these little periods of celebration or relax, and a lot of times we do that with our group or a team or a family and that's cool. But then we've got to have time for ourselves. Otherwise, like you're talking about, we end up and you get that 20 years later I've balanced between six jobs and I've been running as hard as I can and nothing worked and I'm not happy and my wife's not happy, my kids don't want to talk to me and that's no way to live.

Speaker 2:

We know that. Yeah, but too many people that's what they think is what it takes to win, and I put win in quotes because that's not winning. You and I both, I think would agree on that. Let me ask you, Manuel you're a different leader today than you were five years ago, and your business is going to need you to lead at a better and higher level a year or five years from now than where you are today. What do you do to intentionally level up? How do you make sure you're going to be the leader you need to be a year or five years from now?

Speaker 3:

But absolutely paying attention to the trends. And so AI, obviously in marketing spaces and I don't even know what's going on with AI in other spaces because it's so all encompassing in this space. So paying attention to the trends and understanding how we're going to have to morph and change and be what it is to be an agency in a year. And how do I see that transpiring and how do I find those clients? Because I'm still the primary salesperson for my agency. So that's one thing. The other thing is that I get coaching, I get help and I'm very committed. I'm a committed lifelong learner. If I'm reading, I'm watching, I'm listening to podcasts and books, and then have a coach. If you look at a professional golfer or professional football player people at the highest levels of their art they have a team of seven or eight coaches. Yeah, they do. So the continuing learning and coaching and then trying things out and seeing what works and what doesn't work and where do I work and I implement things and where can I not implement things and I have to get help doing it because I'm inadequate in that space and I'm okay with that. I know who I am. I'm a philosopher, I'm a big picture guy. I'm never going to do my own accounting because of that.

Speaker 2:

I love that. I think that is maturity, because so many people, so many business owners, think they have to be great at everything and think that, well, if it's part of running a business, then I've got to do it. I've got to be the. No, you have a zone of genius. You have things that you're great at. You need to discover what that is and make sure you're spending as much of your time as possible in that zone and then get other people to help you with the other things.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think it was Jim Rohn who talked about that, who was always like make that list of all the things that you do and what are you good at, and get better at the things you're good at, because that's going to be easy. Yes, yes exactly.

Speaker 2:

It'll also be more fun If we put you in an accounting hat and say you got to do that for eight hours a day. It's not going to be long before you're going to be a little tired of that.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, no, I couldn't even last a day in the table. That's awesome.

Speaker 2:

So looking ahead for your business, if you look at a year, you look at 12, 21 months. What is one thing you really want to see happen in your business?

Speaker 3:

Well, I really want to pull together a suite of AI tools and a process to use them and get those embedded with my clients, because that will allow us my team to get rid of that and jettison that routine work, and they're going to want to do that anyway. Bring some of these things in-house and that's great. That's the natural flow, and then for us to keep being out there and nibbling at the edges to bring in and understand where AI is inadequate and where the space that we inhabit in the new world of AI and it might be that we're more of a lead-gen or relationship organization is what marketing will turn into right. Where we're humanizing and authenticating this AI content versus generating all the content.

Speaker 2:

So you become more of a strategy partner.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, and then linking people, you know.

Speaker 2:

That relationship linking and that partner-run strategy. These are things I have not seen AI have the capacity to do, but that is something that people are fantastic at. Hey, you know what You're looking at this, you know I know somebody, I know somebody I think you should talk to, yeah, and we begin to fulfill those connections. That is something I think that can really be valuable in the right space, in the right time, at the right moment. That's something that I think, and you could really be great at.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I agree, and it is back to this idea of how I'm committed to my community and I'm committed to the things that I'm interested in, right, yeah, and ducks unlimited and Camp Jack hazard, where I was a staff person and still taking kids on backpacking trips, you know. So I have these fears that I'm committed to, and AI will be able to tell a story about what those things are in a one dimensional or even a two dimensional way, but it will never be able to do what you're saying, right, which is, hey, you know, I know the CEO of Patagonia. I'm going to lift it, phone up and call them and say you know, what do you think about this idea? Right, that's, that's not, at least as we understand it. That's not a possibility yet.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, and it leans into that whole philosophy side of things, right? So why? Why do you take kids at this place? Why do you take them out backpacking? Right, because of the difference this made in your life? Yeah, right, it's such a big part of who you are and when something's that big of a part of us, we want to share it.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely, and yeah, and if it creates a health issue, then that's a whole nother reason, right? That's the bigger picture for me is that to see the negative side of it and the lack of impulse control and the lack of connection and the fear missing out, all these these really dark parts of the human psyche. It's our job as people who see that, to do something to neutralize that, because it's it's gonna it's not gonna just hurt us, it's gonna hurt our families in the future.

Speaker 2:

So good thinking not just about ourselves, but about the ones you have to come. I think that's that is a higher level of leadership. If you could go back and talk to yourself at the beginning of your journey, you can go back and talk to yourself decades ago, when you were just getting started Knowing what you know now, what would you love to go back and tell yourself?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I think it does tie into what we just had, which is this idea that relationships are really what are the most important thing. And to hold on to my networks with more care. And you know, in the industries that I'm not a part of anymore, I still could use those networks and I could still be a valuable help to those people. And then I was in a rush. You know, I wanted to get the next big product out, I wanted to get the next big sale, I wanted to grow the company and every project. You know the push, push, push. But you know, and 30 years later, I would much rather have the relationships with those people because the products have been changing every time.

Speaker 2:

Right, yeah that's interesting because I think that plays into what you do now and the relationships you've built I keep going back to. You know you've still got some of the same clients you had 14 years ago. That's just so uncommon. But I think that's the natural outgrowth of that learning you just described.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, how important relationships are. Yeah, that's interesting it reminds me of in Gandhi's autobiography he says, you know, a man's highest order is to find one woman and to love her, and to love her as the verb is my interpretation of it, and that there cannot ever be world peace until there's peace within one man and then he can work for world peace. And those two things are related in that, in the commitment to a focus on yourself in a functional way and linking that back to what we were talking about with loving the clients in that same way.

Speaker 2:

There's a reason, I believe, that I use this analogy all the time. When you get on an airplane, you know they tell you, you know if the oxygen mass drops, make sure you put it on yourself first, right, then assist the people with you. And I think that is so true in so many spheres of our life. You cannot lead in a healthy way if you are not leading yourself in a healthy way, and you are the hardest person you will ever lead.

Speaker 3:

That's true. The challenge that we have in this culture is that we think that our opinions and our likes are about us, right, like because I want my Starbucks a certain way or I don't like tomatoes. That's not knowing yourself, right. Those are just opinions about very, very light topics. Knowing yourself is about what you're afraid of and what you're really hoping to accomplish and what you really want to see happen in the world, and being afraid of those things but still working to push forward on those things. And so that delineation, I think, is where people get captured. They think, oh, I really want to have this new Lexus and that's what I'm about. Well, no, that's not what you're about. That's the little ego that's looking for some validation. But what is it that you're here to do, and are you doing it?

Speaker 2:

Exactly the why, the real driving, why. That's what it sounds like, you know, and I think that's why you come across and in both of our conversations so far you come across as one who is leading from a place of calm, control, a place of balance and center, and that is very uncommon in any way. I appreciate that.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, no, and I tell you it's simple, but it's not easy, right? It's simple in that every day I get up, I get up and I meditate and I pray. And every month I get outside and I meditate and I pray. So it's simple, but it's not easy because I have to schedule it, I have to protect it, I have to pay for it and I have to do it. It's not just not in my head, I have to actually go and do it.

Speaker 2:

Yes, and the intentionality of what you just described is the model, and I hope everybody listening is grabbing onto that, because I think that that is a model we can all learn from. You're a continual learner and I ask every guest this is there a book that has made a big difference in your journey, one that you would recommend that every leader listening pick up and add to their to read list?

Speaker 3:

I would say, for me it's Sid Artha by Herman Hess, and it's a German writer writing about Hindu philosophy and talking about the human process, and that, no matter what the circus and the parade and the gesticulations that we make in our lives, we're going to end up in the same place as everybody else. And for me, that gave me a sense of freedom in that not having to make a right the correct decision.

Speaker 1:

Fascinating.

Speaker 2:

I've not read this book. Now I've got to check it out.

Speaker 3:

All right.

Speaker 2:

Typically manual. People will walk away from an episode like this with one big idea. If you could define for them what you want that one big idea to be, what would you say that to be?

Speaker 3:

One big idea is to put the cell phone down for a minimum of two hours once a week and go for a walk next to a creek in the, in the weather and take some time to yourself to have an inferential walk of meander in your mind as well as a physical break.

Speaker 2:

I know people are going to want to stay connected with you and continue to learn from you, Emmanuel. What is the best way for them to do that?

Speaker 3:

I have a website that's immanuelrosecom and that's got all the current activities that I'm involved in.

Speaker 2:

I love that, and we can find out more about your books there.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely, and on Amazon also, however you want to do it.

Speaker 2:

Outstanding. Thank you for the generosity that you've shown today in sharing so honestly and so openly from what you've learned so far.

Speaker 3:

You bet. Well, I appreciate it. You're very warm and engaging yourself. I appreciate that, William.

Speaker 2:

Thanks for joining me for this episode today. As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode, and if you find value here, I'd love it if you would rate it and review it. That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast. Second, if you don't have a copy of my newest book, catalytic Leadership, I'd love to put a copy in your hands. If you go to catalyticaleadershipbookcom, you can get a copy for free. Just pay the shipping so I can get it to you and we'll get one right out. My goal is to put this into the hands of as many leaders as possible. This book captures principles that I've learned in 20 plus years of coaching leaders in the entrepreneurial space, in business, government, nonprofits, education and the local church. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about. If you're ready to take a next step with a coach to help you intentionally grow and thrive as a leader, I'd be honored to help you. Just go to catalyticaleadershipnet to book a call with me. Stay tuned for our next episode next week. Until then, as always, leaders choose to be catalytic.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for listening to Catalytic Leadership with Dr William Attaway. Be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss the next episode. Want more? Go to catalyticaleadershipnet.

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