Catalytic Leadership

Unlocking Leadership and Marketing Strategies, with Lorraine Ball

August 10, 2023 Dr. William Attaway Season 1 Episode 59
Unlocking Leadership and Marketing Strategies, with Lorraine Ball
Catalytic Leadership
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Catalytic Leadership
Unlocking Leadership and Marketing Strategies, with Lorraine Ball
Aug 10, 2023 Season 1 Episode 59
Dr. William Attaway

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Ever wondered what it takes to lead a team effectively while also championing innovation? Well, in our latest episode, William had a conversation with Lorraine Ball, a powerhouse entrepreneur, podcast host, and speaker who has some compelling insights to share on leadership. We discussed her personal journey to leadership, emphasizing the critical role of leaders as 'protectors' and 'resource providers' for their teams. Lorraine brought in her unique perspective on how to foster an environment where creativity thrives and risk-taking is embraced, not feared.

From Lorraine’s leadership prowess to her masterful marketing strategies, the second part of our conversation will make you rethink the way you approach marketing. We explored the untapped potential of user-generated content and the magic it can weave in propelling business growth. Lorraine dished out some brilliant examples and creative ideas on how to leverage this tactic effectively. But the learning didn't stop there. We also delved into the power of email marketing and the importance of a clean list. Plus, we discussed how LinkedIn's Creator mode can be a game-changer for professionals and how transparency can be used as a tool to understand a business better. Listen in for a whirlwind ride through leadership and marketing strategies that could very well be the key to your business success!

Digital Toolbox is an online marketing community for business owners.  Filled with tools, tips, training programs, and real-time discussions you will find the answers to all your digital marketing questions.  So, if you are interested in taking a do-it-yourself approach to digital marketing or you simply want to be knowledgeable enough to ask the right questions before hiring a professional, become a member today.  Head over to https://digitaltoolbox.club/digital-marketing-tools/



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About Dr. William Attaway:

Meet Dr. William Attaway, your guide to peak performance. As a seasoned Executive Mindset and Leadership Coach with nearly 30 years of experience, William empowers high-performance entrepreneurs and agency owners to conquer challenges and maximize their potential. Join him on the Catalytic Leadership podcast as he shares insights on achieving Clear-Minded Focus, Calm Control, & Confidence, helping you thrive in business and life.

Grab your free copy of Dr. William Attaway's new book, CATALYTIC LEADERSHIP: 12 Keys To Becoming An Intentional Leader Who Makes A Difference.

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Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Send us a Text Message.

Ever wondered what it takes to lead a team effectively while also championing innovation? Well, in our latest episode, William had a conversation with Lorraine Ball, a powerhouse entrepreneur, podcast host, and speaker who has some compelling insights to share on leadership. We discussed her personal journey to leadership, emphasizing the critical role of leaders as 'protectors' and 'resource providers' for their teams. Lorraine brought in her unique perspective on how to foster an environment where creativity thrives and risk-taking is embraced, not feared.

From Lorraine’s leadership prowess to her masterful marketing strategies, the second part of our conversation will make you rethink the way you approach marketing. We explored the untapped potential of user-generated content and the magic it can weave in propelling business growth. Lorraine dished out some brilliant examples and creative ideas on how to leverage this tactic effectively. But the learning didn't stop there. We also delved into the power of email marketing and the importance of a clean list. Plus, we discussed how LinkedIn's Creator mode can be a game-changer for professionals and how transparency can be used as a tool to understand a business better. Listen in for a whirlwind ride through leadership and marketing strategies that could very well be the key to your business success!

Digital Toolbox is an online marketing community for business owners.  Filled with tools, tips, training programs, and real-time discussions you will find the answers to all your digital marketing questions.  So, if you are interested in taking a do-it-yourself approach to digital marketing or you simply want to be knowledgeable enough to ask the right questions before hiring a professional, become a member today.  Head over to https://digitaltoolbox.club/digital-marketing-tools/



Support the Show.

About Dr. William Attaway:

Meet Dr. William Attaway, your guide to peak performance. As a seasoned Executive Mindset and Leadership Coach with nearly 30 years of experience, William empowers high-performance entrepreneurs and agency owners to conquer challenges and maximize their potential. Join him on the Catalytic Leadership podcast as he shares insights on achieving Clear-Minded Focus, Calm Control, & Confidence, helping you thrive in business and life.

Grab your free copy of Dr. William Attaway's new book, CATALYTIC LEADERSHIP: 12 Keys To Becoming An Intentional Leader Who Makes A Difference.

Discovery Call:
Book your free 30-minute strategic and discovery call.

Connect with Dr. William Attaway:

Website
LinkedIn
Facebook
Instagram
TikTok
YouTube

Speaker 1:

Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed to help leaders intentionally grow and thrive. Here is your host author and leadership and executive coach, dr William Attaway.

Speaker 2:

Hey, it's William and welcome to today's episode of the Catalytic Leadership podcast. Each week, we tackle a topic related to the field of leadership. My goal is to ensure that you have actionable steps you can take from each episode to grow in your own leadership. Growth doesn't just happen. My goal is to help you become intentional about it. Each week, we spotlight leaders from a variety of fields, organizations and locations. My goal is for you to see that leaders can be catalytic, no matter where they are or what they lead. I draw inspiration from the stories and journeys of these leaders and I hear from many of you that you do too. Let's jump into today's interview.

Speaker 2:

I'm honored today to have Lorraine Ball on the show. After spending too many years in corporate America, lorraine said goodbye to the bureaucracy, the glass ceilings and the bad coffee and followed her passion to help small business owners succeed. Today, the successful entrepreneur, author, professional speaker and host of a weekly marketing podcast called More Than a Few Words brings creative ideas, practical tips and decades of real-world experience to every conversation. As the founder of the digital toolbox community, she helps business owners use internet marketing to grow, and in her spare time, she loves to travel and take photos. You can see her photos at LorraineBallcom. Lorraine, I'm so glad you are here. Thanks for being on the show.

Speaker 3:

So glad to be here. I think this is going to be fun.

Speaker 2:

Me too. I would love for you to share some of your story with our listeners, particularly around your journey and your development as a leader. How did you get started?

Speaker 3:

So I always like to be in charge on the playground, but I think it started early. That's great, but I think one of the things that I discovered was that along the way, even before I was in leadership roles per se, that people would come to me for advice or I could influence behavior by behaving a certain way. And I think that and a kid because it was high school and college and what I discovered in doing that was that there are people that are in charge and they're paid to be in charge, and then there are the leaders, who may or may not be those people, and I set out even as I started getting managerial roles, my goal was always to be the leader, to be the person people looked to, they trusted, they trusted to have the answers or at least have an opinion. I was a department manager very, very early on when I was in retail and had a very young, very, very young team and they were even younger than I was and learned from them that once you get the job of manager, it's almost harder to be a leader, because as one of the group that people just followed, you could still be you, but when people were paying you now to be in charge. Now you had to sort of act the part, and that was an interesting first transition. And it happened to me a couple of times where I was part of a department and then I got promoted to run the department and had to go from these people being my friends and they were still my friends, but now they were also part of a team that I was responsible for. So, yeah, I had a couple of different leadership gigs in corporate and I always felt like my main job as a leader was to create a buffer between my team and the rest of the organization, not to prevent them from interacting or engaging.

Speaker 3:

But in many of the organizations that I was in and in many corporations there's a lot of chaos out there and if you have a team that has a job to do and they're constantly bombarded by the chaos. And I had one guy. He had a really good relationship with one of the vice presidents and I didn't want to get in the way of that because it was good for him and it was good for his career. But that VP changed his mind.

Speaker 3:

On an hourly basis he would give Mike instructions and between the time that Mike left his office and got back to his own office, tony would change his mind, and so what I had to do was work with Mike and go yep, whatever Tony says he wants, you just nod and then you swing by my office and you tell me what it is he said and we'll put it on the schedule and then you'll go back to doing what we both agree is important. And I will confirm with Tony the schedule Nine times out of 10, tony didn't want it. And so translating sometimes what upper management is really looking for, creating that buffer and then getting them the resources when they need something they shouldn't have to go to battle for that that should be my role and negotiating to get our projects the kind of priority and resources that it needed. So those were kind of my lessons from corporate.

Speaker 2:

I love that. I think that's so real and I can certainly resonate with that. I imagine our listeners can as well. The job of a leader so often is to stand in front of their team and take the arrows, so to speak, when they need to do that, protect them, but also to make sure they're resourced. I love that you brought that up, because that's so often something we don't actively think about. But if your team's not resourced, you're asking them to do something without what they need to do it.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely. And resources, sometimes it's budget and sometimes it's time.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 3:

And sometimes it's I like where you said you have to stand in front of them. Sometimes you also just have to stand in the back, leading from the back.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 3:

Where they have the idea and they're excited about it, and creating that environment where people will bring their ideas forward, will be excited about trying things and will not be afraid if it doesn't work out.

Speaker 2:

Yes, I love that. I think that is team leadership at its core. That's so fantastic. You know a little bit about marketing. Just a little. Just a little. I mean, if you didn't get it from the bio, lorraine is truly a master in this field, with all of the experience and all of the things that she has brought to help small business owners. I want to spend some time talking about this, because I know any entrepreneur, any business owner. This is something they have to deal with. They have to learn this. It can't be something they just say, oh, somebody else will handle that. Yeah, you have to deal with this, so let's spend a little time here. But you talk about user-generated content. What exactly is that and why should we all care?

Speaker 3:

So that's one of my favorite marketing tools that has sort of bubbled up in the age of the internet. I mean, it was always around, but not as much as it is now. And the way I explain USG is when you start a business, one of the best strategies you can have is to do it with other people's money, whether it's a loan or an investment. That influx of cash is going to help you grow faster and reach higher levels faster and get you to go further. When it comes to content marketing, other people's content can do the same thing.

Speaker 3:

Now, I'm not recommending that you scrape stuff from the internet and take other people's content. That's really bad form but what I am recommending is that you engage people and solicit their content in a way that makes them want to talk about you, makes them want to share their thoughts, their opinions, their ideas under an umbrella that is yours, and I'll give you a couple of examples. The first one is the one everybody always thinks about reviews. Reviews are literally other people talking about you, and if you're smart, you cultivate that. You encourage people to leave reviews. You encourage people to share photos of their experience with you. Why? Because it has more credibility, because people are more likely to believe what they read from a complete stranger, someone they have never met, than they are to believe from their mother or the business owner, because it's on Google with four stars.

Speaker 2:

That's so true. It's fascinating, it's so true.

Speaker 3:

It is, and so my husband and I like to do a lot of travels in my bio and everywhere we go, I can't even keep up with all the reviews that I want to write Because I want to reward a restaurant for a great meal. But I also consider it my responsibility to pay it forward, because when we are booking hotel rooms, we do all of our own travel arrangements. When I'm trying to decide which hotel, I read the reviews, yeah, and I am relying on Blanche du Bois in Street Car, in Desire the kindness of others. I am relying on other people to tell me about their experiences. You learn to read reviews and you can tell when somebody is really off base. But so smart businesses that need that are selling a product or service, particularly one that is not a repeat purchase, where they can't rely on the loyalty and the customer experience that they create. They have to rely on the word of mouth. Reviews are like my favorite, but they're not the only kind of user-generated content.

Speaker 2:

What else.

Speaker 3:

So contests, if you run a contest where you invite people to provide photos, quotes, thoughts, ideas, and I'll give you some great examples, some of my favorite One we were working with an optometrist. He was opening up a children's practice, a pediatric practice, so we ran a contest. You could win a prize if you submitted a photograph of your child wearing glasses. Okay, we got 175, 100 photos and he was like, well, we're giving away these really big prizes. That's not enough. And I went when I'm done Now.

Speaker 3:

In order to win, you had to get people to vote for you, and in order to vote, you had to do two things you had to give me your email address and your zip code. Why did we care about the zip code? We got thousands of votes. You tell a mother her kid is going to get a chance to win a ride on a Zamboni machine at an ice hockey game, she's going to sell her souls in the death.

Speaker 3:

Okay, but what we wanted to make sure is he had both an adult and a pediatric practice, but they were both in Indianapolis. Well, a lot of people who live in Indianapolis have grandmas in Wisconsin and uncles in Fort Lauderdale. We were happy to have them vote. But when the list was done, we wanted to separate out anybody who was outside of our zip codes. Thank you for playing along. Everybody who was in our zip codes got an invitation to make an appointment. Yep, we added thousands, thousands of names to his email marketing list. Like that, wow. And we got the right to use the photographs of these adorable children in the marketing for the pediatric optometry practice.

Speaker 2:

That's so good it was a win-win-win.

Speaker 3:

There was a kid who got to ride the Zamboli machine.

Speaker 2:

I'm always wanted to do that.

Speaker 3:

Everybody does Contests and that voting element is really good because it engages a much wider range of people. Dove soap They've done this a couple of different ways. Over time they created their brand, shifted from being a beauty bar to an every woman is beautiful brand. They did a campaign where you basically said I think, insert the name of whoever you think, and the way you did it is you tagged them on Facebook. My daughter, michelle, is beautiful. Because I would fill in why I thought my daughter was beautiful, I would share it. It was tagged with dove soap. It was also a lovely message of her with a photo of her, and she was tagged. What does she do? She feels happy, she comments on it, ding, dove. And then she tags her friend, her cousin, and so it goes.

Speaker 3:

You can create contests that are, using the technology of Facebook, viral. That's another one. Another totally different type of user generated content is when you don't have the answer and you're really looking for your community maybe to tell you. So. Lay's Potato Chips does a contest every year where you submit flavors. Whoever thought that cornbread and grits flavored potato chips would be the one that won? What it does is it engages people, but it also creates this range of opens up range as a possibility.

Speaker 3:

Jimmy Fallon, well before Twitter got broke, would do things on Twitter where he would throw out a question and people would answer and he'd read their answers in a segment on his show and there was a movie the Fault in Our Stars. I thought this was brilliant. It is a young adult novel and the primary audience were teenage girls and they invited readers of the book because it had been a book first to submit inspirational quotes, things they pasted on their wall, and the promo for the movie was a bulletin board where the camera just panned over all these little handwritten notes and quotes and photographs. There is no way that a 30-year-old male Hollywood producer could ever get inside the head of that young girl the way these girls literally gave them of you inside. And so it can help you promote your product, reach a wider audience, get inside the head of your customer, get ideas that maybe you wouldn't have. So that's why I'm a fan of USJ. I love that.

Speaker 2:

You know, you mentioned Jimmy Fallon, and this brings up something else that I understand that you talk about, which is there are lessons from late night TV that web designers can learn. I can't wait to dive into this, because late night TV is not exactly held up, as you know. Hey, this is the pinnacle. This is really the best of the best.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, okay, so we'll switch over to my late night TV pitch. But if you and I don't see this as much anymore but there was a period there before streaming services really got big that if you were awake at 2 am you were watching a commercial for Sham, wow, absolutely. Or Ginsu Knives, that's right, or the Ronco Slicer and Dyson.

Speaker 2:

Ronco absolutely.

Speaker 3:

And they would show you all the features of this thing and then, just when you thought, okay, I can go to sleep now, they'd be like boy, this is wrong. So you'd be hooked for another 10 minutes. And that strategy of wait, there's more. Is something that every business owner should do on their website. If you are lucky enough to get someone to leave social media to come to your website, to click through from an email, to click from an ad that you've spent good money on, if you're lucky enough to get someone to come, do not let them leave. Make sure that, whatever you offer them if they decide they don't want, that, at the bottom of the page, there's a wait, there's more.

Speaker 3:

Every page on your website should have that logical next step and it should be related to the information on the page. That doesn't mean you should have 25 clicks on a page, but if I get to a page I've clicked through from an ad and it's about one of your services, and I get all the way to the bottom of the page and I still haven't decided to buy. Maybe it's a schedule, an appointment. Maybe it's schedule a call. Maybe that's too presumptuous, maybe it's too early in the process, and so you're, like other people who've come looking for this information, also find this interesting.

Speaker 3:

You downloaded our hardwood flooring guide. Would you like to read an article on five things you should do before you install the new floor? So you have to really think about where someone is in the buying process and make sure that you're offering them a relevant next step. If I'm looking at the sham, wow, don't offer me a knife, no, that's a disconnect. But if I'm looking at your consulting services or your, again a flooring contractor, and I've been looking at floors, then offer me something relevant to floors. Would you like to read a guide on how to keep your new floors clean? Maybe you offer them a coupon if it's a carpet cleaning business, for X% off if they click through and fill out this other information. So every page, every page should have that next step.

Speaker 2:

It's like when you go to the grocery store, right and by the apples well, look, hanging there, there's the apple peeler. Oh, look at there, it's right there with it. Right, I needed apples, but oh, you know what I needed? That too, You're helping the consumer with something they didn't even think about yet, but you're leading them down a path. I love that.

Speaker 3:

Yes, because you're thinking about, you have to think about the entire process.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

Someone does not wake up today and go. You know what? I didn't really think about this before, but today I need to spend. I need to put all new flooring in my house. I'm gonna go wall to wall new flooring and I'm gonna buy it today. I'm gonna research, I'm gonna ask neighbors, I'm gonna read reviews, exactly. So that's how that kind of comes together and I'm gonna learn about it. This is especially true I was talking earlier where reviews are important if you have a product that people don't buy, like if you're a hotel or something like that, where someone might come and then never come back. Reviews are important, these informational guides.

Speaker 3:

If you're selling a high ticket item that people only buy once. I mean, how many times in your life have you replaced the air conditioning in your home? How many times in your life, even buying a car maybe that's a few more times put in carpeting, put on a new roof, applied for a loan to send your kid to college? I mean, file for bankruptcy, okay. I mean you do all those things. You might have to file for bankruptcy if you don't have a really good job, okay. So if you're selling a product that is a big ticket item, that is something people do not buy. They're not familiar with the process. Downloads videos, information scattered through your website that leads people through and helps them identify the questions they should be asking and provides them the answers is hugely beneficial.

Speaker 1:

Really good.

Speaker 2:

You were talking earlier about building the email list right and how this contest added thousands of names to an email list. So good, but is that still valid? I mean, is email marketing still a thing or is it kind of passe?

Speaker 3:

Well, 90% of human beings open their email, or 90% of people who have an email account open it every day 90%, wow. So with those and that's a statistic from Constant Contact and they're an email newsletter provider but with that kind of number, you're like, okay, so they're opening it, I need to be doing something, okay. So that's number one. Number two just blasting email starts to become noise in the background. But if you have a segmented list, if you have people that have expressed an interest in flooring carpeting, if you have a pet and your veterinarian splits the list to dog owners and cat owners and you get an email that says hi, cat owner, guess what? You're more likely to read that.

Speaker 3:

And so, yeah, email works. It's very, very effective for onboarding. It's very effective when you're doing fundraising. I'm trying to remember it might've been the first Obama campaign. I think he was the first one that really mobilized small donors and figured out you just send them an email and send them an email, and send them an email. And it's a bit I mean, it's a bit abused right now, but I'm gonna tell you, politicians are still raising millions, millions of dollars from small dollar donors, which tells me, yeah, it's still working.

Speaker 2:

It's still working. They wouldn't do it if it wasn't.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, they know that I mean and it is there's a lot you have to do to make sure it continues to work. You have to keep your list clean. You've gotta get rid of people who just aren't opening it. Just take them off the list. You need to send relevant content. You need to pay attention to your open rates to figure out am I sending too many?

Speaker 1:

emails.

Speaker 3:

I have an email list. There are people not a lot anymore, but there are still people on my email list who've been on my email list since 2002 and 2003. Oh my goodness. And even more interesting, they still open the newsletters. Now they don't know because, honestly, people who start like if you don't open an email for me in six months, I send you a note. I'm like, hey, do you still want this? And if I don't hear anything, you're at Because it dilutes the information, because if there's 500 people that really aren't interested, I miss the 50 who are who I should really be paying attention to. And if I get you know, or if it's 5,000 and I'm paying attention to 500. Because now I can see what's really interesting to them.

Speaker 2:

That's so helpful. I think that sometimes the size of an email list can be a vanity metric in some way. I've got a list of this, this, this. How many of them have opened anything in the last six months? I love that. I think keeping a clean list makes way more sense the way you're describing that.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it's been really interesting because a lot of the people that unsubscribed from my email list over the years, I'm noticing a lot of them are now looking at my newsletter on LinkedIn. Okay, we're still connected. You're still following me. You just didn't want it in your inbox.

Speaker 2:

Exactly.

Speaker 3:

Totally good with that, that's fine, that's so good.

Speaker 2:

You bring up the LinkedIn newsletter, and I think that's a tool that a lot of people have not yet found.

Speaker 3:

LinkedIn started doing something they call creator mode. You can turn it on. When you are in creator mode, you can create newsletters that are mailed to anyone who subscribes under the LinkedIn banner, which is a huge endorsement. It's not coming from you, it's coming from LinkedIn. It just says hey, lorraine published a newsletter we at LinkedIn thought it was good enough to share with you. When you are a creator, you can go live, you can do live videos and if you are a coach or a consultant, you need to be doing at least a few lives. That's just the way it is. You can also contribute to articles. It's an article that's written and you're invited to insert information and suddenly you're showing up alongside some really influential people. If you are in the business, if you are a knowledge professional, if wisdom is your business, if you're a financial planner, a lawyer, an accountant, a consultant or a coach, you want to think about turning on creator mode for LinkedIn.

Speaker 2:

Let's talk about entrepreneurship for a minute. You are a successful entrepreneur. I would imagine that has just come so easily that you haven't had any obstacles or challenges, that everything has just been up into the right. That's the story we hear so often in everybody's highlight reel that we see online.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, uh-huh. I uh up to the right, down to the left around the corner. I owned a digital agency for 20 years and we started out as a traditional agency. I actually I started out as a consulting firm because what I really wanted to do the topic we were talking about upfront leadership management, building high performance teams it was something I was really good at, and I wanted to teach other managers how to do that. I could help the world one one crappy manager at a time.

Speaker 3:

But the reality was that in 2002, there were more people than jobs, and companies did not care. They didn't have to. There were half a dozen people lined up for every single job, and so they didn't want to invest in teaching their managers to be better. The payoff wasn't there. So lesson number one if you're selling broccoli, you have to understand that not everybody's going to want it, and even if they should eat broccoli, they should invest in their people. You can't make them.

Speaker 3:

So while I was trying to build that business, people kept saying hey, you're going to marketing, could you help me with this? Yeah, I'll do that on the side while I'm waiting for this. And I woke up one day and I went. I got a marketing company. So that was that first pivot recognizing where my revenue was really coming from, recognizing what I was really good at and what people wanted to pay me for. So that was the first one Training people, training people, deciding when to expand, expanding too soon, not being able to pay myself because I hired one extra person oh yeah, you know they're all of those moments and learning that the more I let my team really see what was going on, the more they were in a position to help and the more they understood how things really worked.

Speaker 2:

I love that transparency. I think that's something that a lot of leaders need to keep in mind. You know, the old ad is never let them see a sweat. I mean, I guess that's a way to lead. I would argue it's not the most effective.

Speaker 3:

I think the idea that the entrepreneur does it alone is the one that ties to that. Never let them see a sweat. But the reality is whether it's an asking for help and I did a podcast episode on this earlier this year I'm not good at asking for help, you know. I like to be confident. I like people to think I've got it all under control. But when I got comfortable saying to my team look, this is not working and I need your help.

Speaker 3:

Or I got comfortable going to my friends and saying you know what you've always said, that you know if you could help me, you'd be happy to.

Speaker 3:

This is what I need, and learning to make specific asks, not just oh, if you can introduce me to, no, not introduce me to anybody. I know that you are connected to Bob Jones and I would like to meet Bob Jones. You know, I know that you specialize in working with this kind of business and this is what I have for them. I would like you to help with that, that kind of specific or something as as silly as I know you guys love me and I know that you may or may not want to hear my podcast every week, but please subscribe, because the more subscribers that sent those numbers send powerful signals to people who would be interested when they hear, when they see that higher subscription. Or I just launched a YouTube YouTube channel and I'm going to go back and do the same thing Subscribe to the channel. I don't care if you I mean, it's lovely if you do watch a video, but even if you don't, that sends a positive signal to other people.

Speaker 2:

And if you could go back and talk to Lorraine at 25 years old and you could say one thing, what would you say to yourself?

Speaker 3:

The thing I would probably say is trust your gut. There have been times and I mean, as I got older, I definitely learned the value of my intuition. But when I started out, there would be an offer whether it was an offer for a job or an offer for a, you know, an offer for a customer or a project something and I'd be like, oh well, that doesn't really sound great, I don't wanna do that, but the person is offering it to me. So I guess I should. And learning that, know that intuition or that sense that it's not that they're a bad people in the world no, they might be some. Most people are just not necessarily completely open about who they are or what their bottom line objective is and what they're really willing to do in a collaboration or a partnership. And so, trusting that sense that I have that you know what this person is not going to be there for something when I need that I think that would be what I would say is your instincts are good, trust them.

Speaker 2:

That's so good. Is there a book that has made a difference in your journey, something that you would recommend that anybody listen? I mean, if you can just put one book on your reading list right now, this is the one.

Speaker 3:

Made to Stick. Oh yeah, I used to say Thriving on Chaos by Peter Drucker, which I still think is a good and interesting book, but I think the storytelling and the way that they really talk about creating marketing messages and using stories to engage and really pull you in to the messages, I really like that.

Speaker 2:

Well, as we talk about on this today, if people walk away from this episode with one thing, what is the one thing you want to make sure they walk away with?

Speaker 3:

Other than they should listen to my podcast too.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. We're going to get there in just a second.

Speaker 3:

If there's one thing through all of this, I did what I loved and I'm still doing what I love, and it has given me the energy to put up with the ups and the downs and the chaos, because I really love what I was doing and I think that's really key. Life is just too short to be chasing a dollar instead of a dream.

Speaker 2:

That's so good. What a great bow to Todd on this episode. I know people are going to want to stay connected with you, Maureen. What's the best way for them to do that?

Speaker 3:

So two things. Number one LinkedIn that's where I hang out for my business, and if you just really want to hear more of this high-pitched New York nasal voice, look for more than a few words wherever you listen to podcasts.

Speaker 2:

I love that and when you find it, leave a review. Thank you, please do. That matters, and if you're listening to this show and you have not yet done that, I would greatly appreciate it if you would leave a rating and review here as well. Maureen, it has been such an honor to have you today. Thank you for your generosity and sharing so much insight and wisdom from your journey. This has been so helpful. I've just got a page full of notes here. Personally and I know our listeners will have the same Thank you.

Speaker 3:

This has been so so much fun. Thank you for the invite.

Speaker 2:

Thanks for joining me for this episode today. As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode, and if you find value here, I'd love it if you would rate it and review it. That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast. Second, if you don't have a copy of my newest book, catalytic Leadership, I'd love to put a copy in your hands. If you go to catalyticleadershipbookcom, you can get a copy for free. Just pay the shipping so I can get it to you and we'll get one right out.

Speaker 2:

My goal is to put this into the hands of as many leaders as possible. This book captures principles that I've learned in 20 plus years of coaching leaders in the entrepreneurial space, in business, government, nonprofits, education and the local church. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about. And if you're ready to take a next step with a coach to help you intentionally grow and thrive as a leader, I'd be honored to help you. Just go to catalyticleadershipnet to book a call with me. Stay tuned for our next episode next week. Until then, as always, leaders choose to be catalytic.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for listening to Catalytic Leadership with Dr William Adaway.

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