What if you could harness the power of social media and networking to grow your business? Join us for a dynamic conversation with business coach Lorraine Duncan, who brings a wealth of experience from managing a family business for 30 years. Lorraine imparts her wisdom on leadership, emphasizing its role in positive encouragement and serving others. She also talks about the significance of social media, likening it to a gigantic networking pond where business owners can connect with their audience on a deeper level. If you’re not on social media, you’re missing out!
We also get into the meat of networking and its impact on business growth. Lorraine shares her insights on cultivating successful relationships, both in business and in personal life, and how these connections can lead to unexpected opportunities. She highlights the essence of good marketing – solving people's problems - and gives away some of her strategies for staying on top of her game and elevating her leadership skills. Moreover, we discuss the importance of reading and learning from the books we read. We conclude, recognizing that every entrepreneur needs a strong, supportive network to thrive. Get ready to level up your leadership skills with Lorraine Duncan!
Join Dr. William Attaway on the Catalytic Leadership podcast as he shares transformative insights to help high-performance entrepreneurs and agency owners achieve Clear-Minded Focus, Calm Control, and Confidence.
Free 30-Minute Discovery Call: Ready to elevate your business? Book a free 30-minute discovery call with Dr. William Attaway and start your journey to success.
What if you could harness the power of social media and networking to grow your business? Join us for a dynamic conversation with business coach Lorraine Duncan, who brings a wealth of experience from managing a family business for 30 years. Lorraine imparts her wisdom on leadership, emphasizing its role in positive encouragement and serving others. She also talks about the significance of social media, likening it to a gigantic networking pond where business owners can connect with their audience on a deeper level. If you’re not on social media, you’re missing out!
We also get into the meat of networking and its impact on business growth. Lorraine shares her insights on cultivating successful relationships, both in business and in personal life, and how these connections can lead to unexpected opportunities. She highlights the essence of good marketing – solving people's problems - and gives away some of her strategies for staying on top of her game and elevating her leadership skills. Moreover, we discuss the importance of reading and learning from the books we read. We conclude, recognizing that every entrepreneur needs a strong, supportive network to thrive. Get ready to level up your leadership skills with Lorraine Duncan!
Join Dr. William Attaway on the Catalytic Leadership podcast as he shares transformative insights to help high-performance entrepreneurs and agency owners achieve Clear-Minded Focus, Calm Control, and Confidence.
Free 30-Minute Discovery Call: Ready to elevate your business? Book a free 30-minute discovery call with Dr. William Attaway and start your journey to success.
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed to help leaders intentionally grow and thrive. Here is your host author and leadership and executive coach, dr William Attaway.
Speaker 2:
Hey, it's William and welcome to today's episode of the Catalytic Leadership podcast. Each week, we tackle a topic related to the field of leadership. My goal is to ensure that you have actionable steps you can take from each episode to grow in your own leadership. Growth doesn't just happen. My goal is to help you become intentional about it. Each week, we spotlight leaders from a variety of fields, organizations and locations. My goal is for you to see that leaders can be catalytic, no matter where they are or what they lead. I draw inspiration from the stories and journeys of these leaders and I hear from many of you that you do too. Let's jump in to today's interview.
Speaker 2:
I'm thrilled today to have Lorraine Duncan on the podcast. Lorraine has over 30 years of in the trenches business experience, running a family business with her husband. She knows how demanding it can be to own, manage and market your business while trying to carve out some quality personal or family time. As a business coach, she knows how to get better results by doing less. She can show you how to integrate social media into your overall marketing to make it cost effective, time efficient and custom designed to meet your specific goals and objectives. In 2021, she created a course called Linked In 13 Minutes a Day, because no one wants to waste time on LinkedIn. She has four incredible children, has been married to her wonderful husband for 41 years and she's a grandma and a pretty amazing one from what I hear. I'm so thrilled you are here, lorraine. Thanks for being on the show today.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, thank you for having me.
Speaker 2:
I would love for you to share some of your story with our listeners, Lorraine, particularly around your journey and your development as a leader. How did you get started?
Speaker 3:
Yeah, so it's kind of an interesting story.
Speaker 3:
It started off pretty much in church and then I also had a job and I worked in the hospital and when I had my fourth child I decided it was time for me to stay home.
Speaker 3:
But once that child went back to school, I started looking for a job again and what kept on happening was I was either overqualified, underqualified or they started sending me to these ridiculous group interviews.
Speaker 3:
And after that final group interview and I actually got the job, but everything that they promised wasn't what they promised just was going to start back from the drawing board and I was actually at a wedding with a sitting at a table with a bunch of people that I didn't know, and they were actually complaining about their businesses, and it just kind of organically happened that way, and what ended up happening for me was is that I started just well, have you tried this, have you tried this? And then somebody pulled me aside and said you should be like a consultant, a business consultant. So I went home that night and I looked it up online and I really didn't want to go back to school and so I decided to get a certified in business as a business coach and that morphed into my digital marketing agency, which I have today called BizGone Social, because I realized that I could grow my business coaching with social media marketing. So that's really basically my story and I'm stuck with it.
Speaker 2:
I love it. So you've had to develop some leadership skills as a part of this process, because now it's not just you right. You're leading other people, whether that be clients or people that you've hired to help fulfill what the clients need. How would you define leadership based on your journey?
Speaker 3:
It's a simple thing and I relate this back when I was the director of women's ministries at my church If you look back behind you and people are following you, then you're leading well. If people are bickering or going behind your back or doing crazy things, not listening at all, then you're not leading. So that's like one thing. And then the other thing is just I kind of lead through like positive encouragement too, so it's like people want to. You know, like I don't, like I'm not one of these, like I'm the king, queen of the mountain here and you know, but really it's about just leading well and being a part of a team. I love team leadership, it's something, and it's really about serving. So I take it from a place of serving and not really from a place of that I'm a dictator.
Speaker 2:
That sounds healthy. I think that's much better than the authoritative, dictatorial style of leadership that too many of us have seen.
Speaker 3:
Absolutely, and I've seen it in school, I've seen it, you know, you see it all over when somebody it's, they don't even know how to lead a team. Well, because they're so busy putting forth their agenda that they are never busy listening to other people. And I think that's key is listening. You really have to listen to people to be a good leader.
Speaker 2:
So good. You work a lot with social media now with your digital marketing agency, bizconsocial. Social media feels like a giant drain to a lot of business owners. They just look at it and they're like okay, facebook, twitter, linkedin threads, instagram. Tiktok taught me we can just keep going right, but why do you think it's important that business owners be on these platforms?
Speaker 3:
Well, because it's you know. What I like about it is it's a general awareness, meaning that you know, if you sit in your office all day and you do your work and client fulfillment and everything you're really not getting out there. Then maybe you go to one or two networking groups, which is great. I really highly recommend you know networking in person. But on social media you could educate and you could put your stuff out there, like you know some personal stuff, you could put some business stuff, you could put some behind the scenes and people get to know you on a whole other level. And I think it's really important. If you're not on social media today, you're really missing out on a big great thing that's like. It's like the giant networking pond.
Speaker 2:
Is there one that you like best, that you recommend more than the others?
Speaker 3:
Yeah, well, if you're B2B, I really really love LinkedIn. It's kind of my sweet spot. The average income is about 75,000 or more. You've got a lot of corporate people. You've got people who are coming out of corporate looking for maybe to start their own businesses, and so it's just a really great place to network. And that's why I created my course, because people were just spending too much time on LinkedIn but doing all the wrong things.
Speaker 2:
But what is one of the right things? Is there a strategy that you would say, hey, this is one that is just proven that you need to step forward?
Speaker 3:
Yeah, well, you have to use the platform. A lot of people what they do is they go in and they fill their profile up and they don't even engage and talk to other people. So it's like kind of like going to a live networking group and just sitting in the corner with your arms crossed like this and not talking to anybody. So the biggest thing that you have to do on LinkedIn is participate and go out fully, or why bother wasting your time on LinkedIn? And that's my whole criteria of what you should be doing on LinkedIn. You should be out there, you should be visible, you should be engaging with other people. I think it's really important. It's networking, it's power networking. It's the best place to be right now.
Speaker 2:
Is building relationships right?
Speaker 3:
Yeah, absolutely 100%. And that's where LinkedIn kind of goes wrong, because you got people who connect with you and then, after they connect with you, as soon as they connect with you, they send you three paragraphs of something that I don't want to read and it's like, instead of like, they're going right from I like to as a dating relationship, they're going right from that first date to trying to go all the way to let's get married, and I'm not ready to get married yet. It's like that's really hard and when somebody does that to me, it just really makes me feel it doesn't make anybody feel good. It's just like it's spam after spam after spam. You have to connect with somebody, you have to write a message when you connect, but it doesn't have to be like by my appeals, pocket Plitzer or whatever you're selling.
Speaker 2:
That's great. You know there's been a lot of discussion over the last year around AI and tools like chat, GPT and how this is going to change digital marketing. This is going to change the space. It's going to revolutionize. It's going to put people out of work no more copywriters, et cetera, et cetera. Do you have any opinions around this whole chat, GPT and AI phenomenon?
Speaker 3:
Yeah, I do. I actually I've been dabbling in it. I do use it and it's been very helpful and really it's a big time saver. So how I suggest using it and I may be totally wrong on this, but how I use it I use it in two ways. One is that I don't spend a lot of time on one platform, and that's Facebook. So I'm on there, but it's more for personal reasons, it's not for business, and so what I like to do is I have like an automation tool on my business page, like, and with Instagram too, is what I do is I have just a little message Thank you for visiting me, and if you have any questions, just ask me, and that's one way you can use it.
Speaker 3:
The problem is it's not very intuitive, so you have to have all these things in place. Well, if they say yes or if they ask a question, this, so it's you have to be really good at if, thens for that. The other way I use it is as like a writing prompt, and you remember we used to do that in school that give us a topic right on the color blue and then we would write forever on that prompt, and so I like it because I can put a title in there. It could give me a criteria, it could give me some points, but the bottom line is is you want to do it in your voice, you want to do it the way it sounds good to you, so like you could put something in. But I highly recommend that you make it very human. You know there's certain things that I say that chat GPT doesn't say so.
Speaker 3:
You want to make sure that you're being real and you got to be really be very careful and I, you know I don't know enough about it. I know just a little bit to be dangerous right now, but I feel like you have to be very careful because there's copyright stuff going on and I don't know if later on that's going to come back to bite everybody. So maybe I just opened up the can of worms now. I don't know, but it's, it's um, it's good and it's bad, but I don't think it's going to destroy the whole world and it's going to take over the world. I don't believe that there's other things that have taken over the world. It's definitely not chat GPT.
Speaker 2:
Very true. You talked about relationships and I think about AI and these tools and I think how impossible it really is for an AI engine to ever build a relationship like you and I can. And is it all marketing really rooted in relationship?
Speaker 3:
Yeah, I believe it is, and I think there's nothing wrong with starting a conversation with chat, gpt or AI, I should say. But you want to make sure that you are, you're following up. I just had a conversation the other day with the follow up. That's the most important thing about being in business is that if you're not following up with people and doing what you say you're going to do and that's hard, I mean, I'm not perfect at it, but I try to be as best as I can and the bottom line is is that it really is. You know, I have met so many amazing people in this journey of business, being in business for myself, and I actually wouldn't trade that for anything else.
Speaker 3:
So if it's a matter of getting together with somebody for coffee and maybe chatting about our business, but then going into like let's talk about baseball or let's talk about football, or hey, why don't we do this some night? You know, it's like I have found I have some of the best friendships through networking and I think and people highly respect our relationship and that's when you're going to get the third party recommendations from people and the third party referrals that they trust you enough. They may not have done work with you, but they know you well enough that, hey, lorraine's really good at that, you know. Hey, dr William is really good at that, you know. So it's you really have to. I think it's work you really have to put, just like marriage, you know think about marriage.
Speaker 3:
Marriage is a lot of work. It's never 50-50. Because when somebody starts doing 51%, guess what? It's not a marriage anymore, but it's 100%. 100%, where both partners are giving 100% in their, in their relationship with one another. And it's hard, it's really hard and people think it's easy. It's easy, you know to do, but it's not Every day.
Speaker 3:
You don't always feel like loving someone, but you do because you, because if we went by our feelings all the time, it's a whole mess. And that's the same with business. You can't go by like I feel that I should spam everybody today and then, hopefully, I'll create money that's going to come into my, you know, funnels. You know it's not. It's not like that at all. It's about one, one talk at a time, one, you know, getting together with somebody, one solving a problem. That's the biggest thing is is are you solving people's problems? Because if you're not, nobody is going to have any interest in you. You could be, you know, the greatest marketer out there, but if you're not solving people's problems, then you really kind of lose out on the deal.
Speaker 2:
That really is the root of it, isn't it? I mean, really, when you're, when you're buying something, a product, a service, you're trying to solve a problem, and that's the I think the core of successful marketing is helping people understand hey, this will solve the problem that you're experiencing. You didn't know there was a solution here. It is. This will make your life better.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, and I love. I love when something makes my life better. That's why I love you know, that's why I like chat, gbt, that's why I love the different software platforms that I have and that I use to make my life better as as a business owner. And I think that everybody wants that one solution. And you know it may not be for everybody, but then again you know you don't get along with everybody and you don't fit in with everybody, so you know you really have to, you know, work hard on the people that you are connecting with, and that's important too.
Speaker 2:
Absolutely All right. How do you stay on top of your game? How do you level up with new skills, new leadership skills and such that you need? How do you do that?
Speaker 3:
I do a lot of reading. Right now, I'm reading a book called the Pumpkin Plan, which is an amazing book, and the other other thing that I do is I try to hang out with people that are better than I am, and that's how I grow. Number one and number two, you know, I, with social media, I, yes, I am a guru. Yes, I know a lot, but there's always somebody that knows more than you do and you can learn from them. And here's the biggest thing how do you stay up? Is you just got to be teachable?
Speaker 3:
Yeah, you know, maybe you've been doing something in your business that's not working anymore. Well, it's time to get rid of it, and I think that's what I've done over and over there. I mean, I've grown so much. When I first started my agency, it was like you know, I learned. You learn from your mistakes, you learn from other people. So you can't like be in a silo but all by yourself. You really have to get out there and and learn from other people. And that's what how I stay up on my game.
Speaker 2:
Love that. I love the intentionality there, the books that you read, the people you spend time with. I love most of all what you said about having a teachable spirit. I talk about this a lot that you know. If you understand and you wake up every day and commit today, I'm going to be the most teachable person in every environment. I'm in in every room, I'm in in every meeting, in every conversation, because you understand, you can learn from anybody. Sometimes you learn what not to do, but that can be incredibly valuable, right? Sometimes you learn hey, if I can learn from this person, I can avoid this ditch, because they're telling me how they fell into it. They drove right in. Oh, okay, I can avoid that. So many opportunities if we are teachable. I love that you brought that up.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, and I think it's really important that there's a lot of people out there that are following certain people and everything, and it's important to just have a variety of people that you're following and you're learning from, because sometimes it's just getting a different perspective and I think getting to see that is really, really important.
Speaker 1:
So true.
Speaker 2:
So, thinking about your business, what is one thing that you want most? If you could have one wish, what's the one thing you would want most?
Speaker 3:
You know everybody. I mean, that should be an easy question for a business owner. What's the one thing that they want most? Is money, okay.
Speaker 3:
But for me it's a little different. I feel that, first of all, with my business, I'm actually helping people so they can be in their I call it the zone of genius. You know the place where they're best, you know what they do best, and so, as big I've always been sort of a support person, I love to support others, and so it's basically having those clients that I'm I'm helping with a deeper purpose. Yeah, now, my deeper purpose I love to do I think I've mentioned this before when we've talked is is that I love doing missions work and I like serving people.
Speaker 3:
So it was to be able to have I would love my business to create that income that I'm able to best serve other people with and help other people. And I think that's where I come from and that's the place I come from. And sometimes, when you're coming from that place, you don't always get that, and that's why it's like, that's why I'm reading this book, the Pumpkin Plan, because it's like it's the plan that is going to get rid of everything else that's in your business. It's not serving you well and only working with those clients that are like the best, like best at what they do, and I want to support those clients that have a bigger purpose in life.
Speaker 2:
That's so fascinating, your answer. I was just talking with a client the other day who was. We were talking about what the win was, what's the ultimate goal, what's your why, and it was kind of meandering around a lot of different directions and ultimately it came down to exactly what you just said. It's not the success, the money, the more, more, more. It's something completely different. It's the. In this person's case, it's the freedom to spend the time with the people that matter most of them. Okay, so then the business, the money, all of this. This is simply a conduit, it's simply a tool to help you achieve something much bigger, much greater, and that's exactly what you've described being able to devote yourself to that life of service, to that life of mission, and this is simply a tool to help you get there. I think that's a fantastic perspective, and so often I find that entrepreneurs, business owners, can get wrapped around the axle and forget that, and it becomes about the money. It becomes about the more, the more, the bigger, the greater the scale, because they've forgotten what matters most.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, and the thing is is a lot of people get lost in their businesses, not being present in the moment, not spending the time that they should be with their family and loved ones and their friends. And if you're doing that, I mean, my biggest advice out there is if you're doing that, stop.
Speaker 3:
Stop it now, Because I once heard and this is kind of an interesting thing, I don't even know if I heard it when you were talking, when I was talking to you the last time but the one thing that is true is when you're at somebody's funeral and they're doing somebody's doing the eulogy, you'll never hear them say about that person that they said that they wish they spent more time at the office, and the bottom line is none of us are going to wish we spent more time at the office.
Speaker 2:
That's exactly right. It's easy to look at somebody like you it does go on social and say, wow, I bet that was just easy to build that. I bet it was just all up and to the right, because we look at the highlight reel right and we look at just the hot points that we sometimes see online. Have there been challenges along the way?
Speaker 3:
Oh yeah, there's always challenges Losing a client that was a really good client, or getting a client that you need, or sometimes something you know being on social media. It's ever changing, so the algorithms are always changing, so there's there's challenging, there's a lot of challenging things that come with this business, but it's also rewarding too, and you have to outweigh that. You know it's like which one is better is is, if the rewards are much better than the challenges, then you have a win.
Speaker 2:
So good, think about what you want most and the challenges that can get in the way. If you think about, like, where you want to go and the one thing if you could have, that that would be something. What is it that stops you from that?
Speaker 3:
All right, I don't think honestly. You know, when I was a little girl, I was told that anybody could be president of the United States and, as you can see, that anybody really can be president of the United States. So I don't think there's anything. I've had this goal of where I wanted to be in my business since I started it and I think nothing's going to stop me. I don't think anything can stop me other than if, you know, all of a sudden, you know the IRS comes and takes all my money away from me or something like that.
Speaker 3:
But I mean really seriously. It's moving. It's always putting one foot in front of the other and just moving forward one step at a time and realizing that, like you always heard that saying Rome wasn't built on a day, well, literally a business isn't, it's a journey and life is a journey. So things are going to come along and that's just. It's just side stages. That's happening, it's like. But if you keep on working towards the goals that you have and the things that you want to accomplish in this lifespan, then I really feel that you can do anything.
Speaker 2:
That's so good. So I imagine, like the other leaders that I talked to you who are performing at a high level, you like to read, maybe audio books, maybe physical books. You've already mentioned one that you're reading right now that you're thoroughly enjoying. Is there a book that has made a big difference in your journey that you would recommend? And if you've got a book that you want to put at the top of your to read list, this is it.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, you know it was a funny little book. It was. It's a very small book. I can't think of who wrote it right now, but it's called go for the no and it's a very short book. I don't remember the author right now. But the bottom line is is that what I realized is that the more people you get to know, the more you're going to hear a lot of no's and you have to be okay with that. When I first started out, I was not okay with no's.
Speaker 3:
I was like, oh my God, I didn't get that person as a client, or I remember I mean, think about it's. Like you know, we all have. Some of us have, like email lists. I remember my first unsubscribe. It was like, oh, somebody unsubscribed for me, but no, this was a really good book and it was a life example, and it was. It's a very short book. You can probably read it in less than 45 minutes, and there's some really great principles in it, and I think that's that was a really good book. If you, if you don't have time to read, though, there's this app out there. It's called blink list. Yes, it gives like little blinks and stuff, and sometimes people will mention a book and you don't have it and you don't have time and you don't want to buy it, and it is great. It does cost to get a subscription to it, of course, but the bottom line is is that you get the top nuggets and they give you a blink of the day. I think it's really fun. I don't know how I found out about it was I was obviously advertised by some crazy marketing person. It's been one of the best things, because even with them, I mean, I do I've been doing book clubs lately and I'm actually with the pumpkin plan.
Speaker 3:
I'm in a book club. I recommend to do a book club and the reason being is that I mean in my club right now, there's, like I don't know, three attorneys in there. There's a IT person, there's a direct marketing person and there's all different. There's a interior designer in it. So we come from all walks of life, yeah, and I'm a stylist, like a what do you call it? A J Hilburn stylist or whatever, so there's all different and, of course, me, the digital marketing. Interesting. It's a very diverse group and you grow.
Speaker 3:
And what I didn't know I thought we were just going to talk about the books. We brought our bit of the book, but we brought our business into it and I've already learned, like, what is one thing you're going to implement from the book? Because you can gain a lot of knowledge in life. You could read a lot of books and I think I read somewhere or somebody. I heard a talk that they said they read like 100 books a year or 200 books a year and some people read two books a week and basically they take one thing from that book and they implement it or they try to move forward. So you don't.
Speaker 3:
You're not necessarily, when you read a book, if you're reading it, to read every word and do everything in the book. It's almost impossible if you read a book that you're going to take one nugget out of it and actually move forward with it. I mean there's tons of great books, there's the four agreements, that's out there. There's oh, I'm just like going blank. Darren Hardy has a has a bunch of books that are amazing and you know Brendan Brashard has tons of books that out there and I was like just thinking of some of the books I have here. You know, at my desk right now it's like there's a book called charge by Brendan Brashard, really good, and you know what? Learn more about who you are, get the strength finder book and so what?
Speaker 3:
your friends are. So I think there's. You know, I mean, I could go on my. My book list is big. I do read a lot, but I'm I'm actually reading with a different purpose now is that, you know, in the book club it's like each chapter by chapter. What is one thing that I'm going to do to move forward in my business with what I'm reading and then in my other books that I'm reading is like what's the one thing that I'm going to use from this book to move forward? And I think it's so much better than reading for every word.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, no, it's so good, it's very intentional and it's very focused, and I love that. If you could share one piece of advice with the entrepreneurs, the agency owners and the leaders business owners who are listening today, what, lorraine, with that one piece of advice be?
Speaker 3:
You can't do it alone. I think it's so important that you have people that you can confide in, a group that you can go to with other business owners so you can get the pulse of what's really going on in your local places. You really need to have that in your life because you can't do it alone. You honestly need people to get to the next level in your business. Sitting behind, there's this, that movie, it was called Field of Dreams. If you build it, they will come. If you sit in your office on the computer day in and day out and you're not out there meeting people and getting to know people, they're not going to come. If you have a website, for instance, you got to bring traffic to the website. Well, I put a website up, that means everybody's going to come to it and buy my stuff. That doesn't happen.
Speaker 2:
That's so good. This has been so helpful today, so practical, so insightful. I know people are going to want to stay connected with you. What is the best way for them to do that?
Speaker 3:
I would love if you connected with me on LinkedIn. It's the rain Duncan on LinkedIn. Just look my name up, you'll know it's me because it says Super LinkedIn Ninja right in the title. Just say that you want to connect with me because you heard me on this podcast and share this podcast. When you see the podcast, when it's out there, live, just share it. Share the podcast.
Speaker 2:
So good. Thank you for the insights and the wisdom you shared today. This has been helpful for me and, I know, for so many people who are listening.
Speaker 3:
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2:
Thanks for joining me for this episode today. As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode, and if you find value here, I'd love it if you would rate it and review it. That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast. Second, if you don't have a copy of my newest book, catalytic Leadership, I'd love to put a copy in your hands. If you go to catalyticaleadershipbookcom, you can get a copy for free. Just pay the shipping so I can get it to you and we'll get one right out.
Speaker 2:
My goal is to put this into the hands of as many leaders as possible. This book captures principles that I've learned in 20 plus years of coaching leaders in the entrepreneurial space, in business, government, nonprofits, education and the local church. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about. If you're ready to take a next step with a coach to help you intentionally grow and thrive as a leader, I'd be honored to help you. Just go to catalyticaleadershipnet to book a call with me. Stay tuned for our next episode next week. Until then, as always, leaders choose to be catalytic.
Speaker 1:
Thanks for listening to Catalytic Leadership with Dr William Attaway. Be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss the next episode. Want more? Go to catalyticaleadershipnet.
